The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

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Taken

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I thought you might want to educate yourself about your own Christian history and read what the men who walked and talked with the Apostles wrote/believed/practiced....I was wrong! :(

You are only interested in what you think....of that I am not wrong.

Mary

Wrong on both accounts.

You can read about men whom you claim personally followed the Apostles. I already told you they were not my interest.

I have already on MORE than one occasion said Jesus is MY Teacher, FOLLOW Him if one desires to know Him and become Like Him.

So you see, yet on another point, you are Wrong...it is not About what "I" think, Or "what you think", Or "what men you FOLLOW think"...but rather "What Lord Jesus the Christ thinks".

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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I am trying to figure out what you mean by "YOUR" apostolic and church fathers?

Perhaps you can explain?

Curious mary

PS...I know you really don't like to answer questions AND most of your responses are in a mocking, don't put words in MY mouth tone but I SERIOUSLY would like a SERIOUS answer

Mary, its not about me liking or not liking to answer questions.

It is ABOUT one answering what I have asked...before I consider answering what THEY ask, after they did not answer my question.

And BTW, when you speak FOR an other, what they DID NOT claim, You ARE attempting to put words in their Mouth!

You, BOL, kermos...ALL regularly make Claims FOR others that are False....and it is well known on this forum.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

GodsGrace

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Really? LOL, I never said that...why are you speaking for me?

Why ask me a question ABOUT some dead men that I already told YOU, I don't read their works?

Did YOUR Apostoic Fathers teach something secret ONLY given to them?

Mary...seriously? You are asking me IF I DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING I have NOT READ? LOL

Yes you are Curious, as to WHY you falsely dictate saying I believe, what I do not believe....AND....then ask me what I believe about WORKS of men I have not read, nor NEED to Read.

Weird.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Taken,

I understand what you're saying about the ECFs and I'm not here to convince you to read them or pay attention to what they say or agree with it.

But I have come to have a good reason to read what they believed, which is also what they taught.

1. They know much more than today's preachers can know because they were taught directly by either an APOSTLE or someone that was taught by an Apostle and they do sometimes state this.

When a preacher says something that sounds wrong to me, I have to run to my bible and check it out.


2. There IS a problem withing the churches, I should say different denominations.
That is that they do not ALL TEACH THE SAME doctrine/teaching.

For instance we have OSAS OSNAS...which I prefer to call eternal security, but the idea is the same.

For instance is the wafer the body of Jesus or not?
Or is it just a symbol?

Now, if we want to be intellectually honest, we have to admit that none of us can be sure of either of the above. But the ECFs KNEW which concept was correct....Jesus taught the Apostles,,,gave them the Great Commission,,and they, in turn, also taught.

Have you ever considered this?
 

GodsGrace

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Yes, questions about long term doctrinal directions and strategies are worth asking.
Right!
Especially when you know VERY LITTLE about it!
smile.gif
 
B

brakelite

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What is the trajectory?
What is the end?
What is the agenda?
Trajectory....
KJV Revelation 12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The agenda....
KJV Revelation 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The end...
KJV Daniel 11
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
KJV Daniel 12
The Words Are Sealed
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
 
B

brakelite

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What do you mean "what if"??? It's already happened. o_O

Mary
Indeed it has. So how are we to know which one of the many groups is now the pillar and the foundation of truth? Sure, we know God had protected His word... The truth is out there... But where, and how are we to know? Because one church says she is that church? Because she claims to have the longest history going back to the apostles? We Kn ow the truth goes back to them, but how soon did the church succumb to deception...John said the spirit of Antichrist was already in the church in his day... The gnostics were there... But which branch of the church held closest to the pure gospel? Rome? Antioch? Perea? Alexandria?
 

GodsGrace

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The agenda is power
The end is control
The trajectory is the path taken for power and control
I agree that all the above existed in the past.

I don't believe it can exist anymore.
Right now the CC is in a bad condition.
Only time will tell if you're right.
It sure doesn't seem like it to me.
 

GodsGrace

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Trajectory....
KJV Revelation 12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The agenda....
KJV Revelation 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The end...
KJV Daniel 11
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
KJV Daniel 12
The Words Are Sealed
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
I like you Brakelite. But you just posted from the books I never hardly read...
Hardly ever read.
I really don't get what you're saying.
But I'm sure it's not good.
 

GodsGrace

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Indeed it has. So how are we to know which one of the many groups is now the pillar and the foundation of truth? Sure, we know God had protected His word... The truth is out there... But where, and how are we to know? Because one church says she is that church? Because she claims to have the longest history going back to the apostles? We Kn ow the truth goes back to them, but how soon did the church succumb to deception...John said the spirit of Antichrist was already in the church in his day... The gnostics were there... But which branch of the church held closest to the pure gospel? Rome? Antioch? Perea? Alexandria?
Which "branch"???

I'll let @Marymog answer,,,but there were no branches.
In early Christianity there was only one church...
the Universal Church which is the Catholic Church.
History is history.

Every city/region you mentioned above was teaching the same and it was being safeguarded by them.
 
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Taken

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Hi Taken,

I understand what you're saying about the ECFs and I'm not here to convince you to read them.

What is ECF ?

[QUOTE But I have come to have a good reason to read what they believed, which is also what they taught.

1. They know much more than today's preachers can know because they were taught directly by either an APOSTLE or someone that was taught by an Apostle and they do sometimes state this.

