Tribulation saints

[Earburner]

Correction: Zech. 4:1-14. Specifically verse 14.

 

[Taken]

I have asked you to read Revelation 12:6-17. It plainly and unequivocally states that those who keep God's Commandments and maintain their witness to Jesus, are there; in the holy Land when the AC [the 'dragon'] conquers them.
Some of the Christians; those who refuse the treaty with the leader of the One World Govt, Daniel 11:32, will be kept safe on earth for that 1260 days until Jesus Returns. His angels will gather them and transport to where Jesus is; then. Matthew 24:30-31

Where in ANY VERSE in Rev 12...
IS "holy Land" mentioned?
IS "Christian" mentioned?


Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is time for you to realize that the 'rapture to heaven of the Church' theory, is a crock and will never happen.

JEWS have NEVER called "THEMSELVES" Christians.

The TERM "Christian" was what "UNBELIEVERS" Called the Disciples and Followers of JESUS.

Rev 12 is ABOUT recapping history of Fallen angels, Gods reaction, Jesus being revealed...
AND
"individuals" WHO ARE of the TRIBES of ISRAEL....
WHO come into Belief (IN CHRIST) DURING the Tribulation, BUT ARE NOT "KILLED"...
THEY REMAIN MORTAL...
THEY are they WHO ARE THE "REMNANT" established to REPLENISH THE EARTH, during the Thousand Years Reign.

It is time for you to realize that the 'rapture to heaven of the Church' theory, is a crock and will never happen.

It's time for you to realize that Scripture is NOT ALL ABOUT men TOUTING a man-made TITLE, men call "CHRISTIANS"!

You read the WORDS, us, our, them, we, I, blah, blah, and PRESUME it APPLIES to all Humans, without consideration there are millions of Humans with DIFFERENT BELIEFS, and a FEW WHO HAVE "established a COMMITTED BELIEF...TO God "ONLY"...and a FEW WHO HAVE "established a COMMITTED BELIEF...TO God and Christ Jesus...and many WHO DABBLE; Believing, then not; and many WhO FLAT out REJECT GOD, AND REJECT CHRIST JESUS.

God has ESTABLISHED A WAY, AN ORDER, AN OFFERING; for EVERY SINGLE Human to BECOME;
Forgiven for Disbelief, Bodily Dead, Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened and Body Raised UP IN Immortal Glory....

However NOT EVERY SINGLE Human....WILL ACCEPT Gods OFFER....and EVEN the Human that DO Accept His OFFER...OBVIOUSLY Accept His OFFER at VARIOUS "TIMES"...(since human are born and physically die every single day since the beginning of mankind).

THIS WORLD as "we know it", has already been established BY GOD, SHALL become Destroyed and Renewed...
And the Physically Living Humans SHALL BE EFFECTED...WHEN the Days Arrive that GOD determines He shall DESTROY this World.

BEFORE this World IS DESTROYED...God has Established the LAST chances FOR humans to MAKE THEIR CHOICES, TO:
Commit to BELIEF "IN GOD"...AND "CHRIST JESUS"... or NOT.

Perhaps you have NOT NOTICED, there ARE MILLIONS of JEWS who BELIEVE IN GOD, and NOT Christ Jesus the Messiah.

THEY are SENT witnesses to Testify of Jesus.
THEY are SENT tribesmen to Testify of Jesus.
THEY are BEING CONVERTED, DURING the GT.

If some Gentiles, join in ... Great.

However there are MILLIONS of Gentiles who HAVE ALREADY Established A Commitment of Belief IN God, and IN Christ Jesus the Messiah. "IT IS THEY" specific WHO ARE NOT Subject to Gods "WRATH/ANGER" for "STILL" not BeLIEVING!

Do you NOT comprehend...Gods ANGER/WRATH is PARTICULARLY APPOINTED to human men who HAVE Rejected God? Rejected Christ Jesus?

Don't know ABOUT YOU...BUT I know Exactly my Standing WITH and IN, God and Christ Jesus...AND am Appointed to be CALLED UP to thee Lord, WITH Him, where HE IS, When HE...The Lamb of God begins HIS WRATH/ANGER upon the Humans ON EARTH, who have REJECTED HIM.
I AM "NOT" subject to His Great Anger, Great Wrath, or Great Tribulation He will Project During the Beginning of the GT.

IT is BEYOND me ....

WHY you testify YOU WILL BE ON EARTH, During the GT, with ALL THOSE WHO REJECT Christ Jesus...

