Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[farouk]

Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?


To answer the title of the op, yes.

Someone already said 'catholic' just means universal.

Salvation is through Christ alone.

The "eucharist" isn't salvific. Denominations are man-made and I don't follow them. Catholicism isn't just "another denomination".

Catholicism teaches false doctrine; there's a difference between being a baptist (e.g.) and preaching immersion rather than sprinkling and being a catholic (or mormon, jehovah's witness, etc.) and preaching another way to God.

I care what people say about catholicism or any other sect that preaches a gospel other than the one preached in scripture because belief in anything else sends people to hell.

Every true believer should care.

The truth of John 14.6 is where salvation lies.

 

[aspen]

I can give you PLENTY of examples of pointing out things to somebody without CALLING them something.

I told my friend to lose weight because he is obese and is in poor health.
I didn‘t CALL him a “Fatso”.

I told my co-worker that she should stop selling her body to men for money.
I never CALLED her a “whore”.

I told my brother that he drank too much at a wedding.
I didn’t CALL him a “drunk”.

I pointed out to some of you that you LIED about what the Catholic Church teaches.
I never CALLED any of you “Liars”.

Face it – the problem here is NOT with ME – it’s with those of you whose LIES I have exposed.
You guys want to lie with impunity – and the one who points it out is the “bad guy”.

What a gigantic hypocrisy . . .

So do you know anyone who sells their body and doesn’t qualify as a whore? Just the very fact that you have included terms that describe the people you decided to confront, means you were thinking about the terms and connecting them to the behavior, even though you didn’t actually label the people out loud.

I doubt you are liberal, so you probably reject political correctness, yet you are guilty of it! Naming behavior is the politically correct way of labeling people. Whether it is a boss telling you “you look tired today, are you getting enough sleep” and meaning, “you are not prepared to work today, get it together” or complimenting a black person by telling him or her that they are “articulate”, which is interpreted as, “thank you for not sounding black”; it is all political correctness. You cannot hide behind naming behavior without getting called on it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So do you know anyone who sells their body and doesn’t qualify as a whore? Just the very fact that you have included terms that describe the people you decided to confront, means you were thinking about the terms and connecting them to the behavior, even though you didn’t actually label the people out loud.

I doubt you are liberal, so you probably reject political correctness, yet you are guilty of it! Naming behavior is the politically correct way of labeling people. Whether it is a boss telling you “you look tired today, are you getting enough sleep” and meaning, “you are not prepared to work today, get it together” or complimenting a black person by telling him or her that they are “articulate”, which is interpreted as, “thank you for not sounding black”; it is all political correctness. You cannot hide behind naming behavior without getting called on it.

RUBBISH.

This is about name-calling – not what I “feel” about a person in my mind or in my heart.
I have been repeatedly accused of CALLING people “liars” and there hasn’t been is not ONE instance of this.

The examples I gave are instances of me pointing out a truth about somebody without resorting to name-calling. If YOU guys are so shallow and obtuse that you can’t atate a truth without name-calling – then I suggest you educate yourselves or get a different hobby . . .

 

[aspen]

RUBBISH.

This is about name-calling – not what I “feel” about a person in my mind or in my heart.
I have been repeatedly accused of CALLING people “liars” and there hasn’t been is not ONE instance of this.

The examples I gave are instances of me pointing out a truth about somebody without resorting to name-calling. If YOU guys are so shallow and obtuse that you can’t atate a truth without name-calling – then I suggest you educate yourselves or get a different hobby . . .

Me?
Nah....
I am just naming behavior
And when I seeing blatant, political correctness
I name it

 

[BreadOfLife]

Me?
Nah....
I am just naming behavior
And when I seeing blatant, political correctness
I name it

No, you jumped on the wrong bandwagon and you're desperately throwing blind punches in the air to cover your tracks . . .

 

[aspen]

why Is it so important
For you to be right?
You are viewed as a bully here
The very thing you are fighting

Oh the irony.....

I am not taking sides
I call it like I see it
Describing behavior is PC
It evades responsibility

A bit cowardly and dishonest as well

I doubt God is going to look at your excuse, and say
“yep! You got me! You didn’t ACTUALLY CALL anyone a liar. come here you rascal!”
Stepping over the bodies lying in your wake.......

 

[prism]

The Church is Christ’s very BODY and He is the Head (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 12).

Well that would certainly rule out the pedophiles claiming to be His Church/Body.

 

[BreadOfLife]

why Is it so important
For you to be right?
You are viewed as a bully here
The very thing you are fighting

Oh the irony.....

I am not taking sides
I call it like I see it
Describing behavior is PC
It evades responsibility

A bit cowardly and dishonest as well

I doubt God is going to look at your excuse, and say
“yep! You got me! You didn’t ACTUALLY CALL anyone a liar. come here you rascal!”
Stepping over the bodies lying in your wake.......

