The Coming Great Apostasy

[CoreIssue]

Read your Bible with open eyes. It says that the God of the OT Who wrote His law in stone would come to Earth and speak in parable and Matthew says that God Who came to do so was CHRIST JESUS, the God of the OT.

 

[mjrhealth]

Wait, you don't believe the God of the OT is Jesus? Even though the God of the OT is the Shepherd, Jesus says He's the Shepherd and John 11:16 says there's only ONE Shepherd?

Or that David said God is my Judge, Paul says we will stand before the Judgment seat of Jesus, and Jesus Himself said there's only "one that seeketh and Judgeth"?

Or that David said God is the Rock, Paul said that Rock was Christ, and in the same book of Psalm, the writer says the Lord ONLY is the Rock?

I can keep going if you're not yet convinced...

No HE is not Jesus is His Word or have you not read,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God wasnt made flesh, His word was.

and again

Mat_20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

or again

Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
yes I can too go on as for that rock

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

that one is revelation which so few seem to desire.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[CoreIssue]

No HE is not Jesus is His Word or have you not read,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God wasnt made flesh, His word was.

and again

Mat_20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

or again

Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
yes I can too go on as for that rock

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

that one is revelation which so few seem to desire.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Word and word. Word is logos and word is the written word.

Logos is the second person of the Trinity.

 

[mjrhealth]

Did Jesus give us the Ten Commandments? Oh, why yes, He did, as this one example of many irrefutably proves this.

He said He didnt Moses did,

Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Joh_7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

oh thats right you get angry at us because you we dont keep the sabbath as you do. I guess you must than be angry at Jesus for doing good work on teh sabbath too.

 

[Earburner]

Ever heard of the Unpardonable Sin? It's any sin of which we fail to repent and that failure is always a direct result of the Holy Spirit's voice being heard no more through our repeated refusal to heed His promptings.

If you think searing the conscience has nothing to do with this when it is by that very conscience the Lord speaks to us through His Spirit, then friend, you're like a drunk man walking through a field of landmines blindfolded and dressed in clown shoes.

FALSE TEACHING 100%
Do yourself one big favor and correct yourself, by reading and then STUDYING Heb. 10:26-31 with the Lord's Mind/thoughts and NOT your own!!
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
> To sin willfully, is not to do that which is common among men, but rather to DESPISE the Blood of Christ whereby ONE WAS SANCTIFIED!!
Sinners who DO NOT come to Christ, are NEVER sanctified prior to belief/faith!!

> Unsaved people have always the Lord's forgiveness waiting for them, but only as long as they have breath. However to believe in Christ and receive the knowledge of the truth (His Holy Spirit), and then later in life REJECT Him, there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins.
Forgiveness through Christ is no longer available, for them who despise the Blood of Christ, wherewith they WERE ONCE sanctified.
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he WAS [past tense] sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge HIS people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
> NO ONE, who is unsaved, is the Lord's people!!
Rom. 8:9

 

[Phoneman777]

No HE is not Jesus is His Word or have you not read,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God wasnt made flesh, His word was.

and again

Mat_20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

or again

Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
yes I can too go on as for that rock

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

that one is revelation which so few seem to desire.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

"Before Abraham was, I AM".

 

[Phoneman777]

He said He didnt Moses did,

Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Joh_7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

oh thats right you get angry at us because you we dont keep the sabbath as you do. I guess you must than be angry at Jesus for doing good work on teh sabbath too.

Where did Moses get them from? Jesus, of course.

 

[Phoneman777]

FALSE TEACHING 100%
Do yourself one big favor and correct yourself, by reading and then STUDYING Heb. 10:26-31 with the Lord's Mind/thoughts and NOT your own!!
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
> To sin willfully, is not to do that which is common among men, but rather to DESPISE the Blood of Christ whereby ONE WAS SANCTIFIED!!
Sinners who DO NOT come to Christ, are NEVER sanctified prior to belief/faith!!

