1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

[bbyrd009]

Paul could not be an elder (since he wasn’t married). I doubt it. He just worked in the role he was able to work in

Ha well Paul founded several Congs, right, so see what you are doing in not letting him be an "elder?" The "elders" would be like looking up to him if anything, right. But sure, i guess many are Hands, many are Feet, yada yada. Many are deceived too though, right, many will cry "LordLord"

 

[bbyrd009]

Rest up..

ha, as if

but ty

 

[amadeus]

hmm well tbh i had something else in mind, namely those who have not eaten what is it yet, but an individual Catholic might certainly be a Hegelian/determinist too, sure

This idea of not having eaten What Is It yet makes me think of the love we need to have for Truth even when we really don't know exactly what truth is yet. While we are seeing it only as through a "glass darkly" we are loving it and consuming it by faith. This is the as small child mentality. A baby has faith that when his mama feeds him it is good for him even though his mind really has not a clue. He justs sucks away in faith...

ah, ya, that strikes me as always studying but never coming to knowledge personally, tho i guess some might be called to that? Or maybe there is a time for everything, even periods of that? And imo when one finds themselves in an Empire in Decline/Decadence, might be a time for that, dunno.

From time to time I get into a more secular book not considered fictional and not directly scripture or about scripture. It can be surprising at times how such indulgences may yield spiritual increases.

 

[amadeus]

yes, nice, only "flood" and "rainbow" aren't well defined, even if "coat" is pretty obvious....so, Amnon ("Faithful") rapes Tamar, "Palm Tree/free exchange" which might easily be spiritual free exchange also, and now i could present a whole diff scenario i guess, wherein we "Christians" practically speaking cannot even really talk about Life, more abundantly anymore imo, see, Bc Tamar has been "raped" so to speak, by "Faithful," and her coat ruined or destroyed or whatever

Yes, and likely all of these scenarios you could present are at times used by God plus some others undoubtedly to accomplish some part of His purpose in this phase of His plan... the entire plan that is. What kind of vision do men have of this "entire plan"? The Life more abundantly is at least a major theme or subtheme within that plan.

 

[amadeus]

Anyway, a lot got left out there, a better illustration would be gotten by reviewing the etymology for the brother who raped her which isn't coming to me, been up all night, and there certainly might be more than one good interp of Tamar's coat too i guess.

I'm on limited service, on a train, catch up to ya here in a day or so, tonight maybe

Wishing you well with your service!

Thank God my service to survive as a man of flesh is no longer even limited. Rather I am simply dependent on the powers of men that be [as controlled or directed by God] to assure that my wife and I receive our daily meat and potatoes for the flesh.

I don't regularly get into etymologies, but I do have many of the meanings of proper names of people or places written out in the margins of my paper Bibles. They are very often helpful in understanding the situations described by the verses in which they are found. I have at least one Bible program where it is possible to make notes but being old school in the flesh I never have learned to read and study my Bible on a computer. I will write up notes on the computer so it won't be lost, but frequently I will have written the initial rough outline on a piece of paper made from wood. Me against the trees, I guess.

Further study of Amnon is in order. He was the first born son of David, but he was killed by Absalom another son of David who initiated rebellion against his father to become king. This whole history contains messages from God to men... if we can understand them. The problem I have found is that sometimes I cannot find a message when I am looking for it. Later on when I busy on something else along comes God's interpretation... sometimes.

 

[Earburner]

So, I guess when Paul and Timothy were writing the church in Thesalonica like they did in Corinth...
1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
Using your understanding the church didn’t become followers of Paul and timothy they became followers of themselves since they are all the same. I wonder....why would the church become followers of those guys? Maybe it is because they are AMBASSADORS for Christ. Did you ever think of that?
I don’t know why people have such an issue with this. We can’t all be everything for Christ. We are definitely not apostles. Why do we have to be ambassadors? Peter was an elder but Paul wasn’t. Do you think it really bothered him because Paul could not be an elder (since he wasn’t married). I doubt it. He just worked in the role he was able to work in.

