Calvinism is a Cult

[CoreIssue]

Your above is yet another of your lies.

I asked the question that you just dodged.

 

[Laish]

I have had to deal with knife and gun attacks as well as a veteran. So don't throw that out there as a defense.

You say you know you are saved? Jehovah witness, Catholics, Mormons and others claimed the same thing. So don't try to claim truth for yourself.

If you did not freewill repent in faith by grace to Christ you were not washed in his blood and born-again.

Hey core you just criticize others for saying that your not saved somthing I never did . Then you just told me I am not saved .
Well sir I still love you and will pray for you .but I have discovered that engagement with you on this topic brings out some more disheartening things. I have decided that it is best to withdraw and leave you alone that perhaps you may find some peace .
In continual prayer.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Enoch111]

Romans 9:20 in the above.

We cannot take this verse out of context to mean that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation. The context is the unbelief of the Jews versus the salvation of the Gentiles.

In this chapter we see that it is only God who decides as to whom He will be merciful and to whom He will not. BUT IT IS NOT ARBITRARY AT ALL.

1. Only those who are of believing Israel are saved, and those are the only ones on whom God has mercy (v 6)

2. Isaac was chosen over Ishmael because he was the child of promise through Sarah (v 9)

3. God elected Jacob over Isaac before he was born seeing that Jacob would be a man of faith while Esau would be a godless person (v 13)

4. Pharaoh was condemned to Hell because of his own hardness of heart which result in God eventually hardening his heart ( v 18)

5. God endures with much longsuffering those who are wicked and unbelieving, but eventually they face His wrath and eternal damnation (v 22). The world before the Flood had 120 years to repent.

6. The Gentiles -- who were not originally God's people -- have become His people by His mercy and grace (through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption) (v 26). Indeed they have become children of the living God.

7. These "vessels of mercy" have been predestined to be glorified, since those whom He justified He also glorified (v 23)

8. Of the Jews, only a believing remnant shall be saved, because the rest sought to establish their own righteousness through the works of the Law (v 31).

Throughout this entire chapter we see that without faith it is impossible to please God, and that faith (and repentance) are necessary in order to be saved. But we do not see God arbitrarily choosing some for salvation and others for damnation, or giving the *gift of faith* to some while ignoring others. As Scripture says, Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel), therefore Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to "every creature" so that all would be saved. BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@CoreIssue are you going to wake up to your false gospel now, or wait until the day of judgment?

 

[CoreIssue]

If you don't do this and this and this you are not a Christian. You tell others that they do not know they are saved because they don't place their trust in themselves. What a farse! You don't know repentance to God; you know acceptance of your own ability. You trust more in your own abilities than in the blood of Christ. Even in your above statement, you place yourself at the forefront of your conversion; I have to do this and this and this ..... oh yeah, and Christ's blood or something... but I have to do this and I have to do that.
And then you throw out the names of a few cults to distract from the blatant self salvation gospel you so prominently push, because you don't really feel secure unless everyone else around you is congratulating themselves as well.

That's not faith. That's self reliance and hording your trust because you can't trust anyone but yourself.

Faith in God is not trust in oneself.

It is not work and it is not process. It is a request recognizing only Christ can save me.

You are the ones trying to spend what I believe into work and self dependency.

You believe everyone is a puppet. Some will be marched into heaven and summoned to hell by the puppet master.

I feel very secure. You do not.

If you did you would not be on here trying to convince others you are right. It serves no purpose in your theology.

 

[Mjh29]

We cannot take this verse out of context to mean that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation. The context is the unbelief of the Jews versus the salvation of the Gentiles.

In this chapter we see that it is only God who decides as to whom He will be merciful and to whom He will not. BUT IT IS NOT ARBITRARY AT ALL.

