Character

[Mayflower]

How much weight do you place in a person’s character when voting for our leaders?
If you do value good character in your choice of leader, how do you respond to their bad behavior?

If you ignore bad behavior in the person you elected to office, do you make an issue of bad character traits in leaders you do not agree with?

I am guessing that a popular strategy is to ignore bad character in leaders we vote for - because members of our tribe cannot have bad character because they are members of our tribe! And the opposite happens when it is a leader from another tribe in power.

For those who are honest and have this insight into themselves, why do you do it? How do you avoid feeling like a hypocrite? Is it a fear thing - you have a hard time admitting that the short term benefits out weight the long term results? Is it that bad character is worth the long term benefits - the right judges will be put in place, the right regulations will be abolished? Do you just want to ‘stick it’ to government?

I really want to know.

I try to read up on biography/history. I just don't trust the news or media. If someone gets things done, and is a fighter, has similar views to me, then I have seen God use not so good leaders in God's Word to fulfill His purpose. I agree the country itself needs a revival. I also think of the leaders who saw God working and changed themselves, declaring God as one true God. Like Daniel and the lions. So no, this is not a "Christian Nation." So we can't expect to vote in a perfect man of character. I go by the values, because my God is King and I trust Him whether it happens or not.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Mueller is not the right person to hold the President accountable. Congress is supposed to do this - even if they tried to make Mueller do it. Now, the House has to act and hopefully will do so quickly.

I said Mueller would not recommend indictment....recommend it to the House.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I try to read up on biography/history. I just don't trust the news or media. If someone gets things done, and is a fighter, has similar views to me, then I have seen God use not so good leaders in God's Word to fulfill His purpose. I agree the country itself needs a revival. I also think of the leaders who saw God working and changed themselves, declaring God as one true God. Like Daniel and the lions. So no, this is not a "Christian Nation." So we can't expect to vote in a perfect man of character. I go by the values, because my God is King and I trust Him whether it happens or not.

Amen, Mayflower, this is what I have repeatedly said in different wording about our governing leaders. His ways are above ours, His thoughts we cannot comprehend, we just trust His Will in these matters.

 

[4Jesus]

Oh, I'm sorry. No, I said what I said because of your obvious hypocrisy: claiming Christ, but spewing hate.

How am I hateful if I am praying for Trump to ask Jesus to forgive his sins and save him? Please explain this.

That is not hateful, thus your argument about me being a hypocrit is false. And that is a false accusation.

It is indeed "being unfairly critical" by making your fight against flesh and blood, against one whom God has raised up. You have given no credit to God, but only discredited the man.

How is it that God sees this man to be perfect for these times, and you do not?

God will also raise up the beast/antichrist. Are you going to support him/her too, because God raised him/her up? Will you take the mark of the beast because God raised him up?

Your argument is ridiculous. If you do not agree with supporting the beast/antichrist because God raised him up, your whole argument is nullified about supporting Trump because God raised him up.

And I have given credit to God, by stating that I believe God raised Trump up to show that he cannot lead...all the credit to God to once again prove that man cannot rule man. Therefore your accusation that I "have given no credit to God" is false. You have yet again falsely accused me.

Do you not know it is wrong to falsely accuse someone?

 

[4Jesus]

Calm down Scott
If you want to use this line of reasoning - that we are not allowed to pretend Trump is a great President and a good man because God raised him up than I expect you to do the same towards Obama and the democrat occupying the White House after Trumps impeachment.

And also the beast/antichrist, per the book of Revelation. God will also raise up the beast, should that mean Christians are to follow him and support him? Should Christians then take the mark of the beast because God raised up the beast?

This is no different than God raising up a man who stated he never asked God for forgiveness, and obviously can't lead.

 

[4Jesus]

Trying to downplay the backstabbing deceit of doing something like that is a little weak. A MAN would have simply walked away from it, not tried to profit by turning on the organization with his inside information.

Since you didn't answer my non-rhetorical question, I'll ask once again: Are you saying you are not open to non-Christians changing hearts and ways to become converted and saved in Christ? Even those who were deceitful before the conversion?

 

[4Jesus]

Your question may as well be a trap. So I will answer you with a similar question: Is is wrong for God to raise up leaders if only He can rule men? By asking in the way that you have, you have caught yourself in your own trap.

No, it's not wrong for God to raise up whoever He wants. Each one is an example of why God-the-Father and God-the-Son should rule here on Earth.