A good clue would be, is to listen to the verse, as to what the Voice of the Holy Spirit is saying, if He is within you. If not, then you are only going to hear YOUR own thoughts, about what YOU THINK (guess) He means!
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
.
Only "Born Again Christians", have the power/authority of the Holy Spirit to lead people to Christ.
As for all other professing believers, who have not the Spirit of Christ, all that they can do is invite people to their church.
.
Only Born Again Christians come to others, in the name of the Lord.
Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see [perceive] me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
.
It is readily apparent to me, that you are a "professing believer", but you do not have His Holy Spirit, and as a result YOU ARE NOT YET "reconciled to God", through Christ.
.
Remember: ....if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

 

[Earburner]

Your "Day of Pentecost" is still waiting FOR YOU!!
Acts 2[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[CNKW3]

CNKW3 wrote:
"No I do not believe we are transformed in a miraculous way by Christ. Paul is clear that it is through preaching that we are changed. 2 Cor 4 tells us that Gods message is in earthen vessels. So, yes we even today are vessels for Christ. The difference is Paul was a specific CHOSEN vessel hand picked by Christ. We have not been chosen that way."
.
EB's Reply:
> You are absolutely incorrect, and are in need of stern correction!!
.
The Lord STILL "hand picks" those who ARE born again of His Spirit, for HIS purposes!!

I for one, was given a dream/vision, whereby in the dream, i was handed a book to read. It was titled
1 Timothy.
This all took place before I became a Born Again Christian. Prior to that, I was searching to know if there was a God. Apart from an occasional trip to a church service, when I was young, I was "unchurched" and a heathen. I knew nothing about the Bible, and no prior knowledge of 1 Timothy at all.

If it weren't for the God given dream/vision, I might have remained a heathen these past 40+ years. I thank God for the dream from Him.
Six Mos. later after it, via the book of John, and only by His guidance through His Holy Spirit, I have been saved since then.

No one else was involved in my coming to Christ for God's forgiveness, and his free Gift of His Holy Spirit! No invitation by men, or anyone of flesh guiding me. It was strictly ALL HIM!!
.
So therefore, I can fully attest that anyone, through faith, can be saved by God Himself alone!!
.
You know nothing about what you are talking about!!

Can you show me any example of anybody being saved ALONE. There is not one person under the new covenant that ever became a born again Christian by themselves. Alone. You can’t show me one conversion that happened that way. You don’t get to say your “saved”. God is the one who pronounces you saved. He does that after you obey what he has said one must do to be saved. Christ is the
author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY him. And nobody “got saved” alone. So how do you get to say your saved when nobody else did. You must really be a special case. Saul of Tarsus wasn’t even saved alone and look at the experience he had. Cornelius had a dream and he wasn’t saved alone. He was told to send for a man who would tell him WORDS by which he would be saved.
After those on Pentecost heard the gospel preached, believed, repented and were baptized in water. God then pronounced them “saved”.
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[CNKW3]

Hi CNKW,
I was wondering if you were on any other Christian forums, because you said "I am truly baffled by the lack of understanding on this board. How people argue with basic reading comprehension."
Which, causes me to believe that you have other forums to compare this one to thet, mostly agrees with what you are saying on this forum? Sorry about the run-on question, lol.

I am not currently on any others but have been on a couple of others in the past. I believe one was called bible discussion. It has been awhile though. Don’t remember the other one it was the first and was probably 7,8 years ago or so.

 

[CNKW3]

Just accept that everything i tell you without exception is the absolute truth and you'll be fine ok

that's why prolly

The issue I was talking about was the idea of being an ambassador? Why do you care or not. I have pointed out what the sentence structure and grammar states in 2 Cor 5:20. The WE in that sentence was not the church in Corinth. It referred to Paul and those with him. That’s basic grammar but everybody so far has a problem with it because they just have to be labeled an ambassador. Like you guys are something special.

 

[CNKW3]

wadr you are a Hegelian thinker still, ok, "either/or," no in between, determined if i may say so to extract a Fact so that You May Know, and thus be perceived as a Leader, etc.

