Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,083
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@brakelite @Enoch111 @GodsGrace

100% adherence to official doctrine....in any denomination, is a pipe dream. The belief that "only their denomination will save a person" is common in many denominations, not just the Catholic Church.
What most Catholics believe and what the Vatican believes can be very different.
Just yesterday the ladies were talking about being a little more tolerant. God love'em.
When discussing beliefs outside our own, a foot hold in the reality of what is really happening is a good thing to consider.
We have seen corruption in the leadership of many denominations, but that does not invalidate the beliefs of the people in that denomination.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Oh, the church would just love to hear that. If you want to surrender your eternal destiny into the hands of man, that's your business. My faith is in God's ability to teach me through His word, prayer, providence. I wouldn't trust even the brightest of theologians, regardless of how many letters after his name.
Wha?

What do you mean?
Your salvation would still depend on your relationship with God.
The only thing that would change is that we'd all agree on what
1 Corinthians 3:15 means...because it wouldn't be up to each one of
us INDIVIDUALLY to figure out what it means.

Don't you believe in ABSOLUTE truths?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grailhunter

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
@brakelite @Enoch111 @GodsGrace

100% adherence to official doctrine....in any denomination, is a pipe dream. The belief that "only their denomination will save a person" is common in many denominations, not just the Catholic Church.
What most Catholics believe and what the Vatican believes can be very different.
Just yesterday the ladies were talking about being a little more tolerant. God love'em.
When discussing beliefs outside our own, a foot hold in the reality of what is really happening is a good thing to consider.
We have seen corruption in the leadership of many denominations, but that does not invalidate the beliefs of the people in that denomination.
I think you must be aware of the fact that a Catholic is required to believe in all the dogmas and even in the doctrine of that church. If a person does not believe in something there is a routine to follow.

I say this because there are many catholics that call themselves "good catholics", whatever that is, that DO NOT believe all the dogma OR all the doctrine of the church...priests know this..not much to do about it.

We have seen corruption in all denominations...good statement.
You said that does not invalidate the beliefs of the people in that denomination.

I'll go one step further....
A church could be corrupt,,,,but the Church of God will always be holy.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,083
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think you must be aware of the fact that a Catholic is required to believe in all the dogmas and even in the doctrine of that church. If a person does not believe in something there is a routine to follow.

I say this because there are many catholics that call themselves "good catholics", whatever that is, that DO NOT believe all the dogma OR all the doctrine of the church...priests know this..not much to do about it.

We have seen corruption in all denominations...good statement.
You said that does not invalidate the beliefs of the people in that denomination.

I'll go one step further....
A church could be corrupt,,,,but the Church of God will always be holy.

Obviously, I agree with all of that......
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
So let’s stop tap dancing BOL...are all these Christians here, just pretending? Are they taking the Eucharist improperly and therefore doomed? And if so in your mind, why do you care what they say about Catholicism? Why are you Hellbent on molesting the Goats?

“Smithers! release the hounds”
If we look at the fact that there is no life outside or apart from Christ which includes his many-membered body, I'm not sure this allows us to ignore our command to point out this reality to those who are still ignorant. Perhaps our job would be easier if we had the discernment to distinguish the sheep from the wolves. There's really no point in proclaiming the gospel to the wolves, right? Although, now that I think about it, perhaps it does allow us to discern them by how they react to it, right?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Have you been to a Catholic bible study?
Deception is one of the tools of the RCC. But since the Catechism is their *operating manual* you should study that and then ask their priests why they have failed to go by what it says. I could quote extensively from it and also from other Catholic sources to confirm that they have not changed. But to keep it simple ask the priests if they believe that PURGATORY IS PURE FANTASY (which non-Catholics and even the Orthodox believe). That should settle the issue.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Deception is one of the tools of the RCC. But since the Catechism is their *operating manual* you should study that and then ask their priests why they have failed to go by what it says. I could quote extensively from it and also from other Catholic sources to confirm that they have not changed. But to keep it simple ask the priests if they believe that PURGATORY IS PURE FANTASY (which non-Catholics and even the Orthodox believe). That should settle the issue.
You want I should study the CCC?
What makes you think I haven't?
I'm in a light mood and have scanned my copy.
Oh. And what makes you think I don't speak to priests?