WHILE Christ Jesus IS IN THE CLOUDS WITH HIS Church...

I have not called your belief False, A Theory, A Lie.... I simply DO NOT BELIEVE what YOU claim FOR YOURSELF....is the SAME that APPLIES TO ME.

YOU, and your cohorts, have one thing in common....and that is YOUR MAIN MANTRA is to CALL those (Liars, and Believers IN Theories and Myths and False teaching)...
who DO NOT AGREE with YOUR belief the Converted "ARE" Appointed to Suffer Gods "ANGER/ WRATH".

Your DISBELIEF; Your Lack of UNDERSTANDING, IS NOT THE BIBLICAL Standard or Principle for Determining AN OTHERS STANDING WITH thee Lord God.

So all your ACCUSATIONS...are but old and irrelevant gibberish, and do NOTHING whatsoever to establish YOUR OWN VIEW or SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT of WHY God IS ANGRY at human men WHO BELIEVE IN GOD and Jesus the Christ Messiah....and God SUBJECTS THEM TO HIS WRATH during the GT.

Perhaps you could focus more on THAT ^, rather than making derragatory remarks about a man's Belief in being Called UP to their Lord, and NOT subject to Gods Anger.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

If it's such "an excellent point", then are you able and willing to study the depth of how
"the two witnesses" are indeed what I said:
"It's quite possible that you have not thought about this:
The Two Witnesses already came, being John the Baptist and Jesus.

Together

, their ministry was for 3.5 years.
Approximately 6 mos. for John the Baptist, and approx. 3 years for Jesus, equals 3.5 years."
.

Not many professing Christians dare to even entertain it, because it is so diametrically opposed to all of what they have been taught by the "scholarly learned". Ref. Zech. 4:1-14. Specifically verse 4.

I do not believe John the Baptist or Jesus are the TWO Witnesses, Witnessing OF Jesus the Christ Messiah, DURING the Great Tribulation.

TWO, Prophet Witnesses who Witnessed Jesus' Transfiguration; were Enoch and Elijah.

While the TWO Witnesses DURING the Great Tribulation, are NOT identified BY NAME, what IS established is EVERY man is APPOINTED TO DIE "ONCE".

TWO Prophets WHO HAVE NOT BEEN established as having DIED "ONCE", is:
Enoch and Elijah.

The TWO Witnesses, Preaching In Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years are CLEARLY KILLED, fulfilling the established requirement for a man to DIE "ONCE".

I believe the most likely candidates for the TWO Witnesses IN Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years, During the Tribulation and then being Killed, are Enoch and Elijah.

Did you know, that John the Baptist and Jesus are the ONLY two who were physically born with the Holy Spirit?
See Luke 1:15; 31-37

Yes, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb, empowering John to Do Gods Will, According to Gods Will of Preaching the Coming of the Lord Jesus.

Yes, Jesus "HAD" the Holy Spirit...
Yes, CHRIST "IS" the Holy Spirit...
Yes, the Holy Spirit, IS...POWER (and called others things as well, ie Light, Flaming Fire, Wisdom, Word of God, etc.

Mic 3
[8] But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD...

Acts 8
[10] To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

1 Cor 1
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

You claim there is a POST-TRIBULATION gathering unto God....correct?

WHO disagreed with you?


And what is your point? You disagree and You are FOR Any and All of "men's" doctrines?

What is your point? You disagree and You follow a Post-trib theory?


LOL...So what is your point?
YOU CLAIM, I LOVE what I am AGAINST?

That is Big of you to MAKE CLAIMS FOR ME...
However I am better suited to make MY OWN CLAIMS for myself.


I have quoted and agreed with many of God's Word as written in conversation with you, so your claim is False.


Glory to God,
Taken

You have definitely gone over the edge.

 

[Taken]

You have definitely gone over the edge.

LOL !!

You are the one making up things and saying it is what other people believe....

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

Where in ANY VERSE in Rev 12...
IS "holy Land" mentioned?
IS "Christian" mentioned?

We know that the holy people of God, now every faithful Christian believer; are living in all of the holy Land when the AC conquers them. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:7. Confirmed by many other prophesies; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

Rev 12:17 the remnant may be those few Jews wo have now accepted Jesus, but it refers to all the faithful Christians and as a group of them have been taken to a place of safety for the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, those who remain are that remnant. Daniel 11:32 describes this separation of the Christians, when the AC takes over the holy Land.

 

[Earburner]

You would need to ask that question to whoever said that.



It's Great Signifiance.



No.



So? I haven't seen anyone saying anything about a 7.5 year Tribulation, except you.

