Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Earburner]

Earburne

[No. Through Jesus, all are predestined to be called to salvation! Only the sacrificial death of God the Son was predestined! Therefore, in God's foreknowledge, He knows who is saved.
However, the foreknowledge of God is not predestination]
.
Your whole post is wrong from start to finish. ALL are not predestined to be called to salvation . That fabrication is a complete falsehood and violation of most of scripture.

Was Jesus predestined to be "the Lamb of God" before the foundation of the world?
Yes!
.
Were you and I predestined before the foundation of the world?
No!

 

[Earburner]

We all are pro-created through the seed of Adam, being equal of mortal life as an animal, of which has no eternal life.

 

[Mjh29]

Was Jesus predestined to be "the Lamb of God" before the foundation of the world?
Yes!
.
Were you and I predestined before the foundation of the world?
No!

Ephesians 1:3-4 disagrees.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ephesians 1:3-4 disagrees.

seems to, huh, but then "us" that was left ambiguous in Scripture has now been defined, right, now it's alla sudden "you and me," any second herenow it'll be "Christians" I guess right. So iow "us" ends up being "everyone who agrees with me" I guess

 

[Mjh29]

seems to, huh, but then "us" that was left ambiguous in Scripture has now been defined, right, now it's alla sudden "you and me," any second herenow it'll be "Christians" I guess right. So iow "us" ends up being "everyone who agrees with me" I guess

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. Ask brother @SovereignGrace or @Preacher4Truth their view of baptism, and you'll find we disagree. It has to do with agreeing with the Scriptures. the "us" Paul is speaking to is indeed Christians, because taking the verse in context, Paul is writing to the Christian church of Ephesus.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. Ask brother @SovereignGrace or @Preacher4Truth their view of baptism, and you'll find we disagree. It has to do with agreeing with the Scriptures. the "us" Paul is speaking to is indeed Christians, because taking the verse in context, Paul is writing to the Christian church of Ephesus.

I do disagree with your view on waterboarding babies. Sprinkling? Eh, I can accept it as the Presbyterian view of it is not salvific as the RCC view is. But waterboarding them is just too much.

 

[bbyrd009]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. Ask brother @SovereignGrace or @Preacher4Truth their view of baptism, and you'll find we disagree. It has to do with agreeing with the Scriptures. the "us" Paul is speaking to is indeed Christians, because taking the verse in context, Paul is writing to the Christian church of Ephesus.

so then today's "Christians" are made = to those Christians, and "Ephesus" is not understood, and we can even sing "when we all get to heaven" without qualm I guess. Not that I blame you or anything ok, of course we all want to be in that "us," so natch that is what we will Read, your disparate views on ritual baptism notwithstanding imo...or perhaps even evidence maybe, like seeking to be perceived as a leader is or should be, and etc. So imo it has everything to do with "agreeing with me," at least as soon as I have defined (and of course also placed myself) in "us," "the Church at Ephesus"
Revelation 2:4 Lexicon: But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

 

[Mjh29]

I do disagree with your view on waterboarding babies. Sprinkling? Eh, I can accept it as the Presbyterian view of it is not salvific as the RCC view is. But waterboarding them is just too much.

We're not waterboarding the babies, we are waterboarding the devil out of the babies! lol!
[jk.]

 

[Earburner]

Ephesians 1:3-4 disagrees.

Read those verses again and understand that the work for our redemption was orchestrated FOR US before the foundation of the world. That is what was predestined, and it is for whosoever will.

It's all a matter of perspective.
If you see yourself as being born as "having an eternal soul", then it's easy for you to see yourself as having special privileges, thus misaligning the rest scripture for your own purposes.
.
However, if you see yourself as not having an eternal soul, then you will never see yourself as being predestined to be saved (privileged) , but rather equal of all sinners who need His Grace.

