Where is the New Jerusalem?

[CoreIssue]

Every conversion calculator will show 12000 furlongs = 1500 miles. You are off by a long shot.

Furlongs to Miles
(fur to mi)
Conversion
This converter provides conversion of furlongs to miles (fur to mi) and backwards.
Result: 1500 miles
Furlongs to Miles (fur to mi) Conversion

NASB Lexicon (Bible Hub)
fifteen hundred miles; σταδίων (stadiōn) 4712: a stadium (a Gr. measure of length), by impl. a racecourse

But the word is not furlong.

That is a measure of old English origin.

Just like Easter is not of biblical origin.

 

[Enoch111]

But the word is not furlong.That is a measure of old English origin.

So what? The Greek word stadion has been accepted as equivalent to a furlong, and that is why I quoted from the NASB lexicon on Bible Hub (which you should have checked before raising this objection).

Strong's Concordance
stadion: a stadium (a Gr. measure of length), by impl. a racecourse
Original Word: στάδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stadion
Phonetic Spelling: (stad'-ee-on)
Definition: a stadium (a Greek measure of length), by implication a racecourse
Usage: (a) a stadium, one eighth of a Roman mile, (b) a race-course for public games.

They would not have accepted the equivalency if there was any doubt whatsoever. And commentators have all accepted this.

John Gill
"And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs; or fifteen hundred miles; a monstrously large city indeed!..."

So, another attempt to put down the KJV needlessly. Time to wake up.

 

[CoreIssue]

So what? The Greek word stadion has been accepted as equivalent to a furlong, and that is why I quoted from the NASB lexicon on Bible Hub (which you should have checked before raising this objection).

Strong's Concordance
stadion: a stadium (a Gr. measure of length), by impl. a racecourse
Original Word: στάδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stadion
Phonetic Spelling: (stad'-ee-on)
Definition: a stadium (a Greek measure of length), by implication a racecourse
Usage: (a) a stadium, one eighth of a Roman mile, (b) a race-course for public games.

They would not have accepted the equivalency if there was any doubt whatsoever. And commentators have all accepted this.

John Gill
"And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs; or fifteen hundred miles; a monstrously large city indeed!..."

So, another attempt to put down the KJV needlessly. Time to wake up.

The definition does not equate them.

Stadiums and racecourses have been around for thousands of years.

There are commentators that accept Roman Catholicism as well. That does not make them right.

John Gill was a Calvinist.

Ancient Greek units of measurement - Wikipedia
No furlong.

I did not mention the KJV. My focus was the measurement.

Revelation 21:16 The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal--12,000 stadia in length and width and height.
9 say furlong All Textus Receptus based
19 say stadia
1 say 1,400 - stadia
0 say 1,500 - furlong

 

[brakelite]

What is spiritual death?

I am not going to bother reading that link as I am 100% positive it will be predicated on the false assumption that spirits/souls are immortal and have a 'being' separate from the body, which is Platonic and pagan.

 

[CoreIssue]

I am not going to bother reading that link as I am 100% positive it will be predicated on the false assumption that spirits/souls are immortal and have a 'being' separate from the body, which is Platonic and pagan.

Annihilation is JW and SDA.

 

[brakelite]

Annihilation is JW and SDA.

And Biblical. Although I would prefer another word. Perhaps one with less baggage and assuming less emotional attachments. Such as ummm….death?

 

[CoreIssue]

And Biblical. Although I would prefer another word. Perhaps one with less baggage and assuming less emotional attachments. Such as ummm….death?

First death when the flesh dies. Second is eternal separation from God.

Adam and Eve were told if they ate the fruit they would die. But how you define it they did not.

 

[Enoch111]

And Biblical. Although I would prefer another word. Perhaps one with less baggage and assuming less emotional attachments. Such as ummm….death?

Except that death means anything other than annihilation.

1. Physical death = SEPARATION of the body from the soul an spirit.
2. The second death = SEPARATION from God eternally in the Lake of Fire.

Souls and spirits are IMPERISHABLE. Therefore Annihilationism is false. Eternal conscious torment for the unsaved is clearly taught by Christ and the apostles. The Millerites in 19th century began promoting this unbiblical doctrine, and the Seventh Day Adventists (an offshoot of the Millerites) held on to this belief. But Christ warned sinners again and again about the eternal torments of Hell. It is significant that the cults -- JWs, Christadelphians, and Armstrongites -- hold to this doctrine.

Here is an article which shows why this doctrine in not biblical.
Is annihilationism biblical?
Is annihilationism biblical?

 

[brakelite]

Second is eternal separation from God.

Second "death" is not death if folk are alive...and if they're alive, they ain't separated.

But how you define it they did not

Yes, they did. Only the devil said they wouldn't. Who's the liar? He who said "Thou shalt die", which they did...or the one who said "thou shalt surely not die"...which they did not. Why do you believe the serpent ?

 

[brakelite]

Souls and spirits are IMPERISHABLE

On whose authority? Please...just one Bible verse that states that the spirit or soul, in the sense that you give it being an entity that has emotions and can make personal choices, is immortal. Just one. Or perhaps a good sound exegetical reason why I should believe that when God said to Adam, "if you eat, you shall die" God was only speaking of the body. Or perhaps you could explain why God is NOT the only immortal Spirit?

