Once Saved Always Saved Garbage Teaching!!
- Thread starter DoveSpirit05
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I see conditional security in heaven, with something like the tree of knowledge of good and evil being present in that environment.
The for ever fear of the Lord, and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, keeping those who have learned their lessons well from ever eating of the tree.
The for ever fear of the Lord, and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, keeping those who have learned their lessons well from ever eating of the tree.
@justbyfaith
These two seem good.
What they call the Covenant of Redemption...
is also called The Adamic Covenant. (this comes AFTER the fall).
The Edenic covenant - What is it?
What is the Edenic covenant? | GotQuestions.org
These two seem good.
What they call the Covenant of Redemption...
is also called The Adamic Covenant. (this comes AFTER the fall).
The Edenic covenant - What is it?
What is the Edenic covenant? | GotQuestions.org
My bad, I realize you said, Edenic covenant, not Evic covenant. For some reason I thought you were speaking of a covenant between God and Eve...and it sounded extrabiblical to me.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I know that is what you believe, and I respect that. It is a hard question. But it is a question that has to be resolved for the Bible to be whole.
We tend to think one dimensionally, this is it, one chance only. Only one chance for the Jews sitting in Sheol, but they all went to hell.....probably not. The sheep that wonders off....the son that goes astray....still the sheep He loves most....still our son. Could Christ possibly have the power and love to figure that out?
There theology is called "Hyper grace" or "free grace". Joseph Prince from Singapore is one such leader who holds
this theology. It is also surprisingly widespread under different teachers and groups.
The common word they have is you would do well if you listened to the right teacher.
They are surprisingly fearful of those who listen to Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
The truth is unless ones heart is purified and pursuing Jesus, one has nothing.
It is completely absurd if you saw the price Jesus paid going to the cross, the heroic nature of the love He shares
and represents to think compromise and evil has anything to do with Him. One sign of this hypocrisy is in the reaction
to Gods people just praising the Lord for what He has done for us, Amen. Glory to God for the cross and His power
to indwell us with the Holy Spirit and anoint our steps as we walk in the Kingdom.
I go back to some forums and all they are full of is moaning at the people not accepting what they preach, not seeing
more of Gods glory. We need to see in our minds, our hearts, our souls God at work, because without this we are lost,
eternally. Sow to the Spirit or die. Fear and trembling is no joke, is you have no desire to walk the way of love, because
what awaits is truly terrible, much more so, if you have already been warned and have treated such things with contempt.
Sorry,,,I missed this.
The sealing of the Holy Spirit is so misunderstood.
I can't get into now,,,will be logging off soon.
If I get an alert from you TOMORROW MORNING,,,I WILL reply to this.
Romans 10:10 faith....
There are too many IFs FALLING AWAYs CONTINUINGs KEEPING THE FAITHs in the bible or I would be easily convinced.
What about the Early Apostolic Fathers?
The ones who learned from the Apostles...
The ones who put together the canonized N.T....
Do they count to you?
The “apostles’ doctrine” is the compilation of the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles who wrote the Holy Spirit inspired books which make up the canon of the New Testament. Nothing could be nor ever will be more authoritatively divine than Holy Scripture.
This chapter will feature the intriguing and telling words of some of the earliest servants of Christ who lived to carry forth the Gospel and work of Jesus after the twelve were deceased. One should witness a consistency in these words with the doctrine of Christ and His holy apostles as recorded in the New Testament Scriptures. These early disciples spoke in accordance with the oracles of God (1 Pet. 4:11). Regrettably, as time went on under this New Covenant era, the prophesied apostasy in the church world began to transpire and escalate. Deceivers began to wax worse and worse and they will continue until the return of our LORD and the ultimate setting up of His eternal kingdom (2 Tim. 3:13).
These men, whose words you are about to read, were not far removed from the original apostles of our LORD and His Gospel and held fast to His Word – “the apostle’s doctrine.” (Acts 2:42)
“Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse.” (2 Tim. 3:13) It is interesting to observe the words of some of the leaders in the Church world throughout these New Testament centuries. Many of these men held to the biblical revelation of salvation – how it is received and how it is maintained. It may interest you to know that Polycarp was the direct disciple of the apostle John. These men addressed this unconditional eternal security matter that had already sprung forth from diabolical origins soon after Christ had risen again from the dead. Later, John Calvin came on the scene and grossly perverted the grace of God as foretold by Jude in Jude 3-4. Calvin set forth and re-established the lie that would continue through the centuries to be responsible for the damnation of millions of souls who believed and died believing they were eternally secure no matter what spiritual state they died in.
