Soul and Spirit

[101G]

You gave no Scripture to support your view. Analogies do not replace Scripture.

Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Job 7:11 "Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.

Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein"

to make the point, one can walk in the same spirit alike, but not as souls. example John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. but not in the "soul" of Elijah.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

I learned something different then what I was taught tonight, so want to look up some scriptures and study about it. The soul and spirit are separate? I always thought they were the same. He said many versions interpret them the same, but they are different. Soul is the mind. But then there is this verse:

and you shall love the Lord your G od with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind , and with all your strength .’
MARK 12:30 NASB

Just was looking up a few verses... Thoughts?


What is the Soul?

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
EZEKIEL 18:4 NASB

For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.
PSALMS 107:9 NASB

And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.” ’ But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’ So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
LUKE 12:19‭-‬21 NASB




What is the Spirit?

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
JOHN 4:24 NASB

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
ROMANS 8:16 NASB

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
GALATIANS 5:25 NASB

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
JOHN 3:6 NASB

I hope this becomes useful to you. I hope it is also easy-to-read. Just expanded on your thoughts into this writing a bit.

The Spirit of God created the human spirit as two components: the first is the heart, which is the most inner part, of consciousness and knowledge of being or existing; also called the ‘I am’ or the ‘I will be.’ The second part is the outer part of its mind – the reflection of the heart’s activities.

The inner component of the human spirit, the heart, is the nature, character or personality of the spirit being. It possesses the spirit DNA or blueprint. It is the source of its energy or power that leads the mind of the spirit into a specific ‘direction’ and reflection (‘what’s on your mind’ if you will). It sets the direction of its mind with its type of thoughts and intentions; transforming them into mental activities and images and imaginations. The mind and its thoughts are thus the product of the spirit’s heart.

Now the spirit (heart and mind) is inactive or ‘dead’ until the heart of the human spirit powers the human body or host vessel through the engagement of its mind into the body – the brain functions and lungs functions for air and blood flow.

A soul by definition then is always living. It is always living because the human spirit animates its natural body and become alive or living.

The spirit functions within its natural body. The purpose of the body is to feed or provide information from all sources, to the spirit’s heart through its mind, to control the body’s non-automated functions or activities - to move and think etc.

The spirit keeps the natural body functioning by its power, as long as the body is functional or not beyond repair. If the body become irreparable and its vital areas are non-functional, the resident spirit disconnects and leaves the body to search for another body to activate or bring to life and live in it as a new soul.

The spirit itself is immortal, as it is created by God. He is the owner of every spirit. The human soul however is mortal until it becomes immortal with the spirit inhabiting a body made of energy and light.

Hebrews 4:12 spells out the components of the soul and spirit in similar terms as already discussed above.

“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, and pierces even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and is quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The verse is interpreted that the word of God or his heart (and mind), cuts into and sees inside the human soul and also cuts inside and sees inside the human spirit, into its heart, its most inner place.

Cutting apart the soul means separating the spirit and body as a metaphoric visible bone joint.

Cutting apart the spirit means separating the heart and the mind as the metaphoric invisible bone marrow.

And then the word of God also cuts into the deepest part, to the personality of a person, the heart of the spirit; knowing its thoughts and intentions it emanates into its mind.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Mayflower]

Good questions since there is a lot of misunderstanding.

1. John the Baptist was the one who said that he baptized with water, but the One coming after him (and far greater than him) would *baptize* with the Holy Ghost (Mt 3:11). [For the present we will leave the matter of "and with fire"].

BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
2. The word baptism means immersion, but it is also connected with the outpouring of the Spirit (as on the day of Pentecost). This meant in reality that those who repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ would receive THE GIFT of the Holy Ghost. Christ and God would be the givers of that gift, therefore Christ would be "baptizing with" the Holy Ghost: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

INDWELLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
3. When the Holy Spirit is given, many supernatural things happen at the same time, including the New Birth (see Titus 3:4-7). But as we know from other Scriptures, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer permanently, and to seal the believer as God's purchased possession.

BEING FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT
4. This is would be the same as walking in the Spirit, or being totally surrendered to God and totally under the control of the Spirit. Which means that the old Adamic nature (or "flesh") would not be in control. So you could say that perfect obedience to God and Christ is the same as being filled with the Spirit, and our example is Christ Himself. Jesus was always and continuously "filled with the Spirit" (and it had nothing to do with speaking in tongues, since He only spoke Aramaic, and perhaps Greek when needed). So this is not so much a matter of *asking* to be filled as it is to doing God's will (Romans 12:1,2).

THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
5. There are for the edification of others and each and every Christian has at least one of about 20 spiritual gifts (several passages list them).

This definitely clears up the terms. Thanks Enoch! I am sure there are differences in opinion somewhat in the differences of these too, but this gives me a good idea. I used to remember when I first got saved how trusting in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins was the same as "asking Jesus into my heart." This discussion even clears this up if any children were to ask.

 

[Mayflower]

I hope this becomes useful to you. I hope it is also easy-to-read. Just expanded on your thoughts into this writing a bit.

The Spirit of God created the human spirit as two components: the first is the heart, which is the most inner part, of consciousness and knowledge of being or existing; also called the ‘I am’ or the ‘I will be.’ The second part is the outer part of its mind – the reflection of the heart’s activities.

The inner component of the human spirit, the heart, is the nature, character or personality of the spirit being. It possesses the spirit DNA or blueprint. It is the source of its energy or power that leads the mind of the spirit into a specific ‘direction’ and reflection (‘what’s on your mind’ if you will). It sets the direction of its mind with its type of thoughts and intentions; transforming them into mental activities and images and imaginations. The mind and its thoughts are thus the product of the spirit’s heart.

Now the spirit (heart and mind) is inactive or ‘dead’ until the heart of the human spirit powers the human body or host vessel through the engagement of its mind into the body – the brain functions and lungs functions for air and blood flow.

A soul by definition then is always living. It is always living because the human spirit animates its natural body and become alive or living.

The spirit functions within its natural body. The purpose of the body is to feed or provide information from all sources, to the spirit’s heart through its mind, to control the body’s non-automated functions or activities - to move and think etc.

The spirit keeps the natural body functioning by its power, as long as the body is functional or not beyond repair. If the body become irreparable and its vital areas are non-functional, the resident spirit disconnects and leaves the body to search for another body to activate or bring to life and live in it as a new soul.

The spirit itself is immortal, as it is created by God. He is the owner of every spirit. The human soul however is mortal until it becomes immortal with the spirit inhabiting a body made of energy and light.

Hebrews 4:12 spells out the components of the soul and spirit in similar terms as already discussed above.

“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, and pierces even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and is quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The verse is interpreted that the word of God or his heart (and mind), cuts into and sees inside the human soul and also cuts inside and sees inside the human spirit, into its heart, its most inner place.

Cutting apart the soul means separating the spirit and body as a metaphoric visible bone joint.

Cutting apart the spirit means separating the heart and the mind as the metaphoric invisible bone marrow.

And then the word of God also cuts into the deepest part, to the personality of a person, the heart of the spirit; knowing its thoughts and intentions it emanates into its mind.

Bless you,

APAK

Thanks for explaining this verse APAK! This is another one I have just read and memorized and never really stopped to just think about it. I didn't even see the metaphor. God is really revealing some things to me through this discussion.

 

[OzSpen]

Interesting discussion.

Forgive me for not having had time yet to read your articles, Oz, but my first question would be how then do you translate and interpret all three words in 1 Thessalonians 5:23? It would seem that using either "life" or "person" as a translation of ψυχὴ would be a bit redundant if the word weren't defining a specific part of their being that was distinct from the other two.

HIH,

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ESV): ‘Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ’.

This verse is not an easy one to interpret for some of the following reasons. I’ll do my best. I may have to put it into 2 posts. It has caused lots of long hours for Bible exegetes over the years. Therefore, I will not give a simplistic answer, especially in light of these verses:

Matt 10:28 (NIV): Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell’. No ‘spirit’ here.

Matt 22:37 (NIV): ‘Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' No ‘spirit’ here.

Mark 8:36 (NLT): ‘And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?’ No ‘spirit’ here.

Mark 12:30 (NIV): ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' No ‘spirit’ here.

Acts 20:10 (NASB): ‘But Paul went down and fell upon him and after embracing him, he said, “Do not be troubled, for his life [psuche] is in him.”’ Psuche is rightly translated as ‘life’. No use of ‘spirit’ here.

1 Cor 2:14-15 (NASB), ‘But a natural [psuchikos] man does not accept the things of the Spirit [pneuma] of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually [pneumatikos] appraised. But he who is spiritual [pneumatikos] appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one’. So, the adjectives based on psuche and pneuma are different in meaning.