So, "Peter was an elder," by which you infer the same def of "elder" we have, from the same def of "Church" we have now too, right, "church" to you means that mortgaged building with the guy signed a 501c3, a Contract for Jesus, all leading y'all in choruses of When We All Get to Heaven, yes?

When wadr that is not what "church" means at all imo, not even a little bit, even if some Church members in there i guess. Now does this make your pov "wrong?" Or am i wrong? Which one? See, the Q becomes irrelevant, there is no AT correct answer, Bc you cannot state a single AT from Scripture that i cannot refute from Scripture, as that is the nature of Truth.
"What is currently true will shortly be false," and all that maybe

Peter said he was an elder. There’s only one def for that. The qualifications are found in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1.
The church is not the building.
There is no AT correct answer? What does that mean? And so far I don’t think you have done that great of job of using scripture to contradict all that I say.

 

[CNKW3]

Ha well Paul founded several Congs, right, so see what you are doing in not letting him be an "elder?" The "elders" would be like looking up to him if anything, right. But sure, i guess many are Hands, many are Feet, yada yada. Many are deceived too though, right, many will cry "LordLord"

Yes Paul was an apostle just like Peter. The Bible tells us that God placed first in the church Apostles, prophets, then evangelist and pastors which is an elder. A pastor, elder, bishop, overseer, shepherd all refer to the same office. There were never any one man “pastor” churches like denominations have today.

 

[CNKW3]

A good clue would be, is to listen to the verse, as to what the Voice of the Holy Spirit is saying, if He is within you. If not, then you are only going to hear YOUR own thoughts, about what YOU THINK (guess) He means!
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
.
Only "Born Again Christians", have the power/authority of the Holy Spirit to lead people to Christ.
As for all other professing believers, who have not the Spirit of Christ, all that they can do is invite people to their church.
.
Only Born Again Christians come to others, in the name of the Lord.
Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see [perceive] me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
.
It is readily apparent to me, that you are a "professing believer", but you do not have His Holy Spirit, and as a result YOU ARE NOT YET "reconciled to God", through Christ.
.
Remember: ....if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

You quoted 2 Cor 5 but it did not change a thing. The argument still stands. The WE of that passage did not refer to the Christians in the church at Corinth. The WE is not the YOU in that sentence. Do you think a fourth grade English teacher would be able to break this sentence down?
Also..to come in the name of the lord is to come by his authority, by his direction. You have to do it his way. You have shown by your “conversion” experience that you did it your way and not Gods.

 

[CNKW3]

Your "Day of Pentecost" is still waiting FOR YOU!!
Acts 2[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Who is this to? And what does this mean? If it’s me it makes no sense. The day of Pentecost was an Israelite feast and that has all been done away with.
What promise do you think he’s talking about?

 

[Earburner]

Can you show me any example of anybody being saved ALONE. There is not one person under the new covenant that ever became a born again Christian by themselves. Alone. You can’t show me one conversion that happened that way. You don’t get to say your “saved”. God is the one who pronounces you saved. He does that after you obey what he has said one must do to be saved. Christ is the
author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY him. And nobody “got saved” alone. So how do you get to say your saved when nobody else did. You must really be a special case. Saul of Tarsus wasn’t even saved alone and look at the experience he had. Cornelius had a dream and he wasn’t saved alone. He was told to send for a man who would tell him WORDS by which he would be saved.
After those on Pentecost heard the gospel preached, believed, repented and were baptized in water. God then pronounced them “saved”.
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Listen to you, telling me how I came to know the Lord as my Savior! You are a real side show of "religious procedures", of what is an acceptable method, of how God SHOULD operate His own plan of salvation, for all who are lost!
.
Let me explain what did happen in my life, when all by myself and God, He convinced me of my need to be "born again" (quickened- made Alive to God).
In the privacy of my room, I repented of my sins, and through Jesus, I asked God for His forgiveness, and for His Holy Spirit to come into my life, so that I would be saved/spared from the 2nd death.
Luke 11[13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
.
In that moment, I left myself to Him, and waited in faith, believing that He would perform His Promise, simply because I ASKED, as He said I should!
.
As I waited, I continued reading the NT scriptures and prayed often, waiting on God.
It was about a month, in the middle my studying
my wife's Bible (I didn't have one), when suddenly I was filled with exceeding joy and happiness, knowing that my sins were forgiven!
I was so joyful about it, I began telling everyone about Jesus/God and their need to be SAVED. I was filled with His Holy Spirit!!
I couldn't shut up about it.
That was in 1975, and I have not stopped telling everyone, who will listen, how wonderful our God and Savior Jesus is.
.
There is so much more that He has done in my life, but there is no time, nor room here to explain it!!
I know Who Jesus is!!

