Infinite Regress

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't think that the Bible will cover us on this explorative investigation of discovering the facts. The Bible is just not good enough when it comes to establishing grounded theories about the topics it raises. At some point everyone has to put their ancient book of beliefs down, and enlist the service of scientific evidence.

You mean like...virgins can't give birth, etc?

 

[Use the Fear]

You mean like...virgins can't give birth, etc?

I'm not following your train of thought here.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm not following your train of thought here.

Like...follow science, you say. And science says, its impossible for donkeys to talk or a virgin to give birth and so on.

 

[Use the Fear]

Like...follow science, you say. And science says, its impossible for donkeys to talk or a virgin to give birth and so on.

I never said follow science, you must use science to improve your understanding of the universe you live in.

Follow the evidence, wherever it may lead. Even if that means it doesn't match up to your beliefs, and you must let those beliefs go.

 

[shnarkle]

I don't think that the Bible will cover us on this explorative investigation of discovering the facts.

Then why refer to it in the first place? Your question presumes these factors as a Given.

The Bible is just not good enough when it comes to establishing grounded theories about the topics it raises.

It's no worse than any other theory. It is a Given that God exists, from there it proceeds quite logically to build on that Given.

At some point everyone has to put their ancient book of beliefs down, and enlist the service of scientific evidence.

At that point they cease from asking theological questions. Evidently, you're not quite ready to put your ancient book of beliefs down either, or did you just come to that conclusion after reading my post? After all, I was presenting logical arguments. Forget about those ancient texts, and simply address the logic in my arguments.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I never said follow science, you must use science to improve your understanding of the universe you live in.

Follow the evidence, wherever it may lead. Even if that means it doesn't match up to your beliefs, and you must let those beliefs go.

Meh...science once said the earth was flat and eggs were very, very bad for me. I'm okay with scientific theories (and laws). But a theory is just a theory.

 

[Use the Fear]

Then why refer to it in the first place? Your question presumes these factors as a Given.



It's no worse than any other theory. It is a Given that God exists, from there it proceeds quite logically to build on that Given.



At that point they cease from asking theological questions. Evidently, you're not quite ready to put your ancient book of beliefs down either, or did you just come to that conclusion after reading my post? After all, I was presenting logical arguments. Forget about those ancient texts, and simply address the logic in my arguments.

You wouldn't have the capacity to rationalise around faulty biblical information, or even assume you can build a cohesive theoretical argument around a bronze age book if you didn't have access to current day scientific methodology.

It's so much of a waste, when you could put your juicy brain to better use. Like using humanities scientific knowledge to improve our conditions. Or maybe you prefer we continue chopping down tree's to build more churches, to print more Bible's. Maybe you prefer we continue to suck this planet's resources dry for the 2.2 billion believer's who need to power more building's than Starbucks.

 

[Stranger]

I don't think that the Bible will cover us on this explorative investigation of discovering the facts. The Bible is just not good enough when it comes to establishing grounded theories about the topics it raises. At some point everyone has to put their ancient book of beliefs down, and enlist the service of scientific evidence.

Horse shit.

Stranger

 

[Use the Fear]

Horse shit.

Stranger

Well that's a very intelligent rebuttal. Just more evidence in my favour that Jesus has absolute zero effect on anybody.

 

[Stranger]

Well that's a very intelligent rebuttal. Just more evidence in my favour that Jesus has absolute zero effect on anybody.

Indeed. It was intelligent. That is all the intelligence needed. When one steps in it, it doesn't need a scientist to tell him.

No effect on anybody? Just look at me and you. Why are we so different? Because of the 'effect' Jesus has.

Stranger

 

[shnarkle]

You wouldn't have the capacity to rationalise around faulty biblical information,

This seems to be your problem, not mine. Again, do you really need to be reminded that you're the one who asked these questions in the first place?

or even assume you can build a cohesive theoretical argument around a bronze age book if you didn't have access to current day scientific methodology.

I don't need a bronze age book or scientific methodology. I addressed your thread with simple logic which you seem incapable of responding to. Instead you've decided to go on a rant about ancient texts which you yourself brought up in the first place. You asked a simple question, and I provided a simple answer with a few simple questions of my own to discover if you have a clue to what you're talking about. Evidently you are unable to address my questions. That's just a simple scientific observation.