1 Cor 7:34 (NIV), ‘An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband’. No ‘soul’ here.

Rom 1:9 (NIV), ‘God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you’. No ‘soul’ or ‘body’ here.

Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’. Soul and spirit are clearly different words.

1 Pet 3:9 (NIV): ‘After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits….’ No ‘souls’ here.

Rev 8:9 (NASB): ‘and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life [psuche], died; and a third of the ships were destroyed’. No ‘spirit’ here.

William Hendricksen provides exegesis in his commentary to support this conclusion:

a. The trichotomistic appearance of the passage is considerably reduced as soon as it is seen that the words in dispute are found not in one clause but in two clauses:

hence not: “And may your spirit and soul and body be kept …”
but
“And without flaw may be your spirit,
and your soul-and-body
…………………………….
May it be kept.”

But thus rendering the passage we can do justice to its grammatical syntax and even to its word-order [and may your the spirit, the soul, and the body be preserved (completely) whole].

b. Every trace of trichotomy which still remains can be obliterated in one of these ways:

(1) by considering the word “soul” to have the same meaning as “spirit,” the change from “spirit” to “soul” having been introduced for stylistic reasons. This eliminates trichotomy.

(2) by accepting the position that although both “spirit” and “soul” refer to the same immaterial substance (hence, no trichotomy here either!), this substance is viewed first (in one clause) from the aspect of its relation to God – the “spirit” being man’s power of grasping divine things, his invisible essence viewed as a recipient of divine influences and as an organ of divine worship - ; then, in the next clause, from the aspect of its relation to the lower realm, as the seat of sensations, affections, desires. This could well be the true element in theory e.

If a choice must be made, I would prefer this second alternative. It is in harmony with the distinction between the two words which is present elsewhere (as has been shown). There is also an interesting parallel in a somewhat similar passage, Heb. 4:12, where it is obvious that the two words have distinct meanings.

The main point has been proved, namely, that, either way, every trace of trichotomy has disappeared (Hendriksen & Kistemaker 1955/1984:150).​

I have a problem with this kind of explanation, although it has many exegetical values, as it seems to be a begging the question fallacy (circular reasoning) where the non-trichotomous view (dichotomy) is assumed at the beginning and leads to the same non-trichotomous (dichotomous) conclusion.

For a detailed discussion of the difficulties with this verse, see the commentary: William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker1955/1984. New Testament Commentary: Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic, pp. 146-150.

See my next post for a shorter discussion that presupposes the verses cited in this post.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Interesting discussion.

Forgive me for not having had time yet to read your articles, Oz, but my first question would be how then do you translate and interpret all three words in 1 Thessalonians 5:23? It would seem that using either "life" or "person" as a translation of ψυχὴ would be a bit redundant if the word weren't defining a specific part of their being that was distinct from the other two.

HIH,

A simpler explanation of 1 Thess 5:23:

Let’s examine Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’.

This verse states that we can differentiate between a human being’s unseen part and what is seen. But it is not decisive in dividing soul from spirit. From other Scriptures such as 1 Cor 2:14-15 and 1 Thess 5:23 we find the immaterial part of the “spirit” relating to God and able to discern God’s Spirit and Scripture. The immaterial part, called the “soul” indicates that which relates to life in the body and is associated with perceptions and desires – often carnal.

Also, at death what happens? Is it the soul or spirit that leaves the body?

The soul leaves the body at death:

• Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.

• Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

• Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.

However, the spirit leaves the body at death:

• James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.

• Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.

• Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.

• Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.

Therefore, there is enough biblical evidence to indicate that at death the immaterial part (whether soul or spirit) leaves the body. i.e. the immaterial part leaves the material to go to the Intermediate State.

John Calvin concluded: ‘We, following the whole doctrine of God, will hold for certain that man is composed and consisteth of two parts, that is to say, body and soul’.

Oz

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have a problem with this kind of explanation, although it has many exegetical values, as it seems to be begging the question (circular reasoning) where the non-trichotomous view (dichotomy) is assumed at the beginning and leads to the same non-trichotomous (dichotomous) conclusion.

I agree. I got the impression he was approaching the verse with preconceived assumptions already set in stone.

Let’s examine Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’.