> Unsaved people have always the Lord's forgiveness waiting for them, but only as long as they have breath. However to believe in Christ and receive the knowledge of the truth (His Holy Spirit), and then later in life REJECT Him, there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins.
Forgiveness through Christ is no longer available, for them who despise the Blood of Christ, wherewith they WERE ONCE sanctified.
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he WAS [past tense] sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge HIS people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
> NO ONE, who is unsaved, is the Lord's people!!
Rom. 8:9

Sorry, but he Unpardonable Sin is any sin for which we fail to seek pardon. How can God pardon someone who doesn't ask for pardon?

 

[mjrhealth]

Where did Moses get them from? Jesus, of course.

Actually the finger of God, read the bible... Now if Jesus though it was so important HE would of said, "did Not I give you the law so why do you disobey it", but He didnt. And yet here you call us all sinners while you daily break the law and condemn yourself, that is foolishness.

 

[mjrhealth]

"Before Abraham was, I AM".

Because His word has always existed, since God was His word was. Still trying to justify a lie and yet you still and have a go at BOL. That BEAM in your eye is getting bigger every day. Noe I have to stop answering you as you have sinned against God enough.

 

[bbyrd009]

No doubt the U.S. is engaging in human rights violations in order to step up the NWO agenda end game. But do we really need to stick our hand through the gate to see if a growling, vicious looking pit bull will bite it off? Islamic authoritative works command the three stages of Jihad: Stealth, Defensive, and Offensive where ever Muslim settlements are established. We have no-go zones in Dearborn, Michigan. The only weapons the Amish are credited with building are those fancy wrought iron room heaters which overpower anyone near them with the urge to take a nice, relaxing nap.

yet once they were just as persecuted I guess, almost wiped out even. But I mean don't get me wrong I think mixing nations is insane, especially importing ppl from nations you have occupied? It's mixing beta fish to me

 

[Earburner]

Sorry, but he Unpardonable Sin is any sin for which we fail to seek pardon. How can God pardon someone who doesn't ask for pardon?

Listen CLOSELY to what Jesus said:
Mat. 12[31] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
[32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
> People who DO NOT come to Jesus through faith, do not and cannot know who the Holy Spirit is.
Therefore, as John 3:18 says, all of such "are condemned (lost) ALREADY."
No person, who has NOT believed in Jesus, can be condemned twice!!

However, if one HAS believed in Jesus, and were baptized by water and by the Holy Spirit (born again), and THEN reject Him (the Holy Spirit), there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice, through the Blood of Jesus, for reason of committing that ONE SIN.
Whereas they were once "PARTAKERS of the divine nature", but have purposely rejected the covenant of His Blood wherewith they WERE ONCE sanctified,
The sacrifice of Christ is no longer made available to them again.

 

[Earburner]

Sorry, but he Unpardonable Sin is any sin for which we fail to seek pardon. How can God pardon someone who doesn't ask for pardon?

Then you will be on your knees night and day, seeking forgiveness for committing adultery in your heart! Best wishes on that!
.
Think on this: all our sins, that are common to men are premeditated!
Only people who have the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9) are able to commit the unpardonable sin, and that is they reject Him, after having received Him, and were made PARTAKERS of the divine nature, who IS CHRIST!
Get your head straight on this! You do not know what you are talking about, and therefore are leading others astray!

 

[Copperhead]

Sorry, but he Unpardonable Sin is any sin for which we fail to seek pardon. How can God pardon someone who doesn't ask for pardon?

I wouldn't buy that. I am convinced that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the rejection of the testimony of the Holy Spirit of who Yeshua is. And that is anyone who rejects Yeshua.

And using your reasoning, then hardly anyone is saved except those that have a leisurely time of dying and can contemplate their life. How many die in such a way that they neither had the time to seek pardon or remembering a sin to seek pardon of?