Why make silly comments then disagree with yourself?



LOL...where do you come up with such silly questions?

Glory to God,
Taken

Not silly questions! You push The Great Tribulation agenda. You don't follow their line of thinking about a "7 year Tribulation Period", fabricated from the 70 weeks in Daniel?

 

[Taken]

We know that the holy people of God, now every faithful Christian believer; are living in all of the holy Land when the AC conquers them. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:7. Confirmed by many other prophesies; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

The question was where is Holy land or christian mentioned in Rev 12.

Rev 12:17 the remnant may be those few Jews wo have now accepted Jesus,
but it refers to all the faithful Christians and as a group of them have been taken to a place of safety for the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, those who remain are that remnant. Daniel 11:32 describes this separation of the Christians, when the AC takes over the holy Land.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Not silly questions! You push The Great Tribulation agenda.

Actually Scripture reveals the Knowledge of the GREAT TRIBULATION.

I believe it and speak of it when the Great Tribulation is congruent to the Topic.

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You don't follow their line of thinking about a "7 year Tribulation Period",

You are asking me IF I do NOT "follow" some unidentified people? LOL

fabricated from the 70 weeks in Daniel?

You are asking me IF I do NOT "follow" the Line of thinking of some Unidentifed people that you say "THEIR" thinking is Fabricated?
LOL

Again silly and TWISTED questions.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Tribulation saints <--- OP

Men who BECOME saints DURING the Great Tribulation.
They BECOME soul saved, spirit quickened, and Bodily Killed, for having put their FAITH in God and the Word of God (Christ Jesus), and having REJECTED the anti-Christ.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

The question was where is Holy land or christian mentioned in Rev 12.
Glory to God,
Taken

Other scriptures prove where the Christians are at that time. Isaiah 35:1-10 , + Obviously they are no longer scattered among the nations, but gathered into one place, that can only be the holy Land. Certainly it isn't in heaven!

Your thinking in this issue is hopelessly clouded by the 'rapture' belief. Get that fable out of your mind, then see the truth of what God has for His faithful people.

 

[Taken]

Other scriptures prove where the Christians are at that time.

Your point several posts back spoke of The Holy Land And Christians...Then You gave a Reference Chapter as your verification, which mentioned neither The Holy Land or Christians!

I asked you specifically about your supposed verifying scripture And you failed to address my question and came back with a list of Scriptures that also did not verify your point.

If you are going to make a point then add a scripture to verify your point ... try listing a scripture that actually verifies what you say!

Isaiah 35:1-10 , + Obviously they are no longer scattered among the nations, but gathered into one place, that can only be the holy Land.

Obviously "THEY", (CHRISTIANS)...Are "no longer scattered among the nations" ?

Disagree with your point.


"THEY" whom you are calling "CHRISTIANS" were always SCATTERED, and the citizens of nations around the world.

It is ISRAEL, who were once Gathered TOGETHER, and then SCATTERED among the nations.

Certainly it isn't in heaven!

This comment makes NO SENSE. "WHO" has said Christians are "gathered" together in Heaven? Or that Heaven IS a Nation?

Your thinking in this issue is hopelessly clouded by the 'rapture' belief. Get that fable out of your mind, then see the truth of what God has for His faithful people.

Your thinking has NOTHING to do with the FACTS!

Jesus GATHERS HIS "CHURCH"...
....TO the CLOUDS.
....The Converted "IN CHRIST".
....Those WHO Heard of JESUS, and BELIEVED, IN JESUS, the Son of God.
....Those WHO Heard of God, the Father of Jesus, and BELIEVED IN GOD.
....Those WHO BECAME:
.....BEFORE the Great Tribulation;
Forgiven, Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened; AND
BODILY DEAD, crucified "WITH" Jesus.
BEFORE the Great Tribulation; JESUS gathers THOSE PEOPLE, Glorified Body, Saved Soul, Quickened Spirit...
TO HIM, IN THE CLOUDS.


God GATHERS HIS "PEOPLE"...
...TO MT ZION.
...Those WHO Believe "IN GOD".
...TO Hear Testimony OF JESUS, the Christ.
...BY Tribesmen SENT BY God, of 12,000 OF EACH of the Twelve Tribes of "ISRAEL", Gods PEOPLE.
....Those wHO BECOME;
....DURING the Great Tribulation
Forgiven, Souls Saved, Spirit Quickened; AND
BODILY DEAD, Killed "BY" the Anti-Christ.