Frankly - I don't care if people think I'm a "bully" because the main reason for this is that they don't like to be exposed.

When somebody steals - the LAST thing they want is to be caught. The same is true for people who LIE or cheat on their souse or do any other manner of wrongdoing. The whistle-blower is always the "bad guy" - and not the person committing the sin.
It's hypocrisy.

As for my being "PC" - you REALLY don't know me.
If you believe that telling the truth is "PC" - then you have some pretty warped ideas.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well that would certainly rule out the pedophiles claiming to be His Church/Body.

Yes, it would.
Do you think it cancels out the thousands of pedophiles in the Protestant sects?

 

[epostle]

LOL, Rather outside of Christ there is no salvation. It was mostly those who clung to their Traditions that booted Jesus Christ out of their synagogues...the community Church of that day.

Wrong. Jesus excoriated the Jews for their man made traditions. To say that Jesus condemned ALL traditions is a man made radical Protestant tradition in itself. They think it defends sola scriptura, which is another man made tradition.
Wrong on the second count. Those who booted Christ out of the synagogues were not the community church of that day. Your attempt to equate the community Church with rebellious Jews is biblically and historically absurd.

 

[aspen]

As far as pedophilia is concern it is a terrible thing for certain, but if you sent your kid to school and to scouts you have a much greater chance of running into the issue - if you condemn Catholicism and your kid is an Eagle Scout you really have some kind of crazy prejudice.

 

[prism]

Yes, it would.
Do you think it cancels out the thousands of pedophiles in the Protestant sects?

Naturally. The point being is that His Church is not a visible-only entity, but those gathered and are truly regenerated by His Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Naturally. The point being is that His Church is not a visible-only entity, but those gathered and are truly regenerated by His Spirit.

NOT according to Christ.
HIS Church is a visible entity - not a secret gaggle of "hidden" believers . . .

Matt. 5:14-16
“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

 

[prism]

NOT according to Christ.
HIS Church is a visible entity - not a secret gaggle of "hidden" believers . . .

Matt. 5:14-16
“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

This reminds me of confronting other cults, they have 'pat' answers without hearing the statement/question.
I added 'AND are truly regenerated' but you only saw 'not a visible-only entity', probably because like most 'religious Christians' you don't have a clue what receiving the new nature is like not having received it yourself.

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(Joh 3:7-8)

But as long as you have been spoon fed your cult's teaching that we are born again in baptism as infants, you will remain in darkness hiding behind the walls of your historical edifice.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This reminds me of confronting other cults, they have 'pat' answers without hearing the statement/question.
I added 'AND are truly regenerated' but you only saw 'not a visible-only entity', probably because like most 'religious Christians' you don't have a clue what receiving the new nature is like not having received it yourself.

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(Joh 3:7-8)

But as long as you have been spoon fed your cult's teaching that we are born again in baptism as infants, you will remain in darkness hiding behind the walls of your historical edifice.

First of all - the Catholic Church is not a "cult" - it's the Church started by Christ and His Apostles.
The sect YOU belong to only came about sometime in the last 500 years - probably the last 100.

Secondly - we ARE born again at Baptism. This isn't something that the Catholic Church "invented" - these are the words of Christ Himself.

John 3:1-5
Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be BORN AGAIN? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and SPIRIT.

Let’s examine . . .
a) Jesus tells Nicodemus that you must be “born from above” in order to see the Kingdom of Heaven.
b) Nicodemus asks Jesus HOW a person is BORN AGAIN.
c) Jesus tells him that we are born again from WATER and SPIRIT.

2 chapters earlier, we see the Baptism of Jesus. What two elements do we see??
WATER and the Holy Spirit.

Immediately following the meeting with Nicodemus, where does Jesus go??
To the river to BAPTIZE with His Apostles.

The unanimous testimonies of the Early Church Fathers agree: We are born again at Baptism.
In fact - there is not ONE SINGLE Church Father that taught differently.

It wasn’t until 1500 years later when your Protestant Fathers decided that they knew “better” and changed this teaching.

 

[prism]

First of all - the Catholic Church is not a "cult" - it's the Church started by Christ and His Apostles.
The sect YOU belong to only came about sometime in the last 500 years - probably the last 100.

Secondly - we ARE born again at Baptism. This isn't something that the Catholic Church "invented" - these are the words of Christ Himself.

John 3:1-5
Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be BORN AGAIN? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and SPIRIT.

Let’s examine . . .
a) Jesus tells Nicodemus that you must be “born from above” in order to see the Kingdom of Heaven.
b) Nicodemus asks Jesus HOW a person is BORN AGAIN.
c) Jesus tells him that we are born again from WATER and SPIRIT.

2 chapters earlier, we see the Baptism of Jesus. What two elements do we see??
WATER and the Holy Spirit.

Immediately following the meeting with Nicodemus, where does Jesus go??
To the river to BAPTIZE with His Apostles.