QUOTES FROM EARLY CHURCH FATHERS BEFORE THE CORRUPTION OF UNCONDITIONAL ETERNAL SECURITY SET IN: (in quoting these men, we are not condoning everything they might have taught in other areas of doctrine)
“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, A.D.110)
“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)
“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)
“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)
“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)
“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)
“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)
“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)
“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)
“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“God gives forgiveness of past sins. However, as to future sins, each one procures this for himself. He does this by repenting, by condemning past deeds, and by begging the Father to blot them out.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.” (Tertullian, A.D. 198)
“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)
“A son who deserts his father in order not to pay him obedience is considered deserving of being disinherited and having his name removed forever from his family.” (Lactaintius, A.D. 304)
“He who sins after baptism, unless he forsakes his sins, will be condemned to Gehenna.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“Having obtained good proof that thy mind is fixed in God as upon an immovable rock, I loudly glorify [His name] that I have been thought worthy [to behold] thy blameless face which may I ever enjoy in God! I entreat thee, by the grace with which thou art clothed, to press forward in thy course, and to exhort all that they may be saved. Maintain thy position with all care, both in the flesh and spirit.” (The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp, 1:1)
“God is a God of mercy and compassion, He is long suffering, patient, and willing to call you back, but if one persists in willful abandonment and blasphemy against His Spirit, how can He put up with that?” unknown
I understand and agree that debating is not the best thing to do which is why I give up after 2 or 3 posts.
I'm not sure though, that @FollowHim was speaking about sin.
I do believe he means A LIFE OF SIN....grieving the Holy Spirit time after time.
I happen to know some of these persons he's speaking about.
Right.
Theologians call it a Covenant because it was plainly an agreement between God and man.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There is a point and I am in neither camp. No claim can be absolute because there are usually exceptions. The question is, what are they, are we going to know. Now if Grailhunter kills thousands of Jews and cooks them in ovens, is he going to go to a bad place, my bet is yes. Now if someone from the family of God runs off and disowns everybody, is he still a son? Is the reward for someone that lives a good life going to be the same as one that does bad things....no. You have the parable of the vineyard and the workers getting the same wages. Those that believe in Christ are saved the same, not going to hell....that does not mean that they are all going to get the same reward.
This brings to mind three parables, one after the other:
Luke 15:1-32
The Lost Sheep
The sheep wanders off. The owner is sad.
He goes to find the lost sheep and when he finds
it he is happy and carries the sheep home and gives his friends the good news.
The Lost Coin
The coin becomes lost through coincidence.
The owner might have dropped it by mistake, or misplaced it.
It did NOT wander off....
The owner was happy when she found it and rejoiced.
The Prodigal Son
The son PURPOSEFULLY decides to leave his father and home.
He gets his full inheritance (2/3) and will receive no more inheritance.
He acts unwisely and finds himself poor and hungry and feeding swine...a dirty animal.
He goes back home where his father is waiting for him to return..
a feast is given.
In all 3 of the above, something becomes lost in different ways and is then found again.
I do believe Jesus spoke to this.
And with that, I am logging off and saying good night.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Going to take a guess here and say that this "group" is most likely "Reformed" to the extreme...and perhaps think of themselves as the "elect"?
What people often forget is we are not objective. Our hearts deceive us deeply and truly.
Wherever we stand, that is the right place, because that is where we are standing. It is why the lost will never
know or the saved in a absolute sense. What we can know is the fruit of the Spirit and how we feel about Jesus
and His people.
John uses this as his measuring stick. Love Jesus, His word and His people and you are on the path. Get angry,
full of hatred, look for any excuse to get at Jesus and His people, you are in a wrong place. It is possible to repent,
and God does grant some the grace to listen and follow, while others get harder and harder, more convinced they
are right and the true evil people are those guys over there who should fry, today, if possible.
It is why the Kingdom is about our minds and our hearts and our walk. All three need to be in a line, cleansed, made
Holy, lifting up praise and thanks to our King for His unbelievable blessing everyday.
What is like light, is when some hate me sharing or saying this? It is what we are called to do, to get in the place at
the foot of the cross, knowing how unworthy we are, and how the Lord has anointed us to call us Sons of God, friends,
to share His throne. How many friends take you to their best places, their best houses and offices and put you in the
chair of power and say, you help me, you carry this with me together? None. Literally none, but Jesus does.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Sometime we need to talk about Christianity in the United Kingdom, just curious. And good post. Still the question is, what camp are you in?
Or do you agree that we should work to bring these scriptures in harmony?
We may not be objective but God certainly is. And if God says it THAT SETTLES IT. Any claim about the uncertainty of salvation is actually UNBELIEF -- you don't really believe God! And yet you say you are spiritual.
But who creates uncertainty about salvation? The enemy of our souls -- the devil. So what you should be doing is stepping away from all your false notions, and going back to a careful review of everything concerning salvation, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the finished work of Christ. Invest in Nave's Topical Bible (KJV hard copy) and get down to business.
Nondenom40
Active Member
Of course i did. Its called conviction. Both sides are right? You can lose your salvation. You can't lose your salvation. Both are right? Is monotheism and atheism both correct?
Nondenom40
Active Member
I doubt new/young believers are going to be turned off by any discussion here. Young believers should be in a discipleship program at their church. The growing is in their own study, not here. And, we are told to contend earnestly for the faith; Jude 3. As someone said, theology matters.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
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