AFTER the Great Tribulation;
God Gathers the souls and spirit of those who "overcame" during the Great Tribulation

And AFTER the 1,000 Year reign;
God gathers the DEAD bodys, of those saved and quickened during the Great Tribulation, AND ALL IN Christ, who is already MADE Whole, body, soul, & spirit;
In ANY Nation, Dead in the Ground, In the Clouds...

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bringwith him.

AFTER the 1,000 yr resign of Christ Jesus IN HIS Earthly Kingdom....

God GATHERS and BRINGS "ALL" who have overcome TO: HIS GREAT CITY;
The NEW Jerusalem.

Rev 21:
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[7] "He that overcometh" shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
[24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

God IS THE CREATOR...
Jesus IS THE MAKER...

Mankind is CREATED....
All CHANGES of a CREATED MAN;
ARE "MADE" BY the "MAKER".

God DIVIDED men, WHO were "WITH" God, From men WHO were "AGAINST" (without) Him.

Jesus came to Earth, Continuing the "DIVIDE", of men who were/ARE "WITH" Jesus "AND" God, From men WHO were/are "AGAINST" (without) Him. (Jesus and God).

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

God Divided, Jesus Divides...
And Scripture Informs us...
In "order" for a man to BECOME "MADE" "WHOLE"....BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT...
That is ACCOMPLISHED "THROUGH" the "MAKER", Jesus Christ.

SUMMARY:
THERE ARE SEVERAL GATHERINGS:
JESUS gathers TO the Clouds, Those IN Christ, Before the Great Tribulation.
MEN "MADE WHOLE"...BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT
(Crucified witH Christ).

God gathers Those OUT OF THE Great Tribulation...
MEN "MADE ... Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened".
"NOT YET WHOLE", because their BODIES are Killed, by the Anti-Christ, and lay DEAD on the Earth.
Their Saved Souls and Quickened Spirits GO TO GOD IN HEAVEN.

After the Great Tribulation...Christ Jesus' "Earthly Kingdom" is Revealed. Christ Jesus and His Church, From His Faithful Disciples to Gentiles and ANY Jew/Israel Tribesman who Became Converted, rule and reign WITH Christ Jesus, IN HIS KINGDOM....for 1,000 years WHILE a "remnant' of Mortals out of the Great Tribulation, occupy the Earth.

After the 1,000 years Reign....
God Gathers the BODIES, from every corner of the World who Were Soul Saved, and Spirt Quickened, and Raises "THEIR BODIES UP IN GLORY"... and THEY along with ALL Converted in Christ, ALREADY MADE WHOLE, body, soul & spirit.....ARE THEN ALL TO-GETHER...
ON a NEW EARTH, and A NEW Jerusalem, and FOREVER To-Gether ... are WHOLE, body, soul, spirit....IN HARMONY, with ONE GOD, they can "SEE".
And "EVIL" is eraticated "FOREVER" off the face of the Earth.

There shall be NO, Hebrews, Israel, Jews, Gentiles, Christians....ALL are Gods PEOPLE.

You preach, AGAINST, Jesus' gathering of HIS PEOPLE, converted IN Christ, being Gathered TOGETHER IN the Clouds WITH JESUS.

I DISAGREE WITH YOU.
Scripture Disagrees with YOU.

Those IN CHRIST, "HAVE" overcome, WHOLLY...BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT.

Some Jews/Israel, ARE accepting JESUS...
NOW...THEY DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS....(same as the Disciples of Jesus, DID NOT CALL THEMSELVES Christians)!
Those NOT YET, "IN CHRIST", God provides "THEM" with a "WAY", to BECOME "MADE" WHOLE, DURING the Great Tribulation.

You spend ALL YOUR EFFORT, "AS IF" you think "SCRIPTURE" is ALL ABOUT "Christians"....

Gods Concern IS PLAIN...
Jesus said;

John 14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

PAY ATTENTION...TO THE FACTS;
JESUS NEVER mentioned "CHRISTIANS" !

Jesus' message IS TO ALL PEOPLE...
Believe IN GOD, Believe IN JESUS the CHRIST.

Hebrew, Jew, Israel, Gentile, Christian...
ie WHAT men call themselves IS IRRELEVANT.

What IS RELEVANT...IS:
"IF" a man Becomes MADE WHOLE:
"BODY, SOUL, and SPIRIT".
AND "WHEN"!

THE "WHEN" determines, "WHEN" the WHOLE of the man WILL BE Accomplished...and his being GATHERED TOGETHER, and WHERE!

Glory to God,
Taken