1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

[CNKW3]

Go away. You are in confusion.

Hahahaha.
And I’m the one that doesnt know how to study the Bible? I hope a million people read our exchange here.
Here endeth the lesson!

 

[charity]

1 Cor 2 is so abused.
The natural man and the spiritual man? Paul is contrasting those who follow after the enticing words of mans wisdom, wisdom of men, wisdom of the world. (Natural man)These are all phrases used by Paul.
To the man who follows after the direction of the Spirit.
It’s as simple as that. So, we can choose to follow after mans wisdom and be natural or we can read, study and apply what the HS has provided and become spiritual. The HS does not have to miraculously, apart from the word, operate on you to make you then spiritual so you can now understand God. That is completely false. Let’s look at some verses....

Hello @CNKW3,

The Word of God is the means whereby the Holy Spirit works, for it is His 'sword'(Ephesians 6:17;Hebrews 4:12).

CNKW3:-
1 Corinthians 2:9-16
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
How does one compare spiritual with spiritual today? Through the Bible. When you tell me you got on your knees and prayed to God for forgiveness and at that moment you were born again, I know you are natural and have followed mans wisdom, because the Spirit never told anybody nor did the Spirit give an example in his word of anybody doing that for salvation. Plus, it completely contradicts what the Spirit has told us to do in order to be saved. Also when I see women preachers like Joyce I know they are following their own desires and mans wisdom because the Spirit filled word speaks plainly against this practice.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
See, the natural man above, praying for salvation, did not receive that from the Spirit and when I point that out he thinks I’m foolish because you CANNOT be spiritual following the wisdom of man. This individual cannot go to Gods word and say see...I did exactly what the Spirit gave an example of or what he told me to do, because NOBODY was ever told to pray for salvation and there are no divine examples of this happening under the new covenant.

* For a person to come under conviction of sin, and to have prayed to God for forgiveness, then the Holy Spirit must have been working in him. That person had to know that God 'is', and that he is a re-warder of them that diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6), otherwise he would not have approached God. The fear of God is the 'beginning' of wisdom, and therefore though salvation may not be the outcome at that initial approach, it certainly sounds like a good beginning. The ground was being ploughed for the entrance of the seed (the gospel message) by which that man could be saved, by God's grace.

CNKW3:- 'But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ' -

the only way to have the mind of Christ is to align your way of thinking to what has been revealed in his book.

* The entrance of God's Word brings light: So we can only know the Lord's mind by what He has chosen to reveal in that precious Word.

* Paul and his colleagues, to whom he referred by the word, 'we' in this verse, had the mind of Christ, for He had revealed it to them: and at this stage of Paul's ministry he only spoke those things which were written in the Old Testament Prophets concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, and were therefore confirm-able by reference to them (Romans 1:1-4). For He, and the twelve, during the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles, were confirming the Person and ministry of Christ; and witnessing to what they had seen and heard by Him; either during His earthly ministry (in the case of the Twelve) , or by revelation of risen Christ (in the case of Paul himself)' and of His resurrection from the dead.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CNKW3]

Hello @CNKW3,

The Word of God is the means whereby the Holy Spirit works, for it is His 'sword'(Ephesians 6:17;Hebrews 4:12).



* For a person to come under conviction of sin, and to have prayed to God for forgiveness, then the Holy Spirit must have been working in him. That person had to know that God 'is', and that he is a re-warder of them that diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6), otherwise he would not have approached God. The fear of God is the 'beginning' of wisdom, and therefore though salvation may not be the outcome at that initial approach, it certainly sounds like a good beginning. The ground was being ploughed for the entrance of the seed (the gospel message) by which that man could be saved, by God's grace.



* The entrance of God's Word brings light: So we can only know the Lord's mind by what He has chosen to reveal. Paul and his colleagues, to whom he referred by the word, 'we' in this verse, had the mind of Christ, for He had revealed it to them: but at this stage of Paul's ministry he only spoke those things which were written in the Holy Scriptures, and were confirm-able by reference to them.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I do not think there are very many places in today’s world that does not know there is a bible that speaks of God. Now there may be places where they don’t have the Bible but the knowledge is out there and has been. Whether your in the UK or US, everybody knows there is a bible that speaks of God. So if someone decides on their own they want to know more about God they will seek out the information. They may even start praying, but this information is not given today directly from the Spirit to people who have ZERO knowledge of the Bible. My kids when they were young did not know there was a God or Bible. We had to give them the information. People for ever have worshipped “gods” in all different ways. But God has never just accepted any type of worship. That is displayed in the OT.
Cornelius was a person that prayed. The angel came to him and said to send for Peter who would “give him words by which he would be saved”. Cornelius still needed the word to be saved.