This verse states that we can differentiate between a human being’s unseen part and what is seen. But it is not decisive in dividing soul from spirit. From other Scriptures such as 1 Cor 2:14-15 and 1 Thess 5:23 we find the immaterial part of the “spirit” relating to God and able to discern God’s Spirit and Scripture. The immaterial part, called the “soul” indicates that which relates to life in the body and is associated with perceptions and desires – often carnal.

It appears you (is this you, or a quote from someone?) are arguing here that the verse is referring to the dividing of soul & spirit from joints & marrow, rather than spirit from soul and joints from marrow. I might find it interesting discussing the meaning of these phrases in context and your interpretations of them. But my answer in the immediate would be that this argument might hold a little more weight if it likewise didn't seem to be dismissing 1 Thessalonians 5:23 out of hand as not actually making a distinction between spirit and soul, when there is no parallel construction there. It's simply spirit, and soul, and body. The natural reading favors trichotomy, whereas reading dichotomy into the verse seems unnatural and forced.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I learned something different then what I was taught tonight, so want to look up some scriptures and study about it. The soul and spirit are separate? I always thought they were the same. He said many versions interpret them the same, but they are different. Soul is the mind. But then there is this verse:

and you shall love the Lord your G od with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind , and with all your strength .’
MARK 12:30 NASB

Just was looking up a few verses... Thoughts?


What is the Soul?

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
EZEKIEL 18:4 NASB

For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.
PSALMS 107:9 NASB

And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.” ’ But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’ So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
LUKE 12:19‭-‬21 NASB

See our blog post entitled, "What is a Soul? for more on this.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Yes, they are different according to the Bible, but very closely connected. Here is one verse that makes it clear: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23)

Man is a tripartite being. Upon death the Christian's soul and spirit go to be with Christ in Heaven while the body is buried in a grave. The unsaved go to Sheol/Hades.

This is baloney, the foolishness taught by men and the apostate church, it totally contradicts the plain teachings of the scriptures.

 

[APAK]

HIH,

A simpler explanation of 1 Thess 5:23:

Let’s examine Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’.

This verse states that we can differentiate between a human being’s unseen part and what is seen. But it is not decisive in dividing soul from spirit. From other Scriptures such as 1 Cor 2:14-15 and 1 Thess 5:23 we find the immaterial part of the “spirit” relating to God and able to discern God’s Spirit and Scripture. The immaterial part, called the “soul” indicates that which relates to life in the body and is associated with perceptions and desires – often carnal.

Also, at death what happens? Is it the soul or spirit that leaves the body?

The soul leaves the body at death:

• Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.

• Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

• Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.

However, the spirit leaves the body at death:

• James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.

• Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.

• Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.

• Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.

Therefore, there is enough biblical evidence to indicate that at death the immaterial part (whether soul or spirit) leaves the body. i.e. the immaterial part leaves the material to go to the Intermediate State.

John Calvin concluded: ‘We, following the whole doctrine of God, will hold for certain that man is composed and consisteth of two parts, that is to say, body and soul’.

Oz

Spence in Oz, there are explanations for your 3 verses you gave believing that it is actually the soul that leaves the body. I disagree entirely because by definition of the term ‘soul’ it is impossible for it to entirety depart ‘out of’ this earth. One part stays in the earth…and there is only one part that does the leaving… IMO....cheers

Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing, she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.

Now in here, Rachel’s soul is departing because it means her body is not functioning anymore and it shall not be able to be animated at all in the near future; it shall ‘depart’ and decay into the earth. Secondly, her spirit triggers this process has it also ‘departs’ away from her body first, and Rachel now is NOT a living soul anymore. The soul has the body and spirit and both ‘depart.’ Although her identity still lives in her spirit…to a new body and to become a new spirit soul…in the Kingdom?

Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

Those who kill the flesh body versus one that can cause the spirit to become dead or non-functioning, with a body attachment. The person is not conscious…and that person is nor being or is ‘killed.’

We are talking here of our future spiritual soul state and not our current flesh soul state. There are two future options: BECOMING a living spiritual soul of immortality or BECOMING a ‘dead’ spirit that is not functioning because it has no attached spiritual body, and therefore is not a spiritual soul. No spiritual soul means a spirit that cannot live or function as intended. It is ‘killed.’ Or becomes dead…make a loop again…

Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.