 

[Mjh29]

so then today's "Christians" are made = to those Christians, and "Ephesus" is not understood, and we can even sing "when we all get to heaven" without qualm I guess. Not that I blame you or anything ok, of course we all want to be in that "us," so natch that is what we will Read, your disparate views on ritual baptism notwithstanding imo...or perhaps even evidence maybe

The "Us" is defined in the Scriptures, not by me. The "us" are the called of Jesus; His sheep hear His voice, and He knows them and they follow Him. They are those individuals who have from before time were chosen by God. Not by me.

 

[Mjh29]

Read those verses again and understand that the work for our redemption was orchestrated FOR US before the foundation of the world. That is what was predestined, and it is for whosoever will.

It's all a matter of perspective.
If you see yourself as being born as "having an eternal soul", then it's easy for you to see yourself as having special privileges, thus misaligning the rest scripture for your own purposes.
.
However, if you see yourself as not having an eternal soul, then you will never see yourself as being predestined to be saved (privileged) , but rather equal of all sinners who need His Grace.

Even as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world. It's self explanatory regardless of "prospective". it's right there in black and white, and even explained further in the following passages.

 

[bbyrd009]

The "Us" is defined in the Scriptures, not by me. The "us" are the called of Jesus; His sheep hear His voice, and He knows them and they follow Him. They are those individuals who have from before time were chosen by God. Not by me.

Ok, but now your syntax is put in a manner where I can agree, so I will agree, yes, "us" is not what you said before iow, but what you are saying now, bc now you are not arbitrarily including yourself et al, "Christians," in that "us." The perspective has completely changed I guess right

 

[SovereignGrace]

Read those verses again and understand that the work for our redemption was orchestrated FOR US before the foundation of the world. That is what was predestined, and it is for whosoever will.

It's all a matter of perspective.
If you see yourself as being born as "having an eternal soul", then it's easy for you to see yourself as having special privileges, thus misaligning the rest scripture for your own purposes.
.
However, if you see yourself as not having an eternal soul, then you will never see yourself as being predestined to be saved (privileged) , but rather equal of all sinners who need His Grace.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.[Ephesians 1]

Look @ all the personal pronouns used. There is a target group being addressed, not every man indiscriminately.

 

[justbyfaith]

Notice how they approach and handle the scriptures in a flippant manner. They post a verse hither and yon and "ta da!" No exegesis whatsoever.

Here is your exegesis: 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv).

Eternal punish-ment, yes!
Eternal punish-ing, no!

I see that you are catering to those who have "itching" ears...therefore "Earburner would be more aptly named "ear-itcher."

 

[bbyrd009]

Read those verses again and understand that the work for our redemption was orchestrated FOR US before the foundation of the world. That is what was predestined, and it is for whosoever will.

It's all a matter of perspective.
If you see yourself as being born as "having an eternal soul", then it's easy for you to see yourself as having special privileges, thus misaligning the rest scripture for your own purposes.
.
However, if you see yourself as not having an eternal soul, then you will never see yourself as being predestined to be saved (privileged) , but rather equal of all sinners who need His Grace.

^

 

[bbyrd009]

The "Us" is defined in the Scriptures, not by me

hopefully the hypocrisy inherent in this statement used by every preacher ever is apparent too?
I mean, no offense, but Dave liked it, so what does that tell you

 

[Mjh29]

Ok, but now your syntax is put in a manner where I can agree, so I will agree, yes, "us" is not what you said before iow, but what you are saying now, bc now you are not arbitrarily including yourself et al, "Christians," in that "us." The perspective has completely changed I guess right

I do not place myself there arbitrarily. God by His grace has brought me from the "them" category into the "us" category.

 

[bbyrd009]

Was Jesus predestined to be "the Lamb of God" before the foundation of the world?
Yes!
.
Were you and I predestined before the foundation of the world?
No!

^

 

[bbyrd009]

I do not place myself there arbitrarily. God by His grace has brought me from the "them" category into the "us" category.

if I testify of myself...

 

[Mjh29]

if I testify of myself...

That is why there is a body of believers. Others who have shown forth fruit of conversion as well. So that I do not testify of myself alone, but have the testimony of my brothers and sisters and [most importantly] the testimony of Christ and His Word.