Scripture is not the last word.

[tzcho2]

Mat 13:52, Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Matt 13: 1-53 Jesus spoke 8 parables describing the coming kingdom of heaven, the first 4 he spoke to the mixed multitude the second 4 to His 12 disciples. In the parables & speaking to His 12 disciples, Jesus describes His view of His Kingdom & His future church and the great commission through His church and leadership of it. The householder describes the duties of the head of the household, the church leadership. Jesus is describing the duties of His appointed teachers/pastors/who are ministers of God who are charged with the duty to to preach the Word of God with their traditional understanding as the scribes, and to teach the old & also bring forth new insights in their roles as teacher/pastor/ministers do preach and applying the word to the present.
Similarly Apostle Paul in 2Tim 2:15 admonishing the servants of Jesus to be ministers of the Gospel to study, to be servants & workman of God to rightly divide the word of truth...
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Matthew 13:52 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

 

[justbyfaith]

Matt 13: 1-53 Jesus spoke 8 parables describing the coming kingdom of heaven, the first 4 he spoke to the mixed multitude the second 4 to His 12 disciples. In the parables & speaking to His 12 disciples, Jesus describes His view of His Kingdom & His future church and the great commission through His church and leadership of it. The householder describes the duties of the head of the household, the church leadership. Jesus is describing the duties of His appointed teachers/pastors/who are ministers of God who are charged with the duty to to preach the Word of God with their traditional understanding as the scribes, and to teach the old & also bring forth new insights in their roles as teacher/pastor/ministers do preach and applying the word to the present.
Similarly Apostle Paul in 2Tim 2:15 admonishing the servants of Jesus to be ministers of the Gospel to study, to be servants & workman of God to rightly divide the word of truth...
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Matthew 13:52 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

No argument there...nothing that you have said there is in contradiction to my point.

 

[tzcho2]

No argument there...nothing that you have said there is in contradiction to my point.

The OP claim is false. I believe your point was for the purpose of misrepresenting & misusing this scripture in order to try to back up that false teaching. This scripture is not speaking about this ages's self-appointed false teachers/self appointed false prophets. It does not give license for the false teachers or false prophets of this age to pretend they have new revelations from God although it's a prime example of taking scriptures out of context to twist. These are spiritually deceived apostle wannabes who exalt themselves as equal to the Holy scriptures.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

There are no new revelations. That’s irks these who hear voices and get caught up like Paul and John did. It’s ludicrous thinking Brother.

I've heard several say they have been to heaven and back, and that they take frequent trips there. To challenge these teachings as false they then say you're rejecting God, don't believe, don't believe in the power of God.

 

[ScottA]

Matt 13: 1-53 Jesus spoke 8 parables describing the coming kingdom of heaven, the first 4 he spoke to the mixed multitude the second 4 to His 12 disciples. In the parables & speaking to His 12 disciples, Jesus describes His view of His Kingdom & His future church and the great commission through His church and leadership of it. The householder describes the duties of the head of the household, the church leadership. Jesus is describing the duties of His appointed teachers/pastors/who are ministers of God who are charged with the duty to to preach the Word of God with their traditional understanding as the scribes, and to teach the old & also bring forth new insights in their roles as teacher/pastor/ministers do preach and applying the word to the present.
Similarly Apostle Paul in 2Tim 2:15 admonishing the servants of Jesus to be ministers of the Gospel to study, to be servants & workman of God to rightly divide the word of truth...
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Matthew 13:52 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

If you are up to stating these truths, why then do you not believe it enough to receive what you have never heard before of what is "new", as if just waiting to die?

 

[ScottA]

No argument there...nothing that you have said there is in contradiction to my point.

I wholeheartedly agree!

 

[ScottA]

The OP claim is false. I believe your point was for the purpose of misrepresenting & misusing this scripture in order to try to back up that false teaching. This scripture is not speaking about this ages's self-appointed false teachers/self appointed false prophets. It does not give license for the false teachers or false prophets of this age to pretend they have new revelations from God although it's a prime example of taking scriptures out of context to twist. These are spiritually deceived apostle wannabes who exalt themselves as equal to the Holy scriptures.

Do you believe there are exceptions (according to what is written)?

And how do you know what is "twisted" from what is "new" and being untwisted? (Matthew 13:52) The scriptures are full of examples of the "new" revelations from God being taken as "twisted" and just how wrong the people of God can be in rejecting the message. How are you any different if you close that door?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

How much better is it to be kind to and/or give a cup of cold water to the true messengers of the Holy Ghost who bring to you the message that God died for you and rose again.

You (Christendom) believe it was God who became flesh, God who died for mankind, while we (Jehovah's witnesses) believe it was The Only Begotten Son who became flesh and died for mankind. Christendom believes it was God who rose from the dead Jehovah's witnesses believe it was God who raised his Only Begotten Son from the dead.

