Calvinism is a Cult

[Mjh29]

I think that you are still failing to understand what the word through means. This is definitely a lack of reading comprehension on your part.

And the definition of the word 'through' will help unjumble this mess.... how? I think the problem is not my comprehension of a word, but rather your comprehension of a verse in its proper context.

I would venture to say, using your own tactics against you (since turnabout is fair play) that this verse is taken out of context.

Oh, trust me; I'm more than willing to get into Romans 9. If you insist.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Oh, that would be Romans 9:19, yep. None can resist the power of God.

Romans 9:19 is about Israel. Paul doesn't get to Gentile believers until later in the chapter--in verse 25. God did harden Israel's heart temporarily. (Romans 11:7) but Romans 11 is all about the redemption of Israel at the End.

 

[Mjh29]

Romans 9:19 is about Israel. Paul doesn't get to Gentile believers until later in the chapter--in verse 25. God did harden Israel's heart temporarily. (Romans 11:7) but Romans 11 is all about the redemption of Israel at the End.

So.... everyone else BUT Israel can resist the will of God?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I would venture to say, using your own tactics against you (since turnabout is fair play) that this verse is taken out of context.

Yes, the context is that Paul was speaking about Israel.

 

[justbyfaith]

And the definition of the word 'through' will help unjumble this mess.... how? I think the problem is not my comprehension of a word, but rather your comprehension of a verse in its proper context.



Oh, trust me; I'm more than willing to get into Romans 9. If you insist.

Both Romans 5:2 and Ephesians 2:8-9 together show clearly that faith precedes grace in salvation.

However, there is a certain factor involved that is preventing certain people from seeing this:

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Act 28:26, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So.... everyone else BUT Israel can resist the will of God?

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that God threw the banquet open to just anyone when the "invited guests" made excuses to avoid attending. (see Luke 14:16-24) Jesus was indicating that the "invited guests" were Judah/Israel and when they were too "busy" with the cares and worries of this world, the host of the banquet was furious and told his servant to invite just anyone--sinners and Gentiles. The host of the banquet then said about those invited guests who had refused to come "...none of those I first invited will get even the smallest taste of my banquet." What applies to the Jews/Israel does not necessarily apply to Gentiles.

 

[Jun2u]

Regardless of your arguments against it, Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

Please don’t put words in my mouth! I’ve never argued against what Jesus told Nicodemus. I merely replied to your flawed understanding of John 1:12; Revelation 3:20; and Revelation 22:17.

How is a man born again if not through placing his faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for him on the Cross?

If a man has faith, why does he need to exercise it? Fact is according to Ephesians 2:8 faith is a gift and whether you have knowledge of it or not, believe and faith is a “work” (which I believe it is) that man performs, therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

(I am sincerely asking you this question; please answer this according to your theology)

You may be sincere in your questions but dishonorable in intent.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

Fact is according to Ephesians 2:8 faith is a gift and whether you have knowledge of it or not, believe and faith is a “work” (which I believe it is) that man performs, therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

1. Ephesians 2:8 is NOT teaching that faith is a gift. Salvation ("ye are saved") is the GIFT, and this corresponds to Romans 6:23, where eternal life is the gift, and Acts 2:8 where the Holy Spirit is the gift (all of which constitute salvation).

The only reason that some call faith a gift in that verse is because they deny that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). They do not believe that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe (Rom 1:16) when accompanied by the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit.

2. Faith cannot be a "work" since faith is simply believing and trusting God and Christ, and the record that God has given unto us regarding His Son. Putting our faith in Christ and His perfect finished work of redemption. Indeed Paul contrasts saving faith and works in Romans 4.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [corresponding to Eph 2:9]
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

If a man has faith, why does he need to exercise it? Fact is according to Ephesians 2:8 faith is a gift and whether you have knowledge of it or not, believe and faith is a “work” (which I believe it is) that man performs, therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

You have not answered my question.

How is a man born again according to your theology if not through placing one's faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for us on the Cross?

I am curious to know the answer.
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Also, Ephesians 2:8-9 shows clearly that faith is not a work; since we are saved by faith but salvation is not of works in the very next verse. If faith is a work, then we are not saved by it according to Ephesians 2:9. And yet we are saved by it according to Ephesians 2:8. Therefore faith is not a work.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Please don’t put words in my mouth!

Seems their only recourse.

If a man has faith, why does he need to exercise it?

Yes, this!!! ^^^^^^^

To God Be The Glory

Amen!!!! They have such an aversion to this, if one cares to notice. Their main objective here is fighting against Soli Deo Gloria, day in, day out, response after response! They cannot see this!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You have not answered my question.

How is a man born again according to your theology if not through placing one's faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for us on the Cross?

I am curious to know the answer.
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.
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Also, Ephesians 2:8-9 shows clearly that faith is not a work; since we are saved by faith but salvation is not of works in the very next verse. If faith is a work, then we are not saved by it according to Ephesians 2:9. And yet we are saved by it according to Ephesians 2:8. Therefore faith is not a work.

Yes. Faith is NOT something you DO--it just IS. A state of being, not something you can work toward. We say that we are IN the faith or even OF the faith, NOT that we DO the faith. Indeed, the Bible tells us that works done NOT in faith, are worthless.