1. Only those who are of believing Israel are saved, and those are the only ones on whom God has mercy (v 6)

2. Isaac was chosen over Ishmael because he was the child of promise through Sarah (v 9)

3. God elected Jacob over Isaac before he was born seeing that Jacob would be a man of faith while Esau would be a godless person (v 13)

4. Pharaoh was condemned to Hell because of his own hardness of heart which result in God eventually hardening his heart ( v 18)

5. God endures with much longsuffering those who are wicked and unbelieving, but eventually they face His wrath and eternal damnation (v 22). The world before the Flood had 120 years to repent.

6. The Gentiles -- who were not originally God's people -- have become His people by His mercy and grace (through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption) (v 26). Indeed they have become children of the living God.

7. These "vessels of mercy" have been predestined to be glorified, since those whom He justified He also glorified (v 23)

8. Of the Jews, only a believing remnant shall be saved, because the rest sought to establish their own righteousness through the works of the Law (v 31).

Throughout this entire chapter we see that without faith it is impossible to please God, and that faith (and repentance) are necessary in order to be saved. But we do not see God arbitrarily choosing some for salvation and others for damnation, or giving the *gift of faith* to some while ignoring others. As Scripture says, Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel), therefore Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to "every creature" so that all would be saved. BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL.

Romans 12:3 -- .... yes, God DOES chose whom will and will not have faith, though this choice is not arbitrary; He chooses some and not others because it brings Him glory to do so. He is concerned foremost with His glory. Believe it or not, God does not revolve around man.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not to defend the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but you don’t even get them right you seem to only go by what you hear from someone else who obviously haven’t looked to to that false religion. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe they are the 144000 . In fact they are so concerned about not having enough of that 144000 people that each time the do their version of the lords supper the count the participants.
Sense they believe only the 144000 can take the wine and bread .
They will tell you they haven’t had any one take it years
Read up . If you are in apposition of there beliefs know what they believe
Blessings
Bill

That is sure nonsense. More than 144,000 believe they are.

You do realize that the 144000 belief has existed from the beginning of their cult.

144,000 are the ones that will live in heaven. The rest live on the earth.

So obviously you don't know what it means.

Prior to 1935 they believed all of them would go to heaven

 

[CoreIssue]

@CoreIssue are you going to wake up to your false gospel now, or wait until the day of judgment?

What difference does it make for those who are not lottery winners?

 

[CoreIssue]

Romans 12:3 -- .... yes, God DOES chose whom will and will not have faith, though this choice is not arbitrary; He chooses some and not others because it brings Him glory to do so. He is concerned foremost with His glory. Believe it or not, God does not revolve around man.

Once again you declare it does not matter what we think or believe when it comes to salvation.

So go away, stop posting, and congratulate yourself for being a winner.

You have no purpose being on here posting.

 

[Mjh29]

Faith in God is not trust in oneself.

It is not work and it is not process. It is a request recognizing only Christ can save me.

You are the ones trying to spend what I believe into work and self dependency.

You believe everyone is a puppet. Some will be marched into heaven and summoned to hell by the puppet master.

I feel very secure. You do not.

If you did you would not be on here trying to convince others you are right. It serves no purpose in your theology.

I try to convince no one. If you truly felt secure, you would not feel the need to cling onto your own choice or to come back here and comment the same thing over and over without actually contributing anything other that slander and idle speculation with 0 reference to the Word of God.

I love how, because you are the god of your own salvation, you now think you can tell others whether or not they feel secure. I feel perfectly secure, in fact I know I am saved because the blood of Christ has washed me clean and opened my eyes. I feel secure because I know that none of my corrupt human and sin nature had anything to do with my conversion.

Please, if you are here merely because those who do not congratulate themselves make you feel uncomfortable, and unless you actually contribute something useful, don't expect me to take you seriously. I shall pray for you, that God would open your eyes to the truth.

 

[Mjh29]

Once again you declare it does not matter what we think or believe when it comes to salvation.

So go away, stop posting, and congratulate yourself for being a winner.

You have no purpose being on here posting.

 

[CoreIssue]

I try to convince no one. If you truly felt secure, you would not feel the need to cling onto your own choice or to come back here and comment the same thing over and over without actually contributing anything other that slander and idle speculation with 0 reference to the Word of God.

