Please explain this.

[GodsGrace]

You and Lady Crosstalk are two the the more knowledgeable ladies on this form. I pray right now...that you two could come to terms, because I believed it would be a blessing to this forum and serve God all so well.

Some persons are very bitter, and it comes through in their writing.
I, as yourself, am sorry about this.
She's even told me I'm ignorant.
Not a very friendly comment.

 

[GodsGrace]

.



Matthew 5:20 is to be interpreted by Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9.

Do you have a problem with the word of JESUS?
WHY can't I just read and trust the words of Jesus in MATHEW 5:20?

Why do I need to INTERPRET them with Galatians and Philippians?

Is JESUS not trustworthy?

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a false doctrine, taken out of context to support your tradition of man.

When Jesus says, Verily, verily, I say unto you...what is spoken afterward is certainly not false doctrine (nor the tradition of man).

As for taking out of context...how do you explain Matthew taking Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15? For there Matthew equates God's son as being Jesus; whereas in the original context, scripture is referring to Israel when it speaks of God's son.

Also, a very good application (and the sounder interpretation) can be gotten from 2 Corinthians 9:6 if you compare it to Luke 8:11; whereas looking at it in its immediate context it would seem to support the teachings of the word of faith movement.

And therefore, I would say that my contention that every scripture stands on its own as a bastion of truth is supported biblically; to the extent that Matthew was able to take Hosea's scripture and apply it differently than the original context would require.

 

[Grailhunter]

Some persons are very bitter, and it comes through in their writing.
I, as yourself, am sorry about this.
She's even told me I'm ignorant.
Not a very friendly comment.

I am not going to stand in a glass house and throw rocks at my neighbor who has the same. you have a better heart and more patience than I. I tip my hat in your direction.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you have a problem with the word of JESUS?
WHY can't I just read and trust the words of Jesus in MATHEW 5:20?

Why do I need to INTERPRET them with Galatians and Philippians?

Is JESUS not trustworthy?

The Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

Are you saying that what is written by Paul is not spiritual?

I would say that the writings of Paul were inspired by the Holy Spirit...even the Spirit of Jesus. Therefore I am simply comparing Jesus' words with Jesus' words.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Are you saying that is what is written by Paul is not spiritual?

I would say that the writings of Paul were inspired by the Holy Spirit...even the Spirit of Jesus.

I say Jesus is God and we should listen to Him.
Mathew 17:5
5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

I've NEVER given the impression that I do not accept Paul as inspired.
No need for tricky questions.

BUT when JESUS makes a statement, it's incorrect to look for confirmation of it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not going to stand in a glass house and throw rocks at my neighbor who has the same. you have a better heart and more patience than I. I tip my hat in your direction.

No need to tip your hat GH...
I tip mine to you...

 

[justbyfaith]

I say Jesus is God and we should listen to Him.
Mathew 17:5
5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

I've NEVER given the impression that I do not accept Paul as inspired.
No need for tricky questions.

BUT when JESUS makes a statement, it's incorrect to look for confirmation of it.

You don't want the blessing of the added understanding that you would get from comparing Matthew 5:20 to Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9...I get that.

Have it your way...it is your loss, not mine.

But I would ask you to consider that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3); and that that Lord is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). So there is a sense in which Jesus is the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus)...and therefore when we read Paul's writings, we are reading the words of Jesus...because they are inspired to be written by His Spirit.

Also, I never looked for confirmation of Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:20...but as I continued to read my Bible, I have found that Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9 apply directly to that verse as being in its topical context.

Take it or leave it...and I expect that you will leave it...for why would you now change your mind about being open to what the Holy Spirit might want to teach you?

 

[Grailhunter]

You don't want the blessing of the added understanding that you would get from comparing Matthew 5:20 to Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9...I get that.

Have it your way...it is your loss, not mine.

But I would ask you to consider that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3); and that that Lord is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). So there is a sense in which Jesus is the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus)...and therefore when we read Paul's writings, we are reading the words of Jesus...because they are inspired to be written by His Spirit.