It's so much of a waste, when you could put your juicy brain to better use. Like using humanities scientific knowledge to improve our conditions.

And yet here you are presenting a question that is then followed by one deflection after another. How is this improving conditions anywhere? If using scientific knowledge is so great, why are you presenting a discussion on Infinite Regress? Did you present some scientific knowledge proving infinite regression?

Or maybe you prefer we continue chopping down tree's to build more churches,

The timber companies have trees they can't cut down because there's a glut of timber. I haven't seen a church built out of wood in decades. Most of them seem to be tilt up, but supposedly there's a shortage of sand because of this. I can see how you might be concerned about this as well. How will we live without sand?.

...to print more Bible's.

Everything's online now so they just bring their tablets to church. Hell, I even had a couple of traveling evangelists knock on my door the other day with tablets instead of bibles. I was going to tell them that I wasn't interested in hearing what a couple of bible thumpers had to say, but then noticed that they didn't have any bibles. Those sneaky evangelists are so deceitful.

People don't even use paper bags at the grocery store anymore. Plastic is ubiquitous. It's in everything even the food we eat. Those darn Christians need to learn to stop producing all that plastic, or we're all going to die.

Maybe you prefer we continue to suck this planet's resources dry for the 2.2 billion believer's who need to power more building's than Starbucks.

You mean like their homes? You certainly can't be referring to your aforementioned churches, can you? You mean those buildings that are lit up for a few hours once or twice a week? Yeah, that's going to be the end of the power grid for us all. I can see brown outs now from all those Christians lighting candles during their services. Then we can't forget about all those fluorescent signs announcing the times for their services, bible verses, etc.

And here I was under the impression that the earth was being despoiled by multinational corporations. Thanks for enlightening us all to who is really pulling the strings behind the curtains. Now we know that they're all being run by Christians in churches.

Yeah, Christian churches are going to waste all of the natural resources in our world. So what does this have to do with your thread again? Oh, right, these are your deeply held religious beliefs which you're now presenting as a Given, and we're all just supposed to believe this because of what? Your zeal for professing our need to save the planet? Pray tell, what does this have to do with your scientific theory of an infinite regression?

 

[Use the Fear]

Indeed. It was intelligent. That is all the intelligence needed. When one steps in it, it doesn't need a scientist to tell him.

No effect on anybody? Just look at me and you. Why are we so different? Because of the 'effect' Jesus has.

Stranger

Cursing at someone for Jesus? Well there must be a verse in his book that commands you to respond that way. Otherwise you'd just be reacting like any other person who had a hot head.

I'm not upset about it, I have reacted to people that way many times myself. But I don't like reacting that way, in fact it makes me feel worse rather than better. I didn't need Jesus to tell me that, or how he can change my attitude. Obviously the beliefs you have adopted from the Bible are not having the effect's on you as they are recommend to do. So is this your fault or the Bible's fault, it can only be one or the other.

 

[ScottA]

You wouldn't have the capacity to rationalise around faulty biblical information

There is no "faulty biblical information", only faulty perception.

Like I said, you are not understanding.

 

[Use the Fear]

There is no "faulty biblical information", only faulty perception.

Like I said, you are not understanding.

What am I not understanding here?

That your God gives you some unique inner sight that when you believe in him you're actually able to see his kingdom, and all his angels coming and going on the earth. You're actually able to see the activities of demonic being's roaming from place to place possessing, and enslaving people. Do you actually see the world of the spiritual as real as the sun and moon, as real as you and I, that you can sense it with your senses. Or is this sight into the spiritual world composed completely in the darkness of your mind, composed entirely from word's from an ancient book.

Why is it that I must believe to see?

If this spiritual world of Christianity is so real, even more real than this universe, how can Christian's be so divided about what their inner sight sees. How can the world of the spirit be different for each believer, even those in your own groups who possess the same inner sight as you.

 

[Stranger]

Cursing at someone for Jesus? Well there must be a verse in his book that commands you to respond that way. Otherwise you'd just be reacting like any other person who had a hot head.

I'm not upset about it, I have reacted to people that way many times myself. But I don't like reacting that way, in fact it makes me feel worse rather than better. I didn't need Jesus to tell me that, or how he can change my attitude. Obviously the beliefs you have adopted from the Bible are not having the effect's on you as they are recommend to do. So is this your fault or the Bible's fault, it can only be one or the other.