Yeshua said that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That is because the HS main role is testimony is of Yeshua is. The context of the response of Yeshua in this passage is when the Pharisees were talking among themselves that Yeshua was demonic.

Matthew 12:31-32 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”

So many live in irrational fear of committing that unpardonable sin. If they worry about committing it, then they probably haven't. Only those who reject who Yeshua is have committed it.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

 

[Earburner]

Amen!!!

 

[Earburner]

I wouldn't buy that. I am convinced that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the rejection of the testimony of the Holy Spirit of who Yeshua is. And that is anyone who rejects Yeshua.

And using your reasoning, then hardly anyone is saved except those that have a leisurely time of dying and can contemplate their life. How many die in such a way that they neither had the time to seek pardon or remembering a sin to seek pardon of?

Yeshua said that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That is because the HS main role is testimony is of Yeshua is. The context of the response of Yeshua in this passage is when the Pharisees were talking among themselves that Yeshua was demonic.

Matthew 12:31-32 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”

So many live in irrational fear of committing that unpardonable sin. If they worry about committing it, then they probably haven't. Only those who reject who Yeshua is have committed it.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Amen!!

 

[4Jesus]

Apostle Paul was one of those disobedient Jews following the "synagogue of Satan". That shows how our brethren of the house of Judah can be deceived into working with the "synagogue of Satan" while in their hearts they truly love our Heavenly Father. This is why Zechariah 12:10-14 shows they will mourn for our Lord Jesus when He returns. So we shouldn't confuse all Jews as being of the "synagogue of Satan" when those who really are serve Satan 'knowingly' and like brute beasts made to be destroyed.

To me, the Jews who don't "knowingly" serve satan, still reject Jesus (those that aren't Messianic Jews of course). Thus are anti-christ, and by default, are of satan (even if not purposefully serving him). They aren't really serving God-the-Father either (not disagreeing they don't love him however), or else the sacrificial system from the OT would still be occurring for atonement of sins - they aren't even doing that. They are preparing to reinstate the old system now with the search for a red heifer taking place.

In addition, today's Messianic Jews accept Jesus as Messiah, and would not be a part of the "synagogue of satan"

For the Zechariah 12:10-14 verses, I think that shows that some of the Jews will convert and accept Jesus as their Messiah, and will mourn that they once rejected him and were wrong. Further along in chapter 13, verse 8-9 states that not all will accept Jesus: "8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

Then they will be one in Christ Jesus, the Messiah. Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

 

[Copperhead]

To me, the Jews who don't "knowingly" serve satan, still reject Jesus (those that aren't Messianic Jews of course). Thus are anti-christ, and by default, are of satan (even if not purposefully serving him). They aren't really serving God-the-Father either (not disagreeing they don't love him however), or else the sacrificial system from the OT would still be occurring for atonement of sins - they aren't even doing that. They are preparing to reinstate the old system now with the search for a red heifer taking place.

In addition, today's Messianic Jews accept Jesus as Messiah, and would not be a part of the "synagogue of satan"

For the Zechariah 12:10-14 verses, I think that shows that some of the Jews will convert and accept Jesus as their Messiah, and will mourn that they once rejected him and were wrong. Further along in chapter 13, verse 8-9 states that not all will accept Jesus: "8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

Then they will be one in Christ Jesus, the Messiah. Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

But to take that further, the physical Hebrews who are not part of the Body of Messiah still have a purpose. The majority of Hebrews, more to the point the Hebrew religious leadership, still has a task to complete BEFORE Yeshua will return. Hosea 5:14-15 is quite clear that Jacob (both Judah and Israel) must acknowledge the offense of rejecting Yeshua and He will not return till that happens. And Yeshua affirmed that in Matthew 23:37-29.

The disciples wondered if the time was right for the Lord to restore the kingdom to Israel. Yeshua did not chastise the question, but told His disciples that it was up to the Father regarding those times. Not that it wouldn't happen. The disciples knew the promises in the Tanakh. Their assumptions were correct, their timing was not.

