Smoke Screens?

[Episkopos]

The real smokescreen is in believing that our human beliefs...religious opinions and doctrinal stances are what saves us.

I find that a simple bible reading will show that we all will be judged by our works. But this is of course contrary to the belief system of many,...so it is rejected. Imagine that...rejecting the bible in favour of a salvation based ostensibly on the bible?

So if I say ....We will be judged by our works...that is the kind of sound doctrine that people in these latter days will be unable to bear.

Did I mention...we will all be judged by our works?

 

[Helen]

You got it wrong. Satan does not glory in the cross because Jesus' work on the cross defeated Him.

Agree . He would not have ‘crucified the Lord of Glory ‘ if he had one inkling of what he had done.
(On my iPad , can’t find the verse ... )
It was the end of his power over mankind.

The glory of the cross was all Gods....His Plan , since before the creation of the world.
And Jesus said...” I come to do Thy will O Lord”

 

[Episkopos]

Did he ruffle your feathers? Why do you not want to talk with him anymore? Why must your being polite depend on him or what he says? Must he love you first before you love him?

A person with a bad disposition...and who knows he has one...will at least offer up a warning first. So I see that as better than just attacking as some do here.

But I never addressed him...it must be the conviction of a nearby post...the simple proximity of which gets his dander up!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think epi further developed his thought on that. Satan gloried in the death of Jesus. I think we all can see he can't possibly be happy about it any longer though! Right on Helen! if he'd had any idea, huh??

 

[Helen]

I have no idea what your point is and please stop talking to me.

H. Richards wasn’t talking to you. He was addressing someone else.

 

[H. Richard]

I have no idea what your point is and please stop talking to me.

Why?? Are you so religious that you do not want anyone to post their point of view? If so then why are you on this forum?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

i'm back GH. I have my mocha frappe and I can talk with you guys all DAY if I want to! It doesn't get any better than that!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lets just start over again and drop it and practice patience. What could be easier than that?

 

[Episkopos]

Agree . He would not have ‘crucified the Lord of Glory ‘ if he had one inkling of what he had done.
(On my iPad , can’t find the verse ... )
It was the end of his power over mankind.

The glory of the cross was all Gods....His Plan , since before the creation of the world.
And Jesus said...” I come to do Thy will O Lord”

Helen...I don't think you are understanding HR's doctrine. It's a twisting of the word. It is the belief system of the Conquistadors who raped and pillaged with impunity even while trying to get the native inhabitants of the new world "saved"...by putting their trust in the cross. They even carried a cross before them as they cut off their noses, ears, and hands to make them work harder to find gold and silver... .and to warn others what would happen to them if they didn't. All of this with the pretense of a trust in the cross of Christ and what Jesus did for them.

All of the crimes of Christianity stems from this disconnect between faith and works.We will all be judged by our works NOT our beliefs. Do you deny that?

HR claims his works of the flesh are meaningless...not chargeable to him...because of belief.

Is that what you believe, Helen? God only looks for approval of a sacrifice and doesn't care what we do with our hands and feet? God doesn't care what you do in the flesh? Really?

The truth is that the Holy Spirit makes us MORE responsible for our sins...not less as HR says.

Hr said..."Since the sin debt of those who place their faith in Jesus has been paid by God, the child is sinless before God in spirit but not the flesh." (post #34)

This is pure Gnosticism. Something the early brethren wrote entire books against and is the subject of correction in 1 John 1. It divorces a person's sins from the responsibility of these. It makes grace a license to sin without consequence. It's all paid for in advance? Utter foolishness.

Jesus made the law MORE exacting ...like even thinking evil was wrong... like lusting after a woman being the same as adultery. Why would He do that if He didn't care about what we did in these bodies we have been given on loan? So then was this done to show us that God cares LESS about sin now? He is just looking for beliefs?...religious positions? Self-gratifying doctrinal posturings?

Really? I thought you were more in tune with the purpose of God than that.

Has the word become...the soul that sins...it shall live?