Is 'horseshit' cursing? What a timid and protected life you have lived.

Well, if it bothers you don't do it. If I step in it I call it what it is.

As I said, the Bible and Christ have had an affect which is why you and I are so different.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

What am I not understanding here?

That your God gives you some unique inner sight that when you believe in him you're actually able to see his kingdom, and all his angels coming and going on the earth. You're actually able to see the activities of demonic being's roaming from place to place possessing, and enslaving people. Do you actually see the world of the spiritual as real as the sun and moon, as real as you and I, that you can sense it with your senses. Or is this sight into the spiritual world composed completely in the darkness of your mind, composed entirely from word's from an ancient book.

Why is it that I must believe to see?

If this spiritual world of Christianity is so real, even more real than this universe, how can Christian's be so divided about what their inner sight sees. How can the world of the spirit be different for each believer, even those in your own groups who possess the same inner sight as you.

As I said, it's your perception, you have all the wrong idea. And yet the answers are here with you, all around you--you in fact have experienced it. But while others have been learning, you have learned nothing. You talk about your senses, but you have perceived nothing.

Get off you high horse and listen. Actually use those senses and the head on your shoulders. And before you consider me smug, I will say--No, it is you...and it's not helping. Ready? Pay attention:

In your mother's womb, what did you know of what was to come? What did the experience tell you of what was to come? Was there no music, no other agenda beyond your little world within? Did you not feel the bumps in the road, and the movement? Did you kick? Did you kick just like every other child, and did they all kick and have visions of the world beyond--in unity? What's the matter, were you completely unconscious? Apparently so, because the same is true now, and again you do not perceive that something bigger beyond your own little sleeping bag. And what...now you are going to blame the other children, or your mother and father? Or perhaps you would like to snuggle back into your little nest and not come out and play with the rest of us. Well, there is a still-birth analogy, if you want to go for strike two.

However, what you should be doing is asking questions? Nicely. Humbly. Without the smug attitude, but with the awareness that, "Oh my gosh, these babes are just babes, but they are ahead of me--what have I been missing?"

And that is just one little part of what you should have perceived. This is now round two, and again, you are way behind. You have been unconscious, asleep, kicking without a clue of what is going on all around you--not for nine months, but for thousands of years. Welcome to our collective gestation!

Now...what is it you should be doing?

Ready, set, go!

 

[Use the Fear]

Is 'horseshit' cursing? What a timid and protected life you have lived.

Well, if it bothers you don't do it. If I step in it I call it what it is.

As I said, the Bible and Christ have had an affect which is why you and I are so different.

Stranger

You want me to play into your little game, ok, I will.

Your Messiah is a complete joke, I surrender to the totality of killing your god daily.

One day I will have my desire met, and rid the earth of the belief sickness you call love.

 

[Use the Fear]

There is no "faulty biblical information", only faulty perception.

Like I said, you are not understanding.

Is any language on earth perfect?

Yes, or no?

You fill that one in.

 

[Mayflower]

I would say that God is the beginning and end, because instead of a author writing a book, He is the Book. He is the Word. And the Holy Bible tells of the beginning and end of time. Which the end is either life everlasting or a second death...

You will not find or be able to understand spiritual things from a science book. Spiritual is not measured by a huge amount of evidence. It is measured by faith in an all knowing, all powerful, ever present God. There is no way no one of us can completely comprehend an all powerful, all knowing God. No way. His ways are not our ways.

 

[Use the Fear]

I would say that God is the beginning and end, because instead of a author writing a book, He is the Book. He is the Word. And the Holy Bible tells of the beginning and end of time. Which the end is either life everlasting or a second death...

You will not find or be able to understand spiritual things from a science book. Spiritual is not measured by a huge amount of evidence. It is measured by faith in an all knowing, all powerful, ever present God. There is no way no one of us can completely comprehend an all powerful, all knowing God. No way. His ways are not our ways.

You say that no one can completely understand God, but here you are in this forum saying to me what you think God what's me to hear. I thought you said no one can understand the mind God. So if what you claim about God is true, how are you able to tell me what God thinks?

Do you see how twisted your logic is?

I do, do you?