Also, I never looked for confirmation of Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:20...but as I continued to read my Bible, I have found that Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9 apply directly to that verse as being in its topical context.

Take it or leave it...and I expect that you will leave it...for why would you now change your mind about being open to what the Holy Spirit might want to teach you?

Would you mind explaining her choices in all this...her free-will?

 

[Mal'ak]

When Jesus says, Verily, verily, I say unto you...what is spoken afterward is certainly not false doctrine (nor the tradition of man).

Yes it is, if you ignore what Jesus continues to say. There are many traditions of man that are based off one verse taken out of context. I could give 100 examples of one verse taken out of context from the Bible, that is used to attack Christians as being "evil" by non-believers, or to make traditions of man. You used one verse and knowingly ignored the rest of the chapter, because it did not fit your beliefs...which is common with traditions of man, take what you want from God's Word and dismiss everything else. You know who else does this? ...the devil, which uses 90% truth and 10% lie to deceive us. Not good company to keep.

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

As for taking out of context...how do you explain Matthew taking Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15? For there Matthew equates God's son as being Jesus; whereas in the original context, scripture is referring to Israel when it speaks of God's son.

So you are misquoting the Bible and taking things out of context, and blaming Jesus for it? I do not know what is worse, that you are accusing Jesus of baring false witness against God by misquoting scripture, or that you knowingly and admit to taking things out of context. But to answer your question, many times in the Bible flesh examples are used to explain spiritual truths. If Jesus uses Hosea to teach a spiritual lesson, or Hosea uses a flesh event to prophecy a spiritual event, it is not taken out of context.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

 

[justbyfaith]

Would you mind explaining her choices in all this...her free-will?

I'm not sure I understand your question...I told her to do what she wants to do.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not sure I understand your question...I told her to do what she wants to do.

kool

 

[GodsGrace]

You don't want the blessing of the added understanding that you would get from comparing Matthew 5:20 to Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9...I get that.

Have it your way...it is your loss, not mine.

But I would ask you to consider that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3); and that that Lord is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). So there is a sense in which Jesus is the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus)...and therefore when we read Paul's writings, we are reading the words of Jesus...because they are inspired to be written by His Spirit.

Also, I never looked for confirmation of Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:20...but as I continued to read my Bible, I have found that Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9 apply directly to that verse as being in its topical context.

Take it or leave it...and I expect that you will leave it...for why would you now change your mind about being open to what the Holy Spirit might want to teach you?

Why was that last sentence necessary?
Have I been mean to you?

How do you know what I'm open to or why or why not?
When a person studies the bible they study ALL of the bible.
Of course scripture has to agree.
What I'm saying is that when JESUS MAKES A STATEMENT,
it's always a plain and simple statement and easy to understand.
Quite frankly, i find PAUL more difficult to understand.
Jesus wanted to make sure HIS statement were understood.
He spoke to simple persons and wanted His message to get across.

And Jesus IS NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is Jesus.
Father is Father.
and all three are in ONE PERSON.
See. Simple.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Once again, faith is not works of the law. Once again, God chose by grace, through faith.

That is why it is troublesome when anyone says that they are "required" to do anything to maintain salvation. That takes salvation out of the hands of God and puts it into the hands of men. Under that false teaching, can anyone know that he/she has done enough "good deeds" to avoid the removal of his/her salvation? I have yet to get an answer to that question from those who insist that we are "required" to work to maintain our salvation.

In contrast, the Apostle Paul says in Galatians 1:15--->"But even before I was born, God chose me and called me by His marvelous grace. Then it pleased Him to reveal His Son to me so that I would proclaim the Good News about Jesus to the Gentiles." This is reinforced by Ephesians 2:10--->"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Paul understood the human tendency to be rule-bound and questions the Galatians, "After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? (Galatians 3:3b) We can rest in the understanding that we have turned our lives over to Jesus for His direction, through the Holy Spirit. He will lead us to the tasks which He wants us to perform. Jesus said that His yoke was easy and His burden, light.

