Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Earburner]

No, they are chosen if God chooses them. Saying they can choose themselves unto salvation is like saying babies birth themselves. Sorry, doesn't happen.

They are chosen AFTER they answer His call.
Many are called, but few chosen!
Why then should God call out to the "many", if the "few" were saved already (as you believe) before the foundation of the world.
The ONLY status that everyone has for anything "already", is condemnation. That is a biblical given, before they believe in Jesus! John 3:18.

 

[Earburner]

2 Peter 1:10 Lexicon: Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

so wadr I don't know why you keep ignoring this and saying that

Ta-daa

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Was Jesus predestined to be "the Lamb of God" before the foundation of the world?
Yes!
.
Were you and I predestined before the foundation of the world?
No!

Sorry EB,
I most certainly was predestined before the world was.
I think you for forgot a few verses;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,
which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

titus1:
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

 

[Earburner]

Sorry EB,
1. I most certainly was predestined before the world was.
2. I think you for forgot a few verses;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,
which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

titus1:
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

1. Your perspective is not God's perspective, as to what was predestined. You definitely WERE NOT predestined!! However the Gift of your salvation and mine, by God, was predestined.
.
Your physical life, and mine, originated by pro-creation through the seed of Adam, who had no eternal life or existence of any kind, in his creation by God. Did you forget that Adam and Eve were barred from the ToL, and therefore were not a recipient of eternal life?
.
2. Those verses you added, support God's view (perspective) 100%, not yours!
Only God was before the world began, and did prepare beforehand His Gift of salvation, knowing full well that Adam and Eve would fail.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Earburner,

[1. Your perspective is not God's perspective, as to what was predestined.]
Sure it is...That is why he had them write it in scripture.
For WHOM he did foreknow. He also did predestinate...I was foreknown by God to be conformed to the Image of the Son.

[You definitely WERE NOT predestined!!]
Sorry satan, but I was...

[However the Gift of your salvation and mine, by God, was predestined]
. No... I was foreknown by God, and predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son. This being foreknown and elected happened before the world was. Nothing you say can change that.
[Your physical life, and mine, originated by pro-creation through the seed of Adam, who had no eternal life or existence of any kind, in his creation by God. Did you forget that Adam and Eve were barred from the ToL, and therefore were not a recipient of eternal life?]
. you do not know if God saved them or not. He did shed the blood of an animal and cover them.
[2. Those verses you added, support God's view (perspective) 100%, not yours!]

God reveals His truth to His people, My view is believing what God has revealed for me and the other believers.


[Only God was before the world began, and did prepare beforehand His Gift of salvation, knowing full well that Adam and Eve would fail.]
Yes in the Covenant of redemption the Father gives to the Son a multitude of sinners like myself. Jesus comes to seek and save everyone of those marked out and elected before the world was...

 

[Jun2u]

Ooops! Sorry "just by faith". I thought I was replying to " jun2u"

You were NOT mistaken. The Holy Spirit guided you to the correct person. Lol!

 

[Jun2u]

God's Salvation program incorporates our human will of reasoning

I'm truly amazed at your knowledge of Scripture.

You must have been with the triune God when they planned salvation and while they discussed which
person of the Trinity took which part to perform.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Earburner]

EB wrote:
[Only God was before the world began, and did prepare beforehand His Gift of salvation, knowing full well that Adam and Eve would fail.]
AD replied:
1. Yes in the Covenant of redemption the Father gives to the Son a multitude of sinners like myself.
2a. Jesus comes to seek and save
2b. everyone of those marked out and elected before the world was...
.
EB's response:
1. Correct. For "whosoever will", is to meaning ALL have equal opportunity to receive God's Gift of Eternal life through faith in Jesus.

2a. Correct. All who are born of flesh, "from beneath" are "condemned already". John 3:18.

2b. Incorrect. No one individual is as you say, being "marked out and elected, before the world was".
However, God's plan for our salvation, was predestined before the world was, for "whosoever will".
.
But, if what you say is true, why then did Jesus die the death of His Sacrifice for every man, if every man was not predestined to be saved, before the world was?
IOW's the Grace of God, extended through Jesus, IS FOR "EVERY MAN", and not just for the members of "The Predestination Club" only.
Heb. 2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
.
If therefore Jesus died for every man, then every man has equal opportunity to receive God's forgiveness and the free Gift of Eternal life!