I would agree that Paul preached through the OT scriptures but the gospel message of repentance, baptism, being freed from sin, the church, it’s organization, it’s teaching and doctrine were all new revelations that had not been written down quite yet. This is why they had the miraculous gifts of the Spirit.

 

[101G]

If he came out of a womb? What is that? Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must be “born again”? What did Nic say?
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
This is how the Bible defines born within this context. Coming from the womb. You asked was Jesus born (came from the womb of) a virgin. And I said yes. What kind of game are you playing. This is why people hate religion. Nobody can ever be straight and consistent.
In Jn 18 jesus himself said he was born, so quit playing games. If you have an alternative meaning then spell it out. This is so rich. You people want everything literal. (Except for the word born)
You read 1000 years in rev 20 and develop an entire doctrine that says Jesus (who was never born) is coming back to rule for a literal 1000 years which is false and hound me over the meaning of being “born”? Really. Can you be any more inconsistent?

GINOLJC, to all
seeing you don't know, our Job is to edify, and not to put anyone down. let's start in the OT and see from there first. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

a "CHILD" is "BORN" .... FLESH. a "SON" is "GIVEN" .... spirit, and this spirit, it's from above. here we have two transactions, flesh/a body is born, the spirit given. let's see it clearly. in the NT.

the son of man is spirit, and is given from where? let's see where he, the son of man come from. John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world". he is not of this "world". now let's see if this the son of man talking, identifying himself as the one who came from above? John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. so the Son of man is from heaven.

now, let's see what came out of Mary's womb. Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". well the Son of Man did not come out of the womb, he came from above. before Mary was born even herself. the scriptures reprove you of your false assumption that the son of man was born, the son of God was born.

see, you're just like those unbelieving Jews of the Lord Jesus day, so ... let's see their fooliness,
John 6:41 "The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.John 6:42 "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?". the Lord Jesus is without father, without mother, (biologically). Mary was just the surrogate "birth" mother to that flesh that the HOLY GHOST concieved in her womb. they didn't KNOW that the Lord JESUS came down from heaven and not out of Mary's womb, only the body that he dewlt in came out of Mary's womb.

see you don't have to be a big shot preacher, or teacher to have the "HOLY GHOST" to learn and understand the things of God. and just because someone says something you don't know yet, don't mean that they are wrong. maybe it's just you .... who God haven't revealed it to yet.

this is why we asked you the Son of man and Son of God question, you didn't know, and just answered off the cuff.

there are some poster here that I might not agree with on everything, (for I don't know everything of God). but there are some things that have been posted that has open my eyes to the truth that I didn't know before. so instead of jumping the gun sometimes, just check out what someones says and then approach them with question to see if they can satify your ... or our lack of knowledger in or on a certian topic.

we hope you understand why we had this conversatation.

PICJAG.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

View attachment 6279

It does not say that because that idea is so stupid and man centered only a carnal mind would think such a thing.
This shows a lack of understanding biblical salvation.

 

[CNKW3]

now, let's see what came out of Mary's womb.

Oh, so he did come out of Mary’s womb.

That’s what I said and you all over me for some reason. You asked if he was “born”. The answer is yes. Are you trying to say that I didn’t know Jesus was from heaven? Of course I’d did. I’ve referred to him as deity many times. Christ is God. He’s not the father and he’s not the Spirit. He’s the son of man, the son of God, who has always existed. But you asked if he was “born” of a virgin and the correct answer is yes.
This is just like a conversation years ago on another board when someone asked me if Christ died. I replied yes of course. And he proceeds to do the same thing you just did schooling me how he is still alive. I kept arguing that he did die though, which is correct. I understand Jesus is alive just the same way I understand that Christ is from heaven. So, don’t play games to try and prove some point.

 

[bbyrd009]

The promise to send the comforter or helper was made only to the apostles.

so you say, but cannot Quote

The root for "only" I can dig up if you need, ok.

 

[CNKW3]

so you say, but cannot Quote

The root for "only" I can dig up if you need, ok.

Jn 13-16 is the last supper which Christ enjoyed with “only” the apostles. The word “only” means there was “nobody” else there. So in Jn 14 and 16 when he said....
I will send “you” the comforter. Who was he talking to? This should be a very easy answer unless you want to be difficult.