I love how, because you are the god of your own salvation, you now think you can tell others whether or not they feel secure. I feel perfectly secure, in fact I know I am saved because the blood of Christ has washed me clean and opened my eyes. I feel secure because I know that none of my corrupt human and sin nature had anything to do with my conversion.

Please, if you are here merely because those who do not congratulate themselves make you feel uncomfortable, and unless you actually contribute something useful, don't expect me to take you seriously. I shall pray for you, that God would open your eyes to the truth.

For someone not trying not to do something you're talking a lot.

Praying for me for what purpose?

 

[Mjh29]

For someone not trying not to do something you're talking a lot.

Praying for me for what purpose?

1.) You started this thread, openly calling me a cultist
2.) You slandered Reformed theology, continually bashing it.
3.) You come back every so often to through out your Scripture-less slander and rants, providing fact-less conjecture
4.) If we say nothing, you cry victory. If we speak up, you say "Wow, you sure are saying alot." Nice double standard.

I am praying for your soul, because anyone willing to slander and mock and ridicule those who do nothing but try and show forth the Scriptures and refuse to pat their own backs need prayer

 

[Vince]

Hey Vince
The fact that Christians disagree on some topic or another points to the fact of man being a fallen creature more than any fault in our faith as Christians or the existence of God. You can look any where man gathers to discuss any topic there you will find disagreements it’s our nature.

I am not disputing this. I am asking why god would allow such variations in salvation theology since it is such a serious thing to get right.

Take the many different scientific areas of study you can see several different circles and observe discord .

Sure but science has a method and system for coming to the truth and consensus, religion does not.

Dose the understanding of the nature of salvation affect one’s salvation? No as long as the beliefs don’t ascribe any attributes of God to man or something in creation or diminish God’s attributes in any way as described in Scripture.

I would say so. Some say no repentance is required some say it is. The bible seems to be unclear on this. So if it is and someone does not repent then they are not saved. So how a person believes they are saved is of most importance.

I have several friends that disagree with me on how salvation works are the saved? ( truly only God knows ) I believe many are . Why? they like many others they prefer to dwell on the finished work of Christ Jesus . That’s what counts.
It’s when you tamper with who God is as shown in the Scriptures is where you run aground. .
As for the Gospel it’s the Life Death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ end of story. How the sharing of Gospel is done , well that’s up to the Holy Spirit and who is sharing. What counts is the life death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
As for the picking what is the right one . Well as a former atheist I was picked and did not do the picking . If I did the picking I would have not of chosen Christ.
Blessings
Bill

This is fine but then you cannot blame atheists for not believing. Not saying you do but some here do.

 

[CoreIssue]

View attachment 5607

1.) You started this thread, openly calling me a cultist
2.) You slandered Reformed theology, continually bashing it.
3.) You come back every so often to through out your Scripture-less slander and rants, providing fact-less conjecture
4.) If we say nothing, you cry victory. If we speak up, you say "Wow, you sure are saying alot." Nice double standard.

I am praying for your soul, because anyone willing to slander and mock and ridicule those who do nothing but try and show forth the Scriptures and refuse to pat their own backs need prayer

I called your cultist because you are occultist.

You better look up the definition of slander before you throw that around so loosely.

Legally speaking I have not slander, I have simply stated my belief and opinion.

You have not suffered any material damage.

By your beliefs if you say nothing it changes nothing.

 

[Laish]

I am not disputing this. I am asking why god would allow such variations in salvation theology since it is such a serious thing to get right.

Sure but science has a method and system for coming to the truth and consensus, religion does not.

I would say so. Some say no repentance is required some say it is. The bible seems to be unclear on this. So if it is and someone does not repent then they are not saved. So how a person believes they are saved is of most importance.


This is fine but then you cannot blame atheists for not believing. Not saying you do but some here do.