Now here as similar to the previous explanation, souls indeed are under the altar. Those under the altar have a spirit body that makes the spirit function and therefore they ARE a spirit soul; they are alive. They now ARE NOT a flesh soul as we are as the living, today. Their spirits fled out of them and they attached to new bodies and BECAME souls once more.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[101G]

Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.

Now here as similar to the previous explanation, souls indeed are under the altar. Those under the altar have a spirit body that makes the spirit function and therefore they ARE a spirit soul; they are alive. They now ARE NOT a flesh soul as we are as the living, today. Their spirits fled out of them and they attached to new bodies and BECAME souls once more.

Not saying that you're right or wrong. but I have a question, well several.
#1. Rev 6:9 is not in heaven, the alter is where the sacrifice was made, here on earth, at the cross. those souls here is on earth. but at death the spirit returns to the one who gave it, God.

#2. you said these souls had a spirit body. please explain.

#3. what cried out was in the blood of these martus, as was with Abel. Genesis 4:10 "And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground". now the life of all flesh is in the blood, see Leviticus 17:11 & 14. the term "Life" here in the blood is
H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
2. (abstractly) of vitality.
{used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}
[from H5314]
KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Root(s): H5314
and man is a breathing creature, which have the breath of life. well if the LIFE, or as some say the "soul" is in the life of man, then no blood goes to heaven, only the spirit.
the blood is right here in the ground. as job said, Job 7:20 "I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
Job 7:21 "And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

now Abel blood called out after his "DEATH" from the ground/dust of the earth. the spirit returns to God. so who or what was calling out from the ground? this needs reconciling.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

Not saying that you're right or wrong. but I have a question, well several.
#1. Rev 6:9 is not in heaven, the alter is where the sacrifice was made, here on earth, at the cross. those souls here is on earth. but at death the spirit returns to the one who gave it, God.

#2. you said these souls had a spirit body. please explain.

#3. what cried out was in the blood of these martus, as was with Abel. Genesis 4:10 "And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground". now the life of all flesh is in the blood, see Leviticus 17:11 & 14. the term "Life" here in the blood is
H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
2. (abstractly) of vitality.
{used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}
[from H5314]
KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Root(s): H5314
and man is a breathing creature, which have the breath of life. well if the LIFE, or as some say the "soul" is in the life of man, then no blood goes to heaven, only the spirit.
the blood is right here in the ground. as job said, Job 7:20 "I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
Job 7:21 "And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

now Abel blood called out after his "DEATH" from the ground/dust of the earth. the spirit returns to God. so who or what was calling out from the ground? this needs reconciling.

PICJAG.

First, the specifics of the state or location of the spirit of a person after living is still speculation. So, I have been the conservative and not liberal or taken a contrived approach with scripture to form these conclusions concerning the spirit and soul.


So, in #1 these souls yes, can be ‘on’ or even ‘in’ the earth and the other view of being in or reflected in heaven and in God’s keeping does not distort anything. And the point you are making that their spirit return to the realm of the Almighty is what I’m actually emphasizing. They are rejoined from physical death, into a permanent or temporary spirit body and thus they again become souls that are alive.


So, #2, these spirits now possess a ‘new’ body not of flesh, it is suited for the realm they are now located. I call them spirit souls because they have spiritual bodies and not earthly bodies and they ARE invisible bodied souls.


In #3 what or who is calling from the earth is Abel’s spirit, a disembodied spirit as he is not a soul, as he lacks a body or vessel of any type for his spirit to inhabit, at that point in time I suspect. The use of the word blood as the life of the physical body here, is metaphor for the true life from the spirit that animated a vessel to life whether a body of flesh or spirit (light and energy).


Blessings,


APAK

 

[Phoneman777]

I learned something different then what I was taught tonight, so want to look up some scriptures and study about it. The soul and spirit are separate? I always thought they were the same. He said many versions interpret them the same, but they are different. Soul is the mind. But then there is this verse:

and you shall love the Lord your G od with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind , and with all your strength .’
MARK 12:30 NASB

Just was looking up a few verses... Thoughts?


What is the Soul?

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
EZEKIEL 18:4 NASB

For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.
PSALMS 107:9 NASB

And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.” ’ But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’ So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
LUKE 12:19‭-‬21 NASB




What is the Spirit?

