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Calvinism is a Cult

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by CoreIssue, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Calvinists do not worry about what a verse says, they either claim it says something they want or invent a new one.
     
  2. Laish

    Laish Member

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    Ok I am working on digesting what you posted . I do see a connection to gifts and office concerning the amount or measure of faith yet no marks distinguishing one from the faith that saves and one that equips us to preach the gospel. Where is that shown .
    Also can you address why two people hearing the same Gospel message have different reactions . What sets the two apart ?
    FYI right now I am not looking for agreement . I am just looking for some clarity.
    Blessings
    Bill
     
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  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Mocking the issue doesn't make it any less biblical.
     
  4. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. It's not Scripture we reject, it's your spin on it. Scripture concisely states faith is God's gift. What you call "saving" faith.
     
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  5. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, What he is doing, to avoid the fact that faith is God's gift, is drawing a false dichotomy as if there are two faiths.
     
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  6. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    It's completely unbiblical. That's a fact.

    Tell you what, as soon as you have integrity in handling the word correctly; 2 Timothy 2:15, then you'll see your errors. This comes only from God. I was where you are in beliefs years ago. For the record I didn't take texts out of context as you do. I hope and pray you will discontinue this with God's word.
     
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  7. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Another unsubstantiated false assertion. The left is looking for a presidential candidate, you seem ready. :D
     
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  8. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    This is where it gets confusing; which is it? You tell me in one breath that

    1.) We are saved by grace
    2.) God generated the faith
    [both of which are TRUE!]

    and then you go on telling me how WE generate the faith and how it is not by grace!
    WHAT.gif

    This makes no sense, brother; it cannot be both! Either we generate our own faith apart from the grace of God, or "by grace are we saved through faith."

    I agree. The fallen will and nature of man is what causes the scoffer to scoff. I never claimed God made the scoffer scoff; I claimed it is all God who brought this sinner to Christ. I give God credit for the good, and man credit for the bad. Because God is good, and from Him all good things come, and man is bad, from whose heart is only evil continually.

    There are 2 different 'calls' expressed in the Scriptures:
    1.) The general call -- given to all men; All men naturally reject this call [The preaching of the word apart from the illumination of the Spirit, the reading of the word apart from the illumination of the Spirit]
    2.) The special call -- the call of the Spirit to the chosen of God [who, btw, will far outweigh those who are not. This is not a special little club. See the body of Christ? The MASSIVE body of Christ? Yeah.... those are the called.]
    This calling cannot be resisted, for "who can resist the power of God?"

    Acts 7:51 clearly teaches why grace must be irresistible. While it is true that those in Acts 7:51 resisted the Holy Spirit, the text clearly states that the people in question had "uncircumcised" hearts and ears. Circumcised in the Old Testament is language used for the regenerate (Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:26). In addition, these Acts 7:51 uncircumcised individuals are described as "stiff-necked." This is their natural state. So, Acts 7:51 actually confirms the absolute necessity of irresistible grace, as there is no other way such people could ever be regenerated.

    Sinners always resist the outward call of the gospel. God must first open a person's heart with his effectual call before they come to Christ (John 6:44 , John 6:65). Acts 16:14 states, "One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul" (cf. Luke 24:45 ; Acts 26:18).
    Calvinism and Acts 7:51?
     
  9. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    @justbyfaith
    Are you saying that those of us who do not believe your take on Romans 5:2, which is out of context in its usage, are spiritually blind, and lost? You've alluded to this blindness in your past posts and implied lostness thereby.

    Please clarify.
     
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  10. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Active Member

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    I see no warrant in Scripture for dividing the call of God into a "general call" and a "special call".


    No, "uncircumcised" referred to the heathen whether in Egypt or Canaan. "Circumcised" referred to those who were called and chosen by God--the "elect" (that is what "chosen" means) who were obedient to God's commands--they were not hypocrites.

    Stephen is accusing the Jews who are threatening him of being heathen at heart--refusing to listen to the prophets and even persecuting them, killing the prophets who predicted the coming of the Messiah and actually daring to kill the Messiah, Himself! As a people, they were called, chosen and saved out of bondage, yet the majority of them STILL refused to listen. (see Acts 7:39).