CCC.jpeg
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Deception is one of the tools of the RCC. But since the Catechism is their *operating manual* you should study that and then ask their priests why they have failed to go by what it says. I could quote extensively from it and also from other Catholic sources to confirm that they have not changed. But to keep it simple ask the priests if they believe that PURGATORY IS PURE FANTASY (which non-Catholics and even the Orthodox believe). That should settle the issue.
OK. now seriously.
some priests are pretty upset that the church has wandered from what the CCC states...which is SUPPOSED TO BE what the magesterum teaches.

Have YOU spoken to any priests lately?
There is where you'll find what is being taught...not in that stuff the pope writes that 75% of people don't even understand. The percentage might even be higher.

And if I asked priests (a few different ones) if purgatory exists what do YOU think they'd say?

And what exactly is the CC deceiving its people about?
Maybe the magesterum really believes purgatory exists?
See 1 Cor 3:13........ it's supposedly about purgatory.

all the thief that had to pay back every penny....
The book of Macabees helps their beliefs in praying to the dead a lot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

illini1959

Active Member
May 21, 2019
134
81
28
64
Central IL
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?
So let’s stop tap dancing BOL...are all these Christians here, just pretending? Are they taking the Eucharist improperly and therefore doomed? And if so in your mind, why do you care what they say about Catholicism? Why are you Hellbent on molesting the Goats?

“Smithers! release the hounds”

To answer the title of the op, yes.

Someone already said 'catholic' just means universal.

Salvation is through Christ alone.

The "eucharist" isn't salvific. Denominations are man-made and I don't follow them. Catholicism isn't just "another denomination".

Catholicism teaches false doctrine; there's a difference between being a baptist (e.g.) and preaching immersion rather than sprinkling and being a catholic (or mormon, jehovah's witness, etc.) and preaching another way to God.

I care what people say about catholicism or any other sect that preaches a gospel other than the one preached in scripture because belief in anything else sends people to hell.

Every true believer should care.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I mean, think about it. @"ByGrace" was saying that we could come to a mutual agreement if we discuss....how could that be? She believes in eternal security and I believe in conditional eternal security. We both cannot be right. MAYBE we DO need a church with intelligent theologians that can tell us which is correct?


What I said is right here in this link:- You must be born again through water baptism

I said - 'the balance of truth'... :) I also said " agree to disagree" ...relationship always trumps being right. If you sacrifice a relationship to prove being right...then the bridge is burned, the door of communication closed ...and there is no further access to continue dropping truth on someone.

There is always truth in the errors. If Satan told a whole lie no one would believe it...he sells his lies wrapped up in truth... most times he uses more truth than lies... any fool would see a glaring lie and so not fall for his error.

I have said before...I will never argue scriptures any more, I used to...but with so much in the bible any doctrine can be argued both ways.
We can find a verse leaning heavily one way when it stands alone, ( as the Calvinists quote one verse over and over) ...but then there is always a verse that seemingly says just the opposite...the balance if found in whole context.. not a verse here and a verse there.

I have seen it done...I was at a conference once, where the key speaker proved this. ( since then I will not argue scripture any more, its silly)
He took 45 mins and 'proved' by many scriptures OSAS... ( and universalism ) Then he took 45 mins and 'proved' that just a handful , the elect , actually go to heaven.

Both argument were totally convincing. Then he said...'believing either argument will not change your basic salvation or your relationship with God' ...
...his wife believed in ' The Restoration of All Things'...as do I, he does not... their relationship was strong and harmonious.
What they each believed did not change their eternal destination.

Why some people feel that they just must change someone else's mind on something , I have no idea.

Half the arguments on here are here, just for the sake of arguing...
 
Last edited:

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
70
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?


To answer the title of the op, yes.

Someone already said 'catholic' just means universal.

Salvation is through Christ alone.

The "eucharist" isn't salvific. Denominations are man-made and I don't follow them. Catholicism isn't just "another denomination".

Catholicism teaches false doctrine; there's a difference between being a baptist (e.g.) and preaching immersion rather than sprinkling and being a catholic (or mormon, jehovah's witness, etc.) and preaching another way to God.

I care what people say about catholicism or any other sect that preaches a gospel other than the one preached in scripture because belief in anything else sends people to hell.

Every true believer should care.