 

[Earburner]

I'm truly amazed at your knowledge of Scripture.

You must have been with the triune God when they planned salvation and while they discussed which
person of the Trinity took which part to perform.

To God Be The Glory

Nope! I was not there, in their putting the salvation plan together for "every man".
However, as you say, you were predestined (locked in before birth) to be saved. Were you there to witness your salvation before the world was.
Nope! As I, you had no such thing as a preincarnate soul.
.
According to your way of thinking, you believe that you had no other choice in the matter, except to be saved!
Rom. 11 and Heb. 10 speak strongly against your thinking.
God forewarns us of boasting:
Rom. 11[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Jun2u]

They are chosen AFTER they answer His call.

This is impossible!! Man is sold to sin and Satan, therefore, he is spiritually dead. “As in Adam all die” is the fundamental principle, and therefore man CANNOT answer the call (Romans 3:10-11). A dead man has no life in him and therefore has no power to do anything, period.

Many are called, but few chosen![/QUOTE]

True. The call is to the world. But who will call since none are righteous, and no one seeks after God? Again, an impossibility!!

Why then should God call out to the "many", if the "few" were saved already (as you believe) before the foundation of the world.

As already stated, the call is to the world. However, no one has the power to accept/receive the call because man is spiritual deaf, except those whom the Father elected and given to Jesus BEFORE the foundation of the world.

The ONLY status that everyone has for anything "already", is condemnation. That is a biblical given, before they believe in Jesus! John 3:18.

EXACTLY!! THAT”S WHY MAN NEEDS A SAVIOR. Thank you, Lord Jesus.

To God God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Nope! I was not there, in their putting the salvation plan together for "every man".
However, as you say, you were predestined (locked in before birth) to be saved. Were you there to witness your salvation before the world was.
Nope! As I, you had no such thing as a preincarnate soul.

John the Baptist introduced Jesus to the world as, “the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.”
And, John the Apostle under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote in Revelation 13:8, “… the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

The Israelites sacrificed lambs in the OT to atone for their sins. Since I am in Christ therefore, I was saved when He bore my sins from the foundation of the world.

According to your way of thinking, you believe that you had no other choice in the matter, except to be saved!
Rom. 11 and Heb. 10 speak strongly against your thinking.

I will answer with your use of Romans 11. In verses, 5-6 Paul speaks of works versus grace. You can take it from there.

God forewarns us of boasting:

Only if you boast in yourself. Read Psalms 34:2

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Heb. 2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:9 must be read in light of Matthew 1:21 and John 6:44.

If Jesus died for every man, it is therefore correct to say then that there would NO ONE be put to hell because there is no sin to answer for because the “wages of sin is death.”

If therefore Jesus died for every man, then every man has equal opportunity to receive God's forgiveness and the free Gift of Eternal life!

There are more than 900 “IF(s)” in the Bible. Read my lips: Jesus died ONLY for the elect!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

If Jesus died for every man, it is therefore correct to say then that there would NO ONE be put to hell because there is no sin to answer for because the “wages of sin is death.”

This is very poor Bible interpretation. Even though Christ died for the sins of the whole world --literally tasted death for every man -- that does not give anyone a free pass to Heaven (including the Calvinist).

Every sinner must obey the Gospel in order to be saved. God commands all men everywhere to repent, and God commands all men everywhere to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and His finished work of redemption. Therefore the Gospel must be preached to "every creature" and only those who believe will be saved.

And he [Christ] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

 

[Earburner]

This is impossible!! Man is sold to sin and Satan, therefore, he is spiritually dead. “As in Adam all die” is the fundamental principle, and therefore man CANNOT answer the call (Romans 3:10-11). A dead man has no life in him and therefore has no power to do anything, period.

.
Correct! It is the Holy Spirit that "quickeneth" (makes one alive to God), NOT that they were elected to grace before they were born!
.
The Holy Spirit convicts one of their sins, and helps them to see their need for Jesus.
John 16[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
.
Does that mean that the HS was already in the person who suddenly repents?
NO! The HS of God cannot enter INTO anyone, until they acknowledge verbally, their need for Jesus to save them. Once they confess with their mouth, that Jesus is their Lord and Savior, the forgiveness of sin is then enacted by God, through their faith in the sacrificial blood of Jesus. Then and only then shall the Gift of the eternal Holy Spirit of God be given.