Whereby we were once dead in sins are we now made alive in sins? Born again sinners?

Ask HR about this.

 

[Grailhunter]

What verse can you give me that tells me my job is to defend God?

I am running to the WAWA for a mocha frappe but I will be back brother. Its right around the corner.

I certainly agree that Christ believed in peace. And that shows up in the Gospels. On the other hand when pressed he was defending
"something" when he ran the money changers...out of the Temple. John Chapter 2. He also understood that eventually that there would be
a battle between good and evil. Then there is Ephesians chapter 6, which can be interpreted different ways.

Pacifism is a good topic. I respect the concept. And I have been defending pacifists for most of my life. Because if wasn't for people like me...
the wolves would eat them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

GH, I'm sorry you felt we were all jumping on you for conversation all at once. We can be an overwhelming bunch to a new guy.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I certainly agree that Christ believed in peace. And that shows up in the Gospels. On the other hand when pressed he was defending
"something" when he ran the money changers...out of the Temple. John Chapter 2. He also understood that eventually that there would be
a battle between good and evil. Then there is Ephesians chapter 6, which can be interpreted different ways.

Pacifism is a good topic. I respect the concept. And I have been defending pacifists for most of my life. Because if wasn't for people like me...
the wolves would eat them.

I thought we ran you off with our exuberance in discussion. I'm happy to see we didn't.

 

[Grailhunter]

I thought we ran you off with our exuberance in discussion. I'm happy to see we didn't.

Read chapter 2...if you wish.

 

[Grailhunter]

GH, I'm sorry you felt we were all jumping on you for conversation all at once. We can be an overwhelming bunch to a new guy.

God bless and have a good one...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I certainly agree that Christ believed in peace. And that shows up in the Gospels. On the other hand when pressed he was defending
"something" when he ran the money changers...out of the Temple. John Chapter 2. He also understood that eventually that there would be
a battle between good and evil. Then there is Ephesians chapter 6, which can be interpreted different ways.

Pacifism is a good topic. I respect the concept. And I have been defending pacifists for most of my life. Because if wasn't for people like me...
the wolves would eat them.

Oh, I just realized this - you were answering my question where I asked for a verse that tells us we must defend God? And you are saying the passage about the money changers shows that it is our responsibility to defend God?

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh, I just realized this - you were answering my question where I asked for a verse that tells us we must defend God? And you are saying the passage about the money changers shows that it is our responsibility to defend God?

Pretty much...still agreeing that Christ believed in peace. But also knew that it was not always possible.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Pretty much...still agreeing that Christ believed in peace. But also knew that it was not always possible.

And do you have any other verses that you believe tell us we have a responsibility to defend God, Or just that one? I will wait for your answer and then I will share what I have seen about the Spirit of that passage about the money changers. Not to say there isn't always more depth, but I like to share what I have seen with everyone too.

 

[Grailhunter]

And do you have any other verses that you believe tell us we have a responsibility to defend God, Or just that one? I will wait for your answer and then I will share what I have seen about the Spirit of that passage about the money changers. Not to say there isn't always more depth, but I like to share what I have seen with everyone too.

Your not going to see the New Testament doing a call to arms. It opens up other topics. The circumstances they were under, was that most
believed that Christ would return soon....weeks...months, last days, time was short. None of the Apostles are calling for his return in thousands of years. So why would Christ want blood on their hands. When he returned, he would deal with it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your not going to see the New Testament doing a call to arms. It opens up other topics. The circumstances they were under, was that most
believed that Christ would return soon....weeks...months, last days, time was short. None of the Apostles are calling for his return in thousands of years. So why would Christ want blood on their hands. When he returned, he would deal with it.

Oh. I never thought you were meaning you were to literally and physically defend God and have a crusade or anything!

I thought you were more saying it was your responsibility to defend God with doctrines.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I fell asleep. I get so excited at a day off and all I want to do and read, that I get up too early and then need a nap after 5 or 6 hours. Lol.