    Why would Stephen scold them if their fallen nature forced them to be that way? It is clear from the pouring out of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, that some of the "devout" Jews (see Acts 2:5) responded, in faith, to the call of God and Peter's proclamation (Acts 2:36). After the gospel "seed" had penetrated their hearts, they asked what they should DO. Peter's reply was: 1) Repent of their sins and turn to God 2) Be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of their sins and 3) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter further notes that this promised gift is to them, their children and even to the Gentiles--to all who had been called by God. While it is apparent that God the Father initiates the call and convicts by His Spirit, the response of faith--that of believing and trusting in God--comes from the believer. Otherwise, why commend Abraham who was considered to be righteous because he believed God?

    Since they subsequently stoned Stephen, they probably never were regenerated. We know that Saul/Paul, who was standing and watching, was regenerated through a powerful series of events but he was actually a devout Jew who did not understand, until God opened his eyes and ears. His heart was already set to obey God (circumcised) as a devout Jew.

    Not sure where this takes us in the discussion, but I am still unconvinced of "irresistible grace".
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 10:51 AM
  11. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Active Member

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    Actually, most, if not all translations say that the Lord opened her MIND to understand the Scriptures. There is a difference between mind and heart in ancient thought. Otherwise why did the Lord make the distinction between them? "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind." (Matthew 22:37)

    It is apparent that what they called the "heart" is the seat of faith, whereas the "mind" is the seat of knowledge and understanding. Soul often referred to will or the point where mind, will and heart meet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 12:55 PM
  12. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but the above isn't even close to true. Most translations, in fact, nearly all use heart. Why make up your own facts that are readily proven false? Why do you base your beliefs on falsities, even if you have to fabricate them yourself????

    Of course, but it is God that opens this, not free will, decisions or humans. It is kardia, the heart, that God opens; Acts 16:14. This God does to all he elects to salvation.

    It is Satan that blinds the minds, noema, 2 Corinthians 4:4.

    You're conflating the two in some sort of attempt to discredit something. Probably God's sovereign work.

    But I digress, it is very very difficult for you to bow to God and give him all the glory, so you'll attempt a word definition fiasco to get around it.

    Unbelievable...
     
  13. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Faith must precede grace according to Romans 5:2, and, if you will receive it, Ephesians 2:8-9.

    I know that you never claimed it, as that would be detrimental to your philosophy to admit that this is what it teaches. But it is definitely implied by your philosophy.

    Scripture?
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    @Jun2u,

    Regardless of your arguments against it, Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

    How is a man born again if not through placing his faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for him on the Cross?

    (I am sincerely asking you this question; please answer this according to your theology)
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    @justbyfaith Your biggest mistake is the same the Catholics make. You think flesh faith, the kind you have when buying a car, also saves people. But this is not biblical faith. It is in fact sinful because the flesh cannot have a pure motive in anything it does, including the reason for choosing what it thinks is salvation. Nor can you discern the true Christ by the flesh. This is evident in your rejection of the true Christ by preferring the false Christ of "Oneness Pentecostalism".

    Salvation is by grace alone. That is, Christ turns those who cannot believe and repent into believers who then want to repent. This is through the New Birth which creates genuine faith and becomes the Baptism with the Holy Spirit during repentance.
     
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  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a real believer...
     
  18. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    He never stated anything close to your asinine conclusion. I see the problem, not only can you not comprehend Scripture, you cannot even comprehend simple, plain dialog.
     
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  19. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    1.) This is based of a misuse of Romans 5
    2.) Even so, you are saying that faith must preceed grace, and if you accept grace you are saved by grace through faith? This makes absolutely zero sense. Please, try reading this with a straight face. This belief has officially left reality. It doesn't even hold any logical ground, much less Scriptural. Try reading the Romans 5:1 and seeing to whom Paul is speaking. Those who are already saved. The 'grace' which we have access to is not SAVING grace, but rather the multitude of GRACES that are bestowed upon the believers. And, when examined in CONTEXT provides a much, much, MUCH more concise and cohesive view: Salvation is by faith, and faith is a gift of grace; and through this gift of faith, we than have access into the inexhaustible multitude of grace which is poured out upon the people of God.

    Ok, then if you'd please stop acting as though I did, that would be great.

    Oh, that would be Romans 9:19, yep. None can resist the power of God.

     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I think that you are still failing to understand what the word through means. This is definitely a lack of reading comprehension on your part.

    I would venture to say, using your own tactics against you (since turnabout is fair play) that this verse is taken out of context.
     
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