@BARNEY BRIGHT,

You should at least consider that God raised Jesus from the dead according to Romans 10:9; and that He who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead was delivered because of our offences and was raised again for our justification according to Romans 4:24-25. Is this not speaking of Jesus our Lord Himself?

2Jo 1:8, Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10, If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11, For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

How much better is it to be kind to and/or give a cup of cold water to the true messengers of the Holy Ghost who bring to you the message that God died for you and rose again.

@BARNEY BRIGHT,

You should at least consider that God raised Jesus from the dead according to Romans 10:9; and that He who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead was delivered because of our offences and was raised again for our justification according to Romans 4:24-25. Is this not speaking of Jesus our Lord Himself?

Whether or not you believe that God has authored the best book ever written and that the world is his greatest achievement, or that the natural comes first and is least compared with the spiritual which comes last and greatest, and the kingdom of heaven is his true glory...is only of consequence to you. It doesn't change the truth.
You deciding that the end of "all truth" came before the actual end and choosing of God Himself...well, again, doesn't change the truth: The End is the end.

And now you interpret Daniel's prophecy in error. Wherein you seem to have decided also that the Jews and apostles are the Last, rather than Christ himself.
There are two things that Paul ministered to the Hebrews, both of which have eluded you. The commandment was to feed both the immature and also the mature. As "imitators" the lambs would receive their milk. But you stopped there thinking that the mature were not to be weened, that when children have grown, they should not put away childish things. And that is were you remain, even after being taught of both needs, to meditate on the scriptures, but also to leave the outward school master in due time and join the Master within. What did you think...that you would get fat on milk, die, and wake up to your graduation...when it is written that those who remain are to enter the kingdom alive? How did you miss all these things in your studies?
Those two passages are not all that is written of the death, life, and quickening, for our times. But they should have been enough for you to side with the advancement of the spiritual kingdom of God, and the building of the new heaven and earth that came upon men unaware since the time of Christ, rather than siding with those who don't even know the scriptures well enough to know that those passages are just a few of the many telling of the business of God to fulfill his perfection by the Spirit. Because, not only do you not know this...but you are actively helping the enemy, who would have you drown in your milk.

As I said before, you and I are going to disagree, but I don't think I deserve the abuse that you deliver because someone disagrees with you. People should be able to disagree without all the judging, after all, we are all imperfect human beings. You're trying to intimidate people to get them to agree with you in my opinion. I think, however, that intimidation like that, is a form of brainwashing. You may get a lot of people to side with you I think it's brainwashing, however.

 

[ScottA]

as I said before you and I

Okay, it is confirmed then. No excuse.

 

[justbyfaith]

The OP claim is false. I believe your point was for the purpose of misrepresenting & misusing this scripture in order to try to back up that false teaching. This scripture is not speaking about this ages's self-appointed false teachers/self appointed false prophets. It does not give license for the false teachers or false prophets of this age to pretend they have new revelations from God although it's a prime example of taking scriptures out of context to twist. These are spiritually deceived apostle wannabes who exalt themselves as equal to the Holy scriptures.

It remains true that every scribe that is instructed in the kingdom of God will bring out of his treasure things both new and old.

This is saying that new things do come from the minds of those who are faithful; and this is all I am saying.
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I've heard several say they have been to heaven and back, and that they take frequent trips there. To challenge these teachings as false they then say you're rejecting God, don't believe, don't believe in the power of God.

I will say unashamedly that I think that I may have been to heaven and back, though my eyes were blinded to what was there. I experienced the glories of heaven for about four minutes. I told Jesus, "I have to go back and tell people about this love!" It was a glorious, ecstatic feeling just to be in the full presence of the Lord. I did not see anything for my eyes were withheld from beholding the glories of sight that exist there.

Paul himself had such an experience, and if you invalidate my experience then I think that you also invalidate his.

2Co 12:1, It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2, I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3, And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
2Co 12:4, How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
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re #508 (@BARNEY BRIGHT, Scripture is not the last word.),

I would appreciate it if you would keep your statements outside of what is said to be quoted by me in the program; you made your statements within the realm of what is quoted as being said by me. I am not a Jehovah's Witness and do not want to be misrepresented as one. You need to make it clear in your post that those are your words, not mine.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Paul himself had such an experience, and if you invalidate my experience then I think that you also invalidate his.

2Co 12:1, It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2, I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3, And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
2Co 12:4, How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

@Preacher4Truth...see, I told you. Ppl HAVE to be on par with Apostles Paul and John. If we invalidate his, then we must invalidate theirs.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Preacher4Truth...see, I told you. Ppl HAVE to be on par with Apostles Paul and John. If we invalidate his, then we must invalidate theirs.

You are in effect calling me a liar...but I am accountable to the Lord for what I am about to say...what I have said to you is true, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

Inasmuch as you do something to one of the least of these His brethren, you do it unto Him.

So call me a liar if you wish, I am one of the least of these.

And also, I have no need in my ego to be on a par with apostles Paul and John.