 

[CNKW3]

so you say, but cannot Quote

The root for "only" I can dig up if you need, ok.

In John 15:27 Jesus said...
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
So, is this spoken to everybody or was it directed to the apostles “ONLY”?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This might be the oddest thread I've seen started in a long time.

You have not added many other verses in for consideration. 1. If you don't have His Spirit, you aren't one of His. 2. Repent and be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit (that was said by an apostle to men who weren't in that upper room at all.) 3. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit? 4. Peter preached to men not apostles and not in the upper room: repent, be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Paul asked a man not an apostle, have you received the Holy Spirit yet?

 

[Nancy]

This might be the oddest thread I've seen started in a long time.

You have not added many other verses in for consideration. 1. If you don't have His Spirit, you aren't one of His. 2. Repent and be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit (that was said by an apostle to men who weren't in that upper room at all.) 3. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit? 4. Peter preached to men not apostles and not in the upper room: repent, be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Paul asked a man not an apostle, have you received the Holy Spirit yet?

"This might be the oddest thread I've seen started in a long time."
Yep, just one of the handful, lol.st goes round and round in circles. Everybody gets NOWHERE and then, a short while later, it starts all over in a new thread with a different title...to protect the ignorant and combative. NOT that there is anything WRONG with that! lol. A little heat now and then in a discussion/debate is a good thing, I think.
♥

 

[101G]

Oh, so he did come out of Mary’s womb.

That’s what I said and you all over me for some reason. You asked if he was “born”. The answer is yes. Are you trying to say that I didn’t know Jesus was from heaven? Of course I’d did. I’ve referred to him as deity many times. Christ is God. He’s not the father and he’s not the Spirit. He’s the son of man, the son of God, who has always existed. But you asked if he was “born” of a virgin and the correct answer is yes.
This is just like a conversation years ago on another board when someone asked me if Christ died. I replied yes of course. And he proceeds to do the same thing you just did schooling me how he is still alive. I kept arguing that he did die though, which is correct. I understand Jesus is alive just the same way I understand that Christ is from heaven. So, don’t play games to try and prove some point.

GINOLJC, to all.

first, yes, you don't know. second, what came out of Mary's womb was flesh and blood. the Lord Jesus is Spirit. (stop right there). the flesh is not the Spirit. the scripture clearly states, the Son of God was "BORN", Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". if you cannot believe the scripture, A. we cain't help you. B. why say you're a christian and don't believe the word of God?. it is written in black and white in your bible.

second the Son of Man which is Spirit is from above, and not from Mary. for God is without Mother, and without Father, because he is the "Father".

let me ask you this question and put this thing to rest, think before you answer. 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, [who][ is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen".

if the Lord Jesus is the "Only" one with IMMORTALITY where do that leave your so called first person and third person? well. because "IMMORTALITY" means, the ability to live forever; eternal life. as the scriptures states he's the only one with it, meaning he not born, so he have no beginning, no end. and Mary did not birth that. and two that means he's the only one in the Godhead. so think long and hard before you answer.

PICJAG.

PS you have the above scriptures, we suggest you study them closley.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jn 13-16 is the last supper which Christ enjoyed with “only” the apostles. The word “only” means there was “nobody” else there. So in Jn 14 and 16 when he said....
I will send “you” the comforter. Who was he talking to? This should be a very easy answer unless you want to be difficult.

ok, go with that then, try to read Scripture like you talk, ok with me.
Add to It even, if you want, that's prolly ok too right

 

[bbyrd009]

In John 15:27 Jesus said...
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
So, is this spoken to everybody or was it directed to the apostles “ONLY”?

iow you cannot Quote it, right, you have to enforce your pov upon it in order to make it say what you want it to say, bc the real message, hidden in "12" btw, would not suit you wadr. But you can pretend Scripture is written that way if you like, ok with me. Be certain, and speak with certainty too if you want, as if you know for sure. I appreciate the response, and have a nice day

 

[Nancy]

In John 15:27 Jesus said...
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
So, is this spoken to everybody or was it directed to the apostles “ONLY”?

I would say it was NOT just for His Apostles but for the whole world!

"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

 

[bbyrd009]

obviously by using the same logic that message was meant solely for those 12 in that room that day right

 

[charity]

I would say it was NOT just for His Apostles but for the whole world!

"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

Hello @Nancy,

As you will have read for yourself in John 14, the Lord Jesus sought to 'comfort' His disciples, for He had told them that He was to leave them, and they were naturally troubled about this. In John 14:16 He told them that He would pray to the Father, that He might send, 'another comforter', One Who would be with them for ever - 'The Spirit of Truth'. This promise was repeated several times in chapters 15 & 16.