OK, since you want to go that route, in a congregation of 100 people, how many shall hear the preacher's audible call to repent towards God through Jesus?
Ans. All 100 people.
.
How many will answer that salvation call, by turning to God through faith in Jesus?
Ans. 1-5%.
.
Why so small amount?
Ans. Very few will admit to their own selves, that they are exceedingly sinful and condemned before God. Without the Holy Spirit (God) drawing a person to Himself, no one can come to the Lord Jesus for forgiveness and his Gift of Eternal life.
John 6
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Earburner]

Hebrews 2:9 must be read in light of Matthew 1:21 and John 6:44.

If Jesus died for every man, it is therefore correct to say then that there would NO ONE be put to hell because there is no sin to answer for because the “wages of sin is death.”



There are more than 900 “IF(s)” in the Bible. Read my lips: Jesus died ONLY for the elect!!

To God Be The Glory

Jesus died only for the elect??
Please provide that scripture .

 

[Earburner]

John the Baptist introduced Jesus to the world as, “the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.”
> The removal of sin did not take place, until the literal shedding of Christ's blood on the cross. Heb. 9:22
.
And, John the Apostle under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote in Revelation 13:8, “… the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
> Yes! That was when the plan originated!
But again, Jesus being slain, did not take place until on the cross.
.
The Israelites sacrificed lambs in the OT to atone for their sins. Since I am in Christ therefore, I was saved when He bore my sins from the foundation of the world.
> Atone? Yes, but on an annual basis. The blood of animals could NOT "take away (remove) sin".
.
You were saved when you confessed with your mouth that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and not before that time!



I will answer with your use of Romans 11. In verses, 5-6 Paul speaks of works versus grace. You can take it from there.



Only if you boast in yourself. Read Psalms 34:2

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

This is very poor Bible interpretation. Even though Christ died for the sins of the whole world --literally tasted death for every man -- that does not give anyone a free pass to Heaven (including the Calvinist).

Really? By whose authority!!?? Do you even understand the phrase “Christ died for the sins of the whole word - literally tasted death for every man - “ which you just quoted?” It means that Christ bore all the sins of mankind upon His shoulder and now sin cannot condemn man to hell because all his sins have been redeemed by Jesus on the cross.

Surely you jest because hell will heavily be populated! You teach nothing but heresy.

Every sinner must obey the Gospel in order to be saved. God commands all men everywhere to repent, and God commands all men everywhere to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and His finished work of redemption. Therefore the Gospel must be preached to "every creature" and only those who believe will be saved.

You said only those who believe will be saved? Yes, the Bible teaches that. But who will believe since God’s assessment of the human race is that “As it is written, there is none righteous no, not one; there is none that seeks after God!” Rom 3:10-11.

As a matter of fact, only those that the Father draws which are given to Jesus will become saved (Jo 6:44, 37). These two verses are the only criteria that man can be saved!!! First the Father draws, elects, chooses, names and predestines all He is going to save (read Eze 36:24-38), and then given to Jesus to redeem their sins, and He lost none of them.

Didn’t you just post a study on John 6:37 three weeks or so ago? Where you stopped at verse 40 and did not even mention the crucial verse 44 that I pointed out in that same OP? And you pretend to know Scripture more than others?

And he [Christ] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

The reason we preach the Gospel into the world is that the elect is born at different times in history and are scattered throughout the world. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. We bring the Gospel for it is our duty to do and God does the saving. He is the only one who knows the elect.

I don’t believe you understand Mark 16:15-16 and especially verse 17. Many in Christendom thinks that verses 9-20 was not written by Mark and should be omitted. They do so believe that because in my opinion verse 17 is not understood except by the child of God.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Jesus died only for the elect??
Please provide that scripture .

Fair enough:

Matthew 1:21
"... and thou shalt call his name JESUS for he shall save his people from their sins."

If you don't comprehend Matthew 1:21 then try John 6:37; 44.

Keep following a blind leader who gives you "likes" and you too will fall.

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Fair enough:

Matthew 1:21
"... and thou shalt call his name JESUS for he shall save his people from their sins."

Keep following a blind leader who gives you "likes" and you too will fall.

To God Be The Glory

You forget that first was about Israel.

 

[Jun2u]

You forget that first was about Israel.

Clarify