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
JOHN 4:24 NASB

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
ROMANS 8:16 NASB

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
GALATIANS 5:25 NASB

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
JOHN 3:6 NASB

Hi, Mayflower, here are reasons for why the Soul and Spirit are NOT the same thing, which turns all popular misconceptions about the State of the Dead and the Reward of the Wicked on their head:

1) "The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of SOUL and SPIRIT, of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart". Hebrews 4:12

The Soul and Spirit can be divided from one another as surely as bone can be divided from the joint.

2)
"Father into Thy hands I commit My Spirit". Luke 23:46
"...His Soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption." Acts 2:31

Jesus' Spirit went up...but His Soul went down into the grave.

3)
"God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Spirit of God) and man became a living Soul." Genesis 2:7 KJV

The Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Breath of Life and the Body. At death, the "dust shall return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit shall return to God Who gave it." Eccl. 12:7

I've got other proofs, but I gotta get to church...preaching today, ya'll please pray for Kev!!!

 

[Enoch111]

This is baloney, the foolishness taught by men and the apostate church, it totally contradicts the plain teachings of the scriptures.

Quite the opposite. Soul Sleep is total nonsense, just like Annihilationism. There are no souls six feet under the earth. Just the dust of those who died.

Acts 7 & 8 are sufficient to establish that ever since the resurrection of Christ, the souls and spirits of those who are in Christ and die go to be with Christ in Heaven (in the New Jerusalem). But those who are not in Christ go directly to Sheol/Hades to await their final judgment.

 

[bbyrd009]

What is the Soul?

Imo as we are directed elsewhere to change our minds i dunno if "soul=mind" is the best perception; i'm currently going by "ego" as that seems to fit a bit better, even if i started with Mind myself. So, "you" is the soul imo, but this definition of "you" ends up being quite subjective i guess.

As evidence i can only say that while we generally don't remember it, there was a certain day that you first recognized your "self" in the mirror; and the day before you saw that blob there, moving when you moved, but simply lacked the self-consciousness that allowed you to see it for what is was the very next day, "you." So in effect you did not see it at all, simply Bc it was outside of your experience, and you had no previous experience to relate "you" to. This is the day you founded the world imo, or at least the day you began forming an ego, i'm fairly sure.

And fwiw there are--quite impactful--ways that you can regress to that day, although getting to the day before is quite a bit tougher i guess, Bc your mind literally changed that day i think is why

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I learned something different then what I was taught tonight, so want to look up some scriptures and study about it. The soul and spirit are separate? I always thought they were the same. He said many versions interpret them the same, but they are different. Soul is the mind. But then there is this verse:

and you shall love the Lord your G od with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind , and with all your strength .’
MARK 12:30 NASB

Just was looking up a few verses... Thoughts?

This question is one that you'll get a LOT of different views on. It's not clearly laid out in scripture, and a lot of time people can be sloppy with their word choice (myself included).

Answering my thoughts--
Your body is that fleshy thing you literally see with your eyes.
Your spirit is the the 'ghost' that inhabits your body. When a person dies, their spirit leaves their body.
Your soul = your spirit + your body.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice imo, ya. Many will want to be forwarding that we "have" a soul of course, in order to keep their agenda intact, but when you ask them to Quote that...ha well, just have your ears on and see i guess

 

[amadeus]

@Mayflower

nice imo, ya. Many will want to be forwarding that we "have" a soul of course, in order to keep their agenda intact, but when you ask them to Quote that...ha well, just have your ears on and see i guess

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I Cor 15:45

 

[101G]

And the point you are making that their spirit return to the realm of the Almighty is what I’m actually emphasizing. They are rejoined from physical death, into a permanent or temporary spirit body and thus they again become souls that are alive.

this we disagree with the later half of your statement. if we have already the spirit body after death, what is the need for a resurrection when the Lord Jesus come? do you have scripture for this, if so please post it. until then cain't buy that try something else.

In #3 what or who is calling from the earth is Abel’s spirit, a disembodied spirit as he is not a soul, as he lacks a body or vessel of any type for his spirit to inhabit, at that point in time I suspect. The use of the word blood as the life of the physical body here, is metaphor for the true life from the spirit that animated a vessel to life whether a body of flesh or spirit (light and energy).

upon death do not the spirit return to the almighty?
also "BLOOD" is not a metaphor for the true life, for the life is in, in, in, the blood. which is the BREATH of God. so try that one again also.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

@Mayflower


"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I Cor 15:45

And He who seeks to save his soul will lose it, huh?