I placed a I like what you said, But I am not sure where you were going, Paul stated that some were of Paul, and some of Peter, and some of James, OK, not an exact Quote! but you know what I mean, and I Agree that What Jesus began to do and Teach, until He was taken Up, Acts 1 chapt 1 is the Gospel of the Kingdom. What say Ye? Matthew is all about the King from Heaven, laying down the rules [ Constitution ] of the Kingdom of Heaven, and if you read slowly and consider what Jesus is Teaching, how con we miss that! What is Your take on this!
I know this is out of context with this Thread, but just the same I am just Curious!!
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,083
5,276
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What I said was right in this link:- You must be born again through water baptism

I said - the balance of truth... :) I also said " agree to disagree" ...relationship always trumps being right. If you sacrifice a relationship to prove being right...then the bridge is burned, the door of communication closed ...and there is no further access to continue dropping truth on someone.

There is always truth in the errors. If Satan told a whole lie no one would believe it...he sells his lies wrapped up in truth... most time more truth than lie... any fool would see a glaring lie and not fall for error.

I have said before...I will never argue scriptures any more, I used to...but with so much in the bible any doctrine can be argued both ways.
We can find a verse leaning heavily one way, when standing alone, ( as the Calvinists quote one verse over and over) ...but then there is always a verse that seemingly says just the opposite...the balance if found in whole context.. not a verse here and a verse there.

I have sen it done...I was at a conference once, where the key speaker proved this. ( since then I will not argue scripture, its silly) He took 45 mins and 'proved' by many scriptures OSAS... ( and universalism ) Then he took 45 mins and 'proved' that just a handful , the elect actually go to heaven.

Both argument were totally convincing. Then he said...believing either one will not change your basic salvation or your relationship with God... his wife believed in ' The Restoration of All Things'...he did not... their relationship was string and harmonious.
What they each believed did not change their eternal destination.
Why some people feel that they just must change someone else's mind on something , I have no idea.

Half the argument on here are just for the sake of arguing...

Helen is is a wonder you do not have wise-kers! :)
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,275
3,091
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Catholicism teaches false doctrine; ...and preaching another way to God.

Hello illini,
I'm curious, have you examined what we teach, believe and live, and rejected it? Or are you just taking someone elses assertions about what we believe to make that accusation?

What 'other way' to God do you think we preach?

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2019
1,879
938
113
62
Port Richey, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
GG, partaking of the sacraments is essential to salvation according to the CC. View attachment 6942
[John 6:53 NASB] 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

... it is pretty important according to Jesus, too.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
I grew up Catholic, and identified as such well into my twenties. I knew many wonderful people in that church who lived 100% according to the light they had...I am positive God accepts them as much as any other. The same applies to all denominations.
My concern regarding the Catholic church lies in the Vatican's long established belief that only in the Catholic church can any be saved, coupled with their political aspirations for global hegemony. Europe suffered terribly at the hands of papal dominion during the dark ages. The Bible loudly proclaims throughout prophecy that there is coming a global union of church and state that enforces religious laws upon the whole world, and in some manner forbids buying and selling unless one complies. Finally, there is a death sentence pronounce upon all dissenters.
Looking now at current world events and the direction the Vatican is heading, or has been heading throughout the last 3 or 4 papal heads, and how Francis in particular, in complete harmony with his predecessors, is actively seeking to be the leader in the coming NWO, one can be fully justified in applying the biblical warnings about the mark of the beast and the Antichrist to the present Jesuit led push for global dominion, and the inevitable resulting persecutions against those who refuse to go along with it.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
[John 6:53 NASB] 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

... it is pretty important according to Jesus, too.
Jesus said in relation to the eating of His flesh, that His words are spiritual not literal. And yes, eating His words and making them the essence of your life is essential.
Even as a Catholic child, I was always very uncomfortable thinking I was eating God. Jesus being metaphorically the "Bread of life" and that man cannot live by bread alone
but by every word of God now makes so much more sense
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,448
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I happen to firmly believe that each of the denominations we have invented is an example of stepping away from God. Actually, an exercise in turning our back on the unity Jesus died for. And Catholicism is just another denomination.
While I believe you are onto the right pathway, young people [not necessarily physically young] can get started almost anywhere if they are properly hungry and their hearts are open. Problems may come hard against them as they grow closer to God and their particular church group by their ways and their rules and their prescribed doctrines quench the Holy Spirit.