 

[Earburner]

Who is this to? And what does this mean? If it’s me it makes no sense. The day of Pentecost was an Israelite feast and that has all been done away with.
What promise do you think he’s talking about?

Yes, it was to you, and yes again, I do know why it doesn't make sense to you.
Read 1 Cor. 2:14, and learn WHY!!
.
You have not yet been reconciled with God. You have not fully entered into your "conversion" with Christ to God. Mat. 18:3, John 3:3

 

[Butterfly]

Yes, it was to you, and yes again, I do know why it doesn't make sense to you.
Read 1 Cor. 2:14, and learn WHY!!
.
You have not yet been reconciled with God. You have not fully entered into your "conversion" with Christ to God. Mat. 18:3, John 3:3

Is it as clear cut as that Earburner - I came to faith ' out of the blue ' when I was about 24yrs old - Just felt a prompt to go to church, didn't understand a word, but each Sunday that same prompt would come - I then experienced a ' limbo kind of phase' I didn't have peace - I couldn't go back to how I felt before, and yet I didn't have the Lord either. This continued for a few months, then one day I felt this ' quickening ' within me - that's the only way I could explain it. A few days later , while listening to a sermon on Ephesians chapter 1 , I just fell to my knees in tears, totally aware that God was interested in my life. The church I went along to was an evangelical church, they were not really into the gifts of the spirit, but I started to grow as a Christian. I remember thinking that those Christians ' who had a word from the Lord ' were a bit weird !!
Then I started to question many things, and started to experience an awareness that I did believe in the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit. Over the years that followed I started to experience , pictures , discernment and often had words laid on my heart( it's more long winded than that !! Lol )
I went along to a church that was more open.
However I have never viewed the Christians that I had known in the past as non believers, and certainly never have felt that they were not right with God. Isn't it more a case of God not forcing anything on his people, if they choose not to be open, then they will simply not experience more than they have in the moment. I was open, and wanted more - so God could work with that.
I guess it's one thing that does bother me within the forum, that where people stand with God is often challenged due to non agreement with certain things, as if it is one or the other, and cannot be a mixture of the two- different.
Rita

 

[bbyrd009]

The issue I was talking about was the idea of being an ambassador? Why do you care or not. I have pointed out what the sentence structure and grammar states in 2 Cor 5:20. The WE in that sentence was not the church in Corinth. It referred to Paul and those with him. That’s basic grammar but everybody so far has a problem with it because they just have to be labeled an ambassador. Like you guys are something special.

ah, well it didn't occur to me that ambassadors are perceived as "special" i guess, "a person who acts as a rep or promoter of a specific activity" needn't be special imo

"I have pointed out the yadayada" "that's basic grammar" ha, good stuff, ty.
21He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

so, pretty much all in your head i guess, it really is pretty common ok, i don't think anyone gets all of the Bible?

 

[bbyrd009]

Peter said he was an elder. There’s only one def for that. The qualifications are found in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1.
The church is not the building.
There is no AT correct answer? What does that mean? And so far I don’t think you have done that great of job of using scripture to contradict all that I say.

ah, i thought i was more or less agreeing with you, except for whenever you make a statement? "We" is obviously ambiguous and undefined up there, and obviously more than one def for elder, so what is there to say? Apparently a fight to the death is in order? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes Paul was an apostle just like Peter. The Bible tells us that God placed first in the church Apostles, prophets, then evangelist and pastors which is an elder. A pastor, elder, bishop, overseer, shepherd all refer to the same office. There were never any one man “pastor” churches like denominations have today.

ok, ty