 

[justbyfaith]

and that they take frequent trips there.

I don't think that I have taken many trips there; as far as I know, my trip to heaven was a one-time experience. Though someone once told my older brothers that she believed that I slept in so much because I went to heaven in my dream-life when I was sleeping; I am unaware of whether this is true because I so often do not remember my dreams; and the one-time trip to heaven was distinctly different from anything I have experienced in my sleeping hours.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are in effect calling me a liar...but I am accountable to the Lord for what I am about to say...what I have said to you is true, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

Inasmuch as you do something to one of the least of these His brethren, you do it unto Him.

So call me a liar if you wish, I am one of the least of these.

And also, I have no need in my ego to be on a par with apostles Paul and John.

No, I am calling you deceived. You honestly believe it, but I don’t believe it holds up to the scrutiny of the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, I am calling you deceived. You honestly believe it, but I don’t believe it holds up to the scrutiny of the Bible.

How lovely...

I find it interesting that when we look into the realm of who is deceived and who is not, it is always the other person who is deceived and not ourselves.

It's alright, I don't have to defend my experience to you. I know how intense the joy was that I felt in that hour; and I know the change that it made in my life. Since you did not have the same experience, I don't expect you to agree with mine or even believe in the validity of it. Because you have your own experience; and I suppose that your bible tells you that Paul was not caught up to the third heaven. Mine tells me that he was; although that is not the basis for my relating to you of my own experience: it does validate it however as being a biblical experience so that my own experience does indeed hold up to the scrutiny of the Bible.

 

[SovereignGrace]

How lovely...

I find it interesting that when we look into the realm of who is deceived and who is not, it is always the other person who is deceived and not ourselves.

It's alright, I don't have to defend my experience to you. I know how intense the joy was that I felt in that hour; and I know the change that it made in my life. Since you did not have the same experience, I don't expect you to agree with mine or even believe in the validity of it. Because you have your own experience; and I suppose that your bible tells you that Paul was not caught up to the third heaven. Mine tells me that he was; although that is not the basis for my relating to you of my own experience: it does validate it however as being a biblical experience so that my own experience does indeed hold up to the scrutiny of the Bible.

Again, you believe it. Ppl believed they saw a female spirit walking and Our Lady of Fatima came to fruition. Joseph Smith believed he was visited by the angel Moroni and Mormonism began. Ellen G. White claimed over 2,000 dreams and visions from God and SDA came to fruition.

That’s why I believe you’re deceived. Visions, dreams, anything outside the closed canon of scripture is not biblical.

 

[SovereignGrace]

How lovely...

I find it interesting that when we look into the realm of who is deceived and who is not, it is always the other person who is deceived and not ourselves.

It's alright, I don't have to defend my experience to you. I know how intense the joy was that I felt in that hour; and I know the change that it made in my life. Since you did not have the same experience, I don't expect you to agree with mine or even believe in the validity of it. Because you have your own experience; and I suppose that your bible tells you that Paul was not caught up to the third heaven. Mine tells me that he was; although that is not the basis for my relating to you of my own experience: it does validate it however as being a biblical experience so that my own experience does indeed hold up to the scrutiny of the Bible.

You’re 100% correct you don’t have to defend your experience to me. But you do have to stand and give an account for this.

 

[justbyfaith]

Visions, dreams, anything outside the closed canon of scripture is not biblical.

Here is a biblical basis for it:

Joe 2:28, And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Act 2:16, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17, And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18, And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19, And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I suppose that you are of the opinion that we are no longer in the last days; and that the Spirit is not being poured out.

Note that the passages in question tell us that when His Spirit is poured out, dreams and visions will be the meal of the day.

 

[justbyfaith]

You’re 100% correct you don’t have to defend your experience to me. But you do have to stand and give an account for this.

When I stand before the Lord and give an account, I believe that He will say unto me, "Well done thou good and faithful servant: enter into the joy of thy Lord!"

I must say unequivocably that my experience does not make me infallible as far as I'm concerned. I am only a man; and I still do make mistakes.

So I say to you concerning anything that I may be trying to teach you: be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11): search the scriptures daily to see whether the things that I am preaching to you are so.

Ultimately I could fail in giving you the perfect truth: but you can be sure that the perfect truth is given to you in God's holy word. I may miss the mark in the way that I understand what is written; of course I will try to give you the truth; for I know that I am accountable to the Lord for what I say to you.

But ultimately, the responsibility for your own soul belongs to you. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you do this, you will be less likely to be deceived by any mistakes on my part; and for that reason I encourage you to do it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Here is a biblical basis for it:

Joe 2:28, And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Act 2:16, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17, And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18, And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19, And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I suppose that you are of the opinion that we are no longer in the last days; and that the Spirit is not being poured out.

Note that the passages in question tell us that when His Spirit is poured out, dreams and visions will be the meal of the day.

The Joel 2 passage was fulfilled in Acts of the Apostles 2. You defeated your own stance by using them.