I am actually more convinced than ever that the "those who claim to be Jews but are not" / "synagogue of Satan" has replacement theology more in view than anything else.

 

[4Jesus]

But to take that further, the physical Hebrews who are not part of the Body of Messiah still have a purpose. The majority of Hebrews, more to the point the Hebrew religious leadership, still has a task to complete BEFORE Yeshua will return. Hosea 5:14-15 is quite clear that Jacob (both Judah and Israel) must acknowledge the offense of rejecting Yeshua and He will not return till that happens. And Yeshua affirmed that in Matthew 23:37-29.

The disciples wondered if the time was right for the Lord to restore the kingdom to Israel. Yeshua did not chastise the question, but told His disciples that it was up to the Father regarding those times. Not that it wouldn't happen. The disciples knew the promises in the Tanakh. Their assumptions were correct, their timing was not.

I am actually more convinced than ever that the "those who claim to be Jews but are not" / "synagogue of Satan" has replacement theology more in view than anything else.

To me, their purpose now, is God-the-Father's redemption plan for them - to bring them back from idolizing foreign gods (and by default, satan) and rejecting the final atonement for their sins in the new covenant, which is accepting Jesus as Messiah. Therefore, not really a task for them to complete; it is God-the-Father's plan of redeeming them, some can and will reject the plan.

How is God-the-Father going to bring them back and accept Jesus? I believe it's all tied to bridging Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation prophecies: basically, give them what they are looking for in a savior here on earth (since they rejected Jesus and are still looking for the OT promised Messiah), albeit a false messiah, who in reality, hates them. Begin to setup the sacrifical system again (current search for the red heifer), and rebuild the physical temple (3rd temple - The Temple Institute: Detailed Blueprints for the Holy Temple: The Chamber of Hewn Stone) which the beast eventually defiles. The beast/antichrist deceives them and breaks his covenant with them, and begins to kill them, obviously signaling he is not for them nor is their messiah. Some (hopefully all) of the jews who remain will then turn back to God-the-Father and accept God-the-Son to save them from satan (concluding with the battle of Armageddon in which Jesus returns to destroy them) and a future in Hell/Lake of Fire for unwashed sins.

 

[Copperhead]

To me, their purpose now, is God-the-Father's redemption plan for them - to bring them back from idolizing foreign gods (and by default, satan) and rejecting the final atonement for their sins in the new covenant, which is accepting Jesus as Messiah. Therefore, not really a task for them to complete; it is God-the-Father's plan of redeeming them, some can and will reject the plan.

How is God-the-Father going to bring them back and accept Jesus? I believe it's all tied to bridging Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation prophecies: basically, give them what they are looking for in a savior here on earth (since they rejected Jesus and are still looking for the OT promised Messiah), albeit a false messiah, who in reality, hates them. Begin to setup the sacrifical system again (current search for the red heifer), and rebuild the physical temple (3rd temple - The Temple Institute: Detailed Blueprints for the Holy Temple: The Chamber of Hewn Stone) which the beast eventually defiles. The beast/antichrist deceives them and breaks his covenant with them, and begins to kill them, obviously signaling he is not for them nor is their messiah. Some (hopefully all) of the jews who remain will then turn back to God-the-Father and accept God-the-Son to save them from satan (concluding with the battle of Armageddon in which Jesus returns to destroy them) and a future in Hell/Lake of Fire for unwashed sins.

We are really not that far apart. I think we agree on many points, just maybe a issue of semantics on the wording. The primary focus of the GT period is to drive the Hebrew people to the point where there is no hope left but to call out to the Lord, specifically Yeshua for their salvation. I do still hold that Yeshua made a solid condition that His return is contingent upon the religious leadership turning to Him, acknowledging their offense of rejection, and petitioning for his return before He will return. Those go hand in hand.

Hosea 5:14-15 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim (Israel),
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Matthew 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”