The unanimous testimonies of the Early Church Fathers agree: We are born again at Baptism.
In fact - there is not ONE SINGLE Church Father that taught differently.

It wasn’t until 1500 years later when your Protestant Fathers decided that they knew “better” and changed this teaching.

Acts 11:16 (KJV) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ephesians 5:26 (KJV) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:11-14)

I grew up in a Spanish community engulfed in the lies of Rome. Many had been baptized in the RCC as infants. Were they born again? Gangs, Cholos, Patchukos, prostitution, drive-bys, Molotov cocktails, drugs. etc. etc. Is this your idea of the one true Church? Not once had I been witnessed to during those years by a RC about the saving grace of God in Christ Jesus
What a joke. Keep your false beliefs.

 

[epostle]

Acts 11:16 (KJV) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ephesians 5:26 (KJV) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:11-14)

I grew up in a Spanish community engulfed in the lies of Rome. Many had been baptized in the RCC as infants. Were they born again? Gangs, Cholos, Patchukos, prostitution, drive-bys, Molotov cocktails, drugs. etc. etc. Is this your idea of the one true Church? Not once had I been witnessed to during those years by a RC about the saving grace of God in Christ Jesus
What a joke. Keep your false beliefs.

"Gangs, Cholos, Patchukos, prostitution, drive-bys, Molotov cocktails, drugs. etc. etc." is not the fault of the Catholic Church, but the fault of those who refuse to follow her teachings. If you hate the Catholic Church, you hate Jesus. Period.

"the saving grace of God in Christ Jesus" is a doctrine you borrowed from the Catholic Church, and is proclaimed daily. You are so angry you cannot be reasoned with.

 

[Giuliano]

I'm not condemning Protestants. Many of them fall into the "invincible ignorance" category.
I am merely parroting what the Church teaches and has taught for many centuries - namely that ALL who get saved are saved through Christ's Church.

How far back does the phrase "invincible ignorance" go? What an odd phrase too. Is it meant to attract or drive Protestants away?

Catholicism does not exclude Protestants from being part of the Church, their separation is a matter of varying degrees. It's certain Protestants who refuse to understand what Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus really means. The meaning was first taught by the Apostles; the phrase summarizes consistent teaching.

When I checked the Catechism, it cited St. Cyprian for that phrase.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText section 846, note 335

 

[prism]

Gangs, Cholos, Patchukos, prostitution, drive-bys, Molotov cocktails, drugs. etc. etc." is not the fault of the Catholic Church, but the fault of those who refuse to follow her teachings. If you hate the Catholic Church, you hate Jesus. Period.

The claim was made that one is born again even through infant baptism. These kids were baptized in the RCC and lived no different than other heathens.
Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses can make the same idiotic claim you did..."If you hate the Mormons, you hate Jesus. Period."

"the saving grace of God in Christ Jesus" is a doctrine you borrowed from the Catholic Church, and is proclaimed daily. You are so angry you cannot be reasoned with

No, it is simply a doctrine borrowed from the writings of the Jewish Prophets and Apostles which has been usurped by Rome as their own..another lie.
Jesus and John the Baptist had righteous indignation againt the false religious system, hypocrisy and liars of their day as well. I grew up in the belly of the Beast called the RCC, and have seen the tremendous damage it does to societies. I lived in them pre Vatican II and saw the superstitions abound as people were discouraged from reading the Scriptures on their own. (ad hominems won't help your defense of the RCC).

 

[epostle]

The claim was made that one is born again even through infant baptism. These kids were baptized in the RCC and lived no different than other heathens.
Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses can make the same idiotic claim you did..."If you hate the Mormons, you hate Jesus. Period."

No, it is simply a doctrine borrowed from the writings of the Jewish Prophets and Apostles which has been usurped by Rome as their own..another lie.
Jesus and John the Baptist had righteous indignation againt the false religious system, hypocrisy and liars of their day as well. I grew up in the belly of the Beast called the RCC, and have seen the tremendous damage it does to societies. I lived in them pre Vatican II and saw the superstitions abound as people were discouraged from reading the Scriptures on their own. (ad hominems won't help your defense of the RCC).

Your anti-Catholicism has been refuted a million times.
Anti-Catholicism (Index Page for Apologist Dave Armstrong)

You have to keep us on the defensive with your ridiculous attacks to justify the late arrival and man made system that you won't even name.

You believe Catholics were discouraged from reading the Scriptures on their own because you have been poisoned by anti-Catholic propaganda. That's why ex-Catholics become anti-Catholics.

https://nypost.com/2017/03/05/pope-francis-read-the-bible-as-often-as-your-cellphone/

There are two Bible readings at every daily Mass, and 3 on Sunday, more "Bible" than a month of Protestant services. You couldn't have been much of a Catholic to have missed that.

Was Catholicism the Avowed Enemy of the Bible by Dave Armstrong ::

You cannot be reasoned with.