 

[brakelite]

Sorry @Enoch111 but to claim the Millerites were the first to promote the death (literal) of the wicked as the punishment for sin, and that Jesus "clearly" taught eternal torment, is a loonnggg stretch. The entire Bible speaks of the death of the wicked...that without a resurrection, they remain totally and completely without any awareness of life or reality.
Life and death are complete opposites. (Deut.30) When the word of God speaks of death as a direct result of sin, it is referring to an eternal everlasting death (everlasting punishment) from which there is no rescue, no resurrection, no hope, and most significantly no life, anywhere, anytime. Death is the complete absence of life. It is an utter cessation of existence. Life and death are qualities that are mutually exclusive.
The only hope of man is the direct, creative, miraculous intervention of God through the resurrection. This hope and promise was what motivated the apostles and was the central theme in most of their discourses...as well as our Lord's also.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The current doctrine, now accepted by the majority of Christendom and taught no where in scripture, that all that die go ont to some "after-life" has laid the foundation for modern spiritualism, which in turn is a revival of ancient witchcraft and necromancy.
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
If Christians accepted God's word that "the dead know not anything" (Eccl.9:5,6) the world through true teaching would have better understanding of how to treat the supernatural...there would be no confusion as to the identity of 'ghosts, ghouls, spirits, aliens etc".
Eternal life comes only to those who accept the gospel. Without Christ, all perish. They die. And they stay dead. And that "Got Questions" site? Did you read what it said before you posted a link to it? Did you read that someone in heaven who loses a child to "hell", will have no feelings of sympathy or compassion for their child even though they shall suffer for all eternity...because Jesus wipes away all tears!!! And that site has the temerity to claim that "annihinationalists" have no understanding of the character of God!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

I was trying to be funny . . . I should never do that.

oh ha dunno about that, but I mean it is YHWH after all

 

[bbyrd009]

Now that was deep, a word often found in the OT which people often avoid.



That was also deep and needed google to explain what you were hinting at. A cube containing great powers. Seems like you read a lot of comic books as a child.

ha actually a tesseract is prolly a pretty good symbol for our understanding of Tetragram I guess, "God of the vowel people" has been hidden, and we get it as YHWH rather than like AEOU.

So imo tesseract is a good joke!

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Am I missing something here ?
I thought Eternal life is a gift to live forever.

 

[bbyrd009]

I always figured the New Jerusalem would be about like the moon place into an egg-cuber.

We grow up with the concept of "cities" so we don't think about it any, but a city is at best a blight on the landscape, a scab basically--more like an open wound I guess--that is not sustainable and must be maintained, as we are learning now with our 100+ year old infrastructure.

Anyway the point is we have like stars in our eyes where cities are concerned, and easily read of a literal place @ New Jerusalem that comports with our desire for Death More Abundantly, we allow our scribes to write "miles" and "squares" and etc and we read that bc that is what we seek I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Am I missing something here ?
I thought Eternal life is a gift to live forever.

well wadr any Bible can clarify the def of "Eternal" whenever you go look though ok, although a Word Studies or Strong's does clarify it a little. We are taught that Eternal is a gift to live forever bc that is what we seek, isn't it? We seek Apollos and Hermes, and glide over their mention in Scripture, etc.

Fwiw you can google "Mithraism and Christianity" for more, google will even auto-complete that search about the time you get "and" typed in. Or if you prefer the Rome thread pretty much lays it out, Mithraism descended to the Cult of Sol Invictus, and Constantine married that with Christianity, goes the, um, I'd say "theory" but I'm not aware of any valid rebuttals

If you develop one I would be interested in hearing it though. "The virgin will be with child" is a pretty obvious ref to Athena--or I'll say that Jesus' contemporaries would almost surely have heard it that way--and Virgin Worship, but I'm not real clear yet on how Cult of Sol and Athena worship regarded each other then, although I guess it is apparent that Rome prevailed, at least until they imploded.

One might think that blowback alone would cause a resurgence of Athena worship but aside from some very minor examples that doesn't seem to be the case, I guess bc the child was born? But they would not have gone by "Christian" then, as "at Antioch" even makes clear, I guess Christian right then meant "someone who seeks a restoration of the Davidic Dynasty" to the literal throne. Prolly Yahwist or something?

 

[Willie T]

We grow up with the concept of "cities" so we don't think about it any, but a city is at best a blight on the landscape, a scab basically--more like an open wound I guess--that is not sustainable and must be maintained, as we are learning now with our 100+ year old infrastructure.

Anyway the point is we have like stars in our eyes where cities are concerned, and easily read of a literal place @ New Jerusalem that comports with our desire for Death More Abundantly, we allow our scribes to write "miles" and "squares" and etc and we read that bc that is what we seek I guess

"Yes"! Like the description of all the building materials. It often sounds as garish and gaudy as Trump's horribly decorated apartment. LOL

 

[Waiting on him]

"Yes"! Like the description of all the building materials. It often sounds as garish and gaudy as Trump's horribly decorated apartment. LOL

It’s walls are salvation and her gates are praise

 

[CoreIssue]

"Yes"! Like the description of all the building materials. It often sounds as garish and gaudy as Trump's horribly decorated apartment. LOL

Your personal opinion on the NJ.

 

[Willie T]

It’s walls are salvation and her gates are praise

"No", not for the "Literalists" among us. They are looking for structures made from the stones and minerals of the Earth.. and even from the gastric deposits of oysters.