I am reminded of a friend who spoke of being "healed of ask-itis" (where she felt compelled to do everything that was "asked" of her) when she realized that she was neglecting her family for church work. She knew that Jesus would not require her to neglect her family, as His word says that those who do not provide for their families are worse than infidels. Now, when asked to perform some duty, she simply says, "I'll consult the Lord on it and let you know whether I can or not." As I survey churches, I honestly feel that those who hold the false belief that they are "required" to maintain their salvation with works, often become resentful, irritable, exhausted Christians--and that often discourages those outside the churches from becoming involved in them. Didn't Jesus commend Mary and give a mild reproof to Martha for her resentment of Mary, who just wanted to sit at Jesus' feet? The works that last, are those which are done with the pure joy of serving the Lord and attracts others to Him. We are not slaves of men but servants of the only righteous King.

Even OT saints did not see obedience to the Law of Moses as earning them eternal salvation in paradise. They saw it as necessary to keep them safe from drought, famine, insect invasions, enemies, etc.--here on earth. They believed that Yahweh gave them rituals, festivals and regulations, beyond the Law of Moses, to keep them safe from violating the Law. Yahweh had warned them that, if they broke His commands, they too would get "vomited out" of the Land, as had the heathen who previously inhabited the Land. The Hebrews took it for granted that they would be "gathered unto their fathers" or the "bosom of Abraham" after death. They looked forward to the day that Yahweh would send them Messiah to rule as King, to utterly vanquish their enemies, bring peace and prosperity and to take away their sin--here on earth.

 

[justbyfaith]

If Jesus uses Hosea to teach a spiritual lesson, or Hosea uses a flesh event to prophecy a spiritual event, it is not taken out of context.

In context, in Hosea 11:1, God's son is referred to as Israel. But the Holy Spirit through Matthew relates God's son as being Jesus as he quotes that scripture in Matthew 2:15.

So how is it not taken out of its original context?

Who is God's son? Israel or Jesus?

According to Hosea 11:1, it is Israel.

According to Matthew 2:15, as Matthew quotes Hosea 11:1, the answer is Jesus.

And truly, it is New Testament doctrine that Jesus is the Son of God.

It doesn't change the fact that originally, the scripture quoted referred the son of God as being Israel and not Jesus.

So, either Matthew took Hosea out of context or else the scripture contradicts itself.

Which one is it?

 

[justbyfaith]

Why was that last sentence necessary?
Have I been mean to you?

How do you know what I'm open to or why or why not?
When a person studies the bible they study ALL of the bible.
Of course scripture has to agree.
What I'm saying is that when JESUS MAKES A STATEMENT,
it's always a plain and simple statement and easy to understand.
Quite frankly, i find PAUL more difficult to understand.
Jesus wanted to make sure HIS statement were understood.
He spoke to simple persons and wanted His message to get across.

And Jesus IS NOT the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is Jesus.
Father is Father.
and all three are in ONE PERSON.
See. Simple.

three Gods.

Oh wait, never mind...the arrows between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit say "distinct from" rather than "NOT"...and I actually agree with that.

But I would also say that there is a sense in which the Father is the Son is the Holy Ghost...while they are also distinct from each other. Because they are distinct...not separate.

 

[bbyrd009]

I met God too and then believed I was further along than I really was. Its a very common mistake.

i gave you a like in principle, but i doubt you have met God wadr ok

 

[justbyfaith]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus per Luke 23:46.

See also Romans 8:9.

 

[bbyrd009]

If your old man has completely died, no pride, no fleshly ambition, then you are walking in Him continuously and are perfect.

amen, and you sure wont be testifying of yourself i guess either huh. Unless it's something like why do you call me good?

 

[GodsGrace]

three Gods.