Have you ever considered this?[/QUOTE]

I feel quite content in my ability to read, and my gift of having direct Contact with my Lord God, 24-7.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

GodsGrace

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What is ECF ?

[QUOTE But I have come to have a good reason to read what they believed, which is also what they taught.

1. They know much more than today's preachers can know because they were taught directly by either an APOSTLE or someone that was taught by an Apostle and they do sometimes state this.

Have you ever considered this?

I feel quite content in my ability to read, and my gift of having direct Contact with my Lord God, 24-7.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]
ECF is the Early Church Fathers.

Those that learned from the Apostles.
The church did not stop with Jesus and the Apostles...it continued.

Jesus gave the Apostles the job of going to all nations and baptizing and teaching what He had taught them.

Jesus also said the Spirit will lead us into all truth.
I'm not sure what that means....
Since we all believe a different truth.

Jesus also said that the Spirit would remind us of what Jesus taught.
What did Jesus teach become the questions.

I do believe the ECFs knew what Jesus taught.
Just as the Apostles knew.
 
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Taken

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2. There IS a problem withing the churches, I should say different denominations.
That is that they do not ALL TEACH THE SAME doctrine/teaching.

That seems to be the case.

For instance we have OSAS OSNAS...which I prefer to call eternal security, but the idea is the same.

Don't know what OSNAS is.

For instance is the wafer the body of Jesus or not?
Or is it just a symbol?

Jesus' teaching was about a mans WILLINGNESS to DO what Jesus was going to DO...and full well knowing the man would BE HATED by the World.

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Luke 6
[22] Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

A man eating and drinking thereafter, was given as a tribute to REMEMBERING JESUS.

Luke.22
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Cor.11
[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, inremembrance of me.

Now, if we want to be intellectually honest, we have to admit that none of us can be sure of either of the above. But the ECFs KNEW which concept was correct....Jesus taught the Apostles,,,gave them the Great Commission,,and they, in turn, also taught.

Have you ever considered this?

I don't believe thee Lords gift of Saving a mans soul, or Quickening a mans spirit has anything to do with intellectual honesty....

I am of the belief thee Lord God is hearing the confessions of mens thoughts from their hearts, ( not their minds; ) saving their souls, quickening their spirits, and giving them, (who seek it) his understanding of his word.

And per the multiple denominations....and disagreements even within denominations...
Seems to me to hang on ... what men decided is the Understanding of Gods Word...Based ON THEIR own MINDS conclusions...

Glory to God,
Taken
 

GodsGrace

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That seems to be the case.



Don't know what OSNAS is.



Jesus' teaching was about a mans WILLINGNESS to DO what Jesus was going to DO...and full well knowing the man would BE HATED by the World.

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Luke 6
[22] Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

A man eating and drinking thereafter, was given as a tribute to REMEMBERING JESUS.

Luke.22
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Cor.11
[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, inremembrance of me.



I don't believe thee Lords gift of Saving a mans soul, or Quickening a mans spirit has anything to do with intellectual honesty....

I am of the belief thee Lord God is hearing the confessions of mens thoughts from their hearts, ( not their minds; ) saving their souls, quickening their spirits, and giving them, (who seek it) his understanding of his word.

And per the multiple denominations....and disagreements even within denominations...
Seems to me to hang on ... what men decided is the Understanding of Gods Word...Based ON THEIR own MINDS conclusions...

Glory to God,
Taken
Re your last paragraph....
What causes these "mind conclusions" as you said?

Take eternal security...OSAS OS NOT AS OSNAS
I like to call it eternal security: either conditional or non-conditional.

To me scripture supports CONDITIONAL eternal security...
But some verses do seem to tend toward UNCONDITIONAL security.

So how can we be sure which it is?
 

Taken

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ECF is the Early Church Fathers.

WHO designated them ECF? The Lord or men?

My understanding is God is thee Heavenly Father and Abraham is the father of many Nations.

Those that learned from the Apostles.
The church did not stop with Jesus and the Apostles...it continued.

I would say men WHO submit to thee Lord, have Direct access to the Lords teaching and his understanding of his teaching.

Jesus gave the Apostles the job of going to all nations and baptizing and teaching what He had taught them.

Sure. 2,000+ years ago. Taking a wild guess, 2,000+ years ago, scripture being written, mass produced, distributed, the ability of the masses being able to Read....was SCANT.

That is not the case today.

Jesus also said the Spirit will lead us into all truth.

Yes. And why the opinions of men are not important to me.

I'm not sure what that means....

It means a saved and born again man HAS direct access to the Lords Word and His Understanding of His Word. ...
It does not mean Every saved and born again man... utilizes his direct access.

Since we all believe a different truth.

Really? I think it is CLEAR...between THIS and THAT....either a man BELIEVES IN God Almighty....
Or BELIEVES IN God Almighty and Jesus the Christ Messiah...or he doesn't.

Jesus also said that the Spirit would remind us of what Jesus taught.

So, why promote ECF instead of reliance on Jesus directly?

What did Jesus teach become the questions.

No clue what that means.

I do believe the ECFs knew what Jesus taught.
Just as the Apostles knew.

Okay. I believe what Jesus gave them, is no different than what He has offered for me to have.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Phoneman777

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Hey....dodgeball.....Can you PLEASE answer my questions:

It is my understanding that you are an SDA?

Can you quote from your church teachings that they are to be put to death? I can't find it here: Beliefs :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church
Last time I checked, churches are not in the business of doling out judicial punishment for criminal behavior...except the papacy. To this day, the papacy claims it has recourse to punishing heretics.