Hey Vince
Thanks for the thoughtful reply but I don’t believe this thread is a good choice for this discussion.
I don’t want to sidetrack this most wonderful and beautiful discussion here lol .
If you like I can address it elsewhere in a different thread that you or I could start .
Even perhaps in a pm either way I will answer ya . Give me a few I am on a iPad so typing is limited and as the grammar police have noted I can’t type well to start with . Back at you in a bit . ( got the youngest to get at school and a car to wash) see you in a bit .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hey core you just criticize others for saying that your not saved somthing I never did . Then you just told me I am not saved .
Well sir I still love you and will pray for you .but I have discovered that engagement with you on this topic brings out some more disheartening things. I have decided that it is best to withdraw and leave you alone that perhaps you may find some peace .
In continual prayer.
Blessings
Bill

It's ironic. His OP basically says we're lost by implication. Secondly, no one has stated he's lost. Now, he should act converted. What I mean by that is a gentle rebuke that he should end offering up lies.

 

[CoreIssue]

It's ironic. His OP basically says we're lost by implication. Secondly, no one has stated he's lost. Now, he should act converted. What I mean by that is a gentle rebuke that he should end offering up lies.

Fact remains the same. By your theology this is all a waste of time and you are still condemning some people to hell based on a divine lottery.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I am not disputing this. I am asking why god would allow such variations in salvation theology since it is such a serious thing to get right.

That is why God enjoins us to read His Word under the tutelage of His Holy Spirit. 1 John 2:27--> "But you have received the Holy Spirit and He lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the [Holy] Spirit teaches you everything you need to know and what He teaches is true..."

We know from the New Testament that there are some who do not have the Holy Spirit driving their study of the word of God. In Acts 8:30, the Apostle Philip, under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, approached the Ethiopian Eunuch, who had been in Jerusalem to worship at the Temple. Philip notices that the Eunuch is reading from an Isaiah scroll and asks, "Do you know what you are reading?" The Eunuch replies, "How can I, unless someone instructs me?" The Eunuch had been reading aloud from Isaiah 53 and Philip begins his Gospel presentation with an explanation of Who is being spoken of in Isaiah 53 (written 700 years before the birth of Jesus). The Eunuch became a believer and asked Philip to baptize him in the stream on the spot where the Eunuch ordered his carriage to stop. We presume that the Eunuch was a true believer because Philip had been directed to him by the Holy Spirit. But there are those who are not true believers and thus are not being guided by the Holy Spirit in their study of the word. (see Romans 8:9) Others are true believers but they are blinded by their need to be right in their own estimation rather than God being right under all circumstances. The Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:19--->"But of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God's approval [for proper teaching] will be recognized."

Sure but science has a method and system for coming to the truth and consensus, religion does not.

Look up the Council of Jerusalem. Religion makes its decisions on the basis of what it wants to be true. Faith decides what is true under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is a vast difference between religion and faith.

 

[Enoch111]

Romans 12:3 -- .... yes, God DOES chose whom will and will not have faith, though this choice is not arbitrary; He chooses some and not others because it brings Him glory to do so. He is concerned foremost with His glory. Believe it or not, God does not revolve around man.

Again you have taken another verse out of context to support you UNSCRIPTURAL doctrines.

So lets see (1) to whom Romans 12:3 is addressed, (2) what is the context, and (3) what are the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit which included faith.

1. To whom Romans 12:3 is addressed -- I beseech you therefore, brethren... So it is addressed to Christian brothers and sisters, not to the unsaved and the lost.

2. What is the context -- your reasonable service -- Christians serve God by faith.

3. So here is what Christians must do -- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
The *measure of faith* relates to either (a) the spiritual gift or (b) the fruit of the Spirit.

3. Is faith a spiritual gift to those who are already saved? Absolutely.
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit (1 Cor 12:9)

4. Is faith a fruit of the Spirit to those who are already saved? Absolutely.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith... (Gal 5:22)

However SAVING FAITH IS GENERATED BY THE GOSPEL to all men by the power of the Holy Spirit while hearing or reading the Gospel:

ROMANS 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.