The Greek word for 'comforter,' as you will know, is 'parakletos', used 4 times of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16,26; John 15:26; John 16:7), and once of the Saviour, where it is translated, 'Advocate' (1 John 2:1). This double use of the title is suggested in Romans where the intercession of the Spirit (Romans 8:27) is balanced by the intercession of the risen and ascended Saviour (Romans 8:34). This inter-relation is seen in the fact that the disciples were not going to be left 'comfortless,' or, 'fatherless', for the Saviour said, 'I will come to you' (John 14:18).

'Comfortless' (John 14:18), while it looks to the gracious ministry of the 'comforter', nevertheless speaks of a fatherless condition, as in James 1:27, where this same Greek word is also used. The disciples were not to be left fatherless, when the Son left them, but the Father would send another comforter - The Holy Spirit.

Praise God!

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
.. And when they saw Him,
.... they worshipped Him:
...... but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
"All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.
.... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
...... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
........ Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
.......... and, lo, I am with you alway,
............ even unto the end of the world. (age)
.............. Amen.'
(Matthew 28:16-20)

Hello @Nancy,

You mentioned verses 19 & 20 of the quoted passage above, and as you will see, the command given was directed to the 11 remaining disciples, by the risen Lord. This was not fulfilled by the twelve during that dispensation: for their ministry to Israel, in the capacity of, 'them that Heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3-4), was rejected by that nation, and is now in abeyance until that day when Israel will once more be 'My People' (Hosea 2:23), and will fulfil their Divinely appointed role as Priests unto God.

As to the words, 'low I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world', this promise is in abeyance too, for had Israel accepted the word preached by the Apostles in their ministry, as 'them that heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3-4); Christ would have returned, as promised through Peter in Acts 3:19-21:-

'Repent ye therefore,
.. and be converted,
.... that your sins may be blotted out,
...... when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
.. which before was preached unto you:
.... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
...... which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'

* Then the events spoken concerning the end of the age, would have taken place at that time. However, Israel did not repent, so it awaits a yet future day.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Nancy]

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
.. And when they saw Him,
.... they worshipped Him:
...... but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
"All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.
.... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
...... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
........ Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
.......... and, lo, I am with you alway,
............ even unto the end of the world. (age)
.............. Amen.'
(Matthew 28:16-20)

Hello @Nancy,

You mentioned verses 19 & 20 of the quoted passage above, and as you will see, the command given was directed to the 11 remaining disciples, by the risen Lord. This was not fulfilled by the twelve during that dispensation: for their ministry to Israel, in the capacity of, 'them that Heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3-4), was rejected by that nation, and is now in abeyance until that day when Israel will once more be 'My People' (Hosea 2:23), and will fulfil their Divinely appointed role as Priests unto God.

As to the words, 'low I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world', this promise is in abeyance too, for had Israel accepted the word preached by the Apostles in their ministry, as 'them that heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3-4); Christ would have returned, as promised through Peter in Acts 3:19-21:-

'Repent ye therefore,
.. and be converted,
.... that your sins may be blotted out,
...... when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
.. which before was preached unto you:
.... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
...... which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'

* Then the events spoken concerning the end of the age, would have taken place at that time. However, Israel did not repent, so it awaits a yet future day.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you for the reply Chris,
Yes, I know Jesus came for the house of Israel initially, and they of course, rejected Him. But what I was trying to say was that, just because only the 11 were present during His instructions, they were told to go into ALL nations "Matthew 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" In the hopes of provoking Israel to jealousy...salvation was offered to all. I'm not much of a scholar and, sorry if I'm not getting my thoughts across very well. So, what He told the Apostles should also apply to all Christians-not under the law?
nancy

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank you for the reply Chris,
Yes, I know Jesus came for the house of Israel initially, and they of course, rejected Him. But what I was trying to say was that, just because only the 11 were present during His instructions, they were told to go into ALL nations "Matthew 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" In the hopes of provoking Israel to jealousy...salvation was offered to all. I'm not much of a scholar and, sorry if I'm not getting my thoughts across very well. So, what He told the Apostles should also apply to all Christians-not under the law?
nancy

even those who cry LordLord I guess, Roman Centurions, Good Samaritans, etc. So that's like 4 of the "12"
and the more "Believers" who disagree is the surer you can be of that imo.
if the initial adding to Scripture does not make that obvious enough that is

Let the blind lead the blind