 

[Jun2u]

1. Ephesians 2:8 is NOT teaching that faith is a gift. Salvation ("ye are saved") is the GIFT

Is this another brilliant deductions of yours Sherlock? just as you teach in Revelation 20 that there will be a 1,000 years reign of Christ on earth? Yet no hint of a Millennium Reign can be found in Revelation 20 nor anywhere in Scripture for that matter.

Duh? Jesus did come but to save His people from their sins (Mat 1:21) therefore, salvation is not in view. Ephesians 2:8 is making a distinction which is the gift, grace or faith that saves, and the answer is found in the very next verse… not by works!

2. Faith cannot be a "work" since faith is simply believing and trusting God and Christ

Are you sure? Many of your views/doctrines that you teach are flawed. If I showed you where the Scripture explicitly states “faith” is a work, will you change your views/doctrines and study the Bible for yourself instead of agreeing with others, but if you do, make sure what they say is in harmony with Scripture.

I make this agreement with you because you have great potential to witness the true Gospel for the Lord.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Is this another brilliant deductions of yours Sherlock?

Duh?...Are you sure? Many of your views/doctrines that you teach are flawed.

I make this agreement with you because you have great potential to witness the true Gospel for the Lord.

You have done nothing in this post to dispel the opinion of many non-Calvinists that Calvinists are arrogant, presumptuous, disrespectful, revilers.

 

[Jun2u]

You have done nothing in this post to dispel the opinion of many non-Calvinists that Calvinists are arrogant, presumptuous revilers.

That’s the whole problem, “opinions.” Don’t get me wrong I do that too.

You do NOT know the history of the discussions I have with Enoch111 and therefore you will think that I am arrogant, presumptuous reviler. I say rather Calvinists and I are confident and secure of our salvation as per OSAS. Can you confidently say the same of yourself? If we seem to boast it is only because we boast in the LORD!

Already your view of “faith” is flawed by agreeing with @justbyfaith that we have it all along. “It just is” according to you. If faith has always been within us why then do we need to exercise it?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You have done nothing in this post to dispel the opinion of many non-Calvinists that Calvinists are arrogant, presumptuous, disrespectful, revilers.

Your poor behavior and insults on others for absolutely nothing witnesses against you. Not to mention your libelous accusations.

And, for the record, no matter how a Calvinist acts, even if the most gracious person ever, you'd find fault and say the same. Why? It's not the persons, it's a reflection of your heart and disdain for others. You should go look and see what 1 John says about hating others, and it is hate.

Frankly it's sad to behold, and you won't bat an eye or blush over your own behavior.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yet no hint of a Millennium Reign can be found in Revelation 20 nor anywhere in Scripture for that matter.

see Revelation 20:6

Ephesians 2:8 is making a distinction which is the gift, grace or faith that saves, and the answer is found in the very next verse… not by works!

Grace is from God's side, faith is from our side. FAITH IS NOT A WORK OF MAN--it just IS, by God's power. Hebrews 11:2 says "Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see." There is nothing in that statement about DOING anything. It is God who grants us faith--we can do nothing to put it in place--we just have it (or not).

If I showed you where the Scripture explicitly states “faith” is a work...

You're on--when can we expect book, chapter and verse?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

That’s the whole problem, “opinions.” Don’t get me wrong I do that too.

You do NOT know the history of the discussions I have with Enoch111 and therefore you will think that I am arrogant, presumptuous reviler. I say rather Calvinists and I are confident and secure of our salvation as per OSAS. Can you confidently say the same of yourself? If we seem to boast it is only because we boast in the LORD!

Already your view of “faith” is flawed by agreeing with @justbyfaith that we have it all along. “It just is” according to you. If faith has always been within us why then do we need to exercise it?

You are putting words in my mouth. I did NOT say that faith "has always been within us". I said that faith comes by the power of God. It is the new birth from above. By the way, I also believe in OSAS.

 

[justbyfaith]

Is this another brilliant deductions of yours Sherlock?

You are being disrespectful.

If I showed you where the Scripture explicitly states “faith” is a work, will you change your views/doctrines and study the Bible for yourself instead of agreeing with others, but if you do, make sure what they say is in harmony with Scripture.

I can show you where it seems to say that faith is a work...in John 5:28-29. In all reality, in that place in scripture, Jesus is dealing with those people who might insist on salvation being by works...and brings them home to the point that the only "work" that will save in such a case is to believe on Him whom He sent. He is not saying there that faith is a work, but is in all reality using a literary tactic to show that salvation is by faith alone...to those who might insist on salvation being by works.

Because we know from a careful examination of Ephesians 2:8-9 that faith cannot be a work...for we are saved by faith and not by works. Therefore if faith is a work, and we are saved by it, then we are saved by works. And both Ephesians 2:9 declares that we are not saved by works and Ephesians 2:8 declares that we are saved by faith. Therefore if I am saved, it is by my faith, and this is not of works; and therefore faith is not a work. Because my faith is what saves me, and if faith is a work then it is not what saves me, since I cannot be saved by works. I can go on and on and you still might not perceive it, because of principles of scripture that I have already quoted. So I will stop now.

Can you confidently say the same of yourself?

I have absolute assurance based in Romans 10:13 and the word shall.

 

[justbyfaith]

Already your view of “faith” is flawed by agreeing with @justbyfaith that we have it all along.

That is not what I say. I say with Jesus that you must be born again.

 

[Jun2u]

You're on--when can we expect book, chapter and verse?

The challenge was for @Enoch111. All he did was give you and @justbyfaith "likes." He never responded to my post.