It is wrong to support someone who God raised up who is not a Christian, such as the beast/antichrist, Hitler, Trump, Kim Jong Un, etc.

God raised up Kim Jong Un too Scott, do you support Un too?

As for hate, it is hate which is in your heart, and that which comes out of you is therefore hate. And that is no accusation, but my witness according to the words of Christ regarding the heart.

How is praying for someone to be saved hate? Please answer this question. This is not hate, that is love, and is as we were called to do. Your accusation is that I hate, which I repeatedly state I do not, proven by my statement that I pray Trump becomes saved by Jesus Christ. Therefore, your false accusation, once again, proves that you have hate towards me - a fellow believer in Jesus Christ.

 

[4Jesus]

I will not apologize for noting your non-biblical and hateful schemes. Your line from the start has been hatred, not prayer.

Now I'm a schemer? I'm a calculating hateful person, because I don't believe Trump is a Christian based upon the man's own words?

Is it hate to have prayed for him to be saved? That is not hate.

It would have been better if you said you hated him. Instead, it was what was in your heart that has revealed you.

You really like telling people what to do or what they think or what they feel, don't you.

I won't say I hate him because I don't hate him. That is a false accusation from you. You are clinging to this false belief that I hate him.

I have made no false accusations, I have only called you on the hatred that you have spewed from the heart. Otherwise, I would not know you or what you pray or praise God for...just what comes out from you..

You have, when you state, repeatedly, that I hate someone who I don't hate. That is a false accusation.

As for feelings, thoughts, or accusations, you're being to kind to yourself: yours are obviously accusations based on your feelings.

And now another insult from you: my "accusation" is based upon Trump's own words, not my feelings. You are falsely accusing me now of being feeling based instead of the actual logic base by which I formed this opinion.

You are showing your hatred of me now Scott, a confessed believer in Jesus Christ.

 

[4Jesus]

Oh mercy ...that is the kind of propaganda that keeps getting put out there by various social media outlets looking for anything they can twist and pervert in order to justify their hatred towards him. It gets so ridiculous at times that it is humorous.

No response to the following post?

It's not propoganda from his opponents though, it's propaganda from his administration. Definition of propaganda:

• The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
• n.
  Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause.
  
  In this case, it's propaganda from his administration, not "social media outlets looking for anything they can twist and pervert in order to justify their hatred towards him" nor the second definition above ("opponents of a doctrine or cause"), it's Trump who did this! Quoting that article I posted above "The Trump administration on Monday released its "trip coin" to commemorate the impending summit between President Donald Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong Un."
  
  And I agree that it is humorous that what you are attributing to Trump's opponents is actually Trump doing what you don't like.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And also the beast/antichrist, per the book of Revelation. God will also raise up the beast, should that mean Christians are to follow him and support him? Should Christians then take the mark of the beast because God raised up the beast?

This is no different than God raising up a man who stated he never asked God for forgiveness, and obviously can't lead.

Yeah about that....I just did a fact check on that statement....during his campaign he was interviewed by a CNN reporter who questioned him about his faith...2 different occasions in the interview he addressed it....one time he said he doesn't ask God for forgiveness.....next he said I hope I don't have to ask God often for forgiveness.
Months later Ben Carson said Trump asked for prayer and for forgiveness.

Carson: Trump prayed for forgiveness before the debate

I really urge everyone to pray about what they have in their heart towards Trump. Pray for his salvation and growth spiritually.
The fervent prayers of a righteous man availeth much.
According to many he receives prayer every morning. God is a good God and He desires that all shall come to know Him. Even Donald Trump.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No response to the following post?

Yeah it was like a blah blah blah...you trying to define propaganda and fit it into some neatly articulated bunch of meaningless nothing that neither gives strength nor basis for what my post was about.
It gave me a headache trying to read it because there is no flow to it and it has a lot of loose points never coming together as a complete thought but rather many thoughts.

Were you trying to define propaganda...
Were you trying to determine the propaganda from the administration fits the definition and not the media's propaganda? That would mean there has to be another definition for propaganda.
Then you claim the propaganda put forth by the media was not put forth by the media it was Trump.
Then the coin trip coin..
You just included too many different topics all in a jumbled paragraph of copied and paste lines from my post.

And let me add I am messing with you a bit

 

[4Jesus]

Yeah about that....I just did a fact check on that statement....during his campaign he was interviewed by a CNN reporter who questioned him about his faith...2 different occasions in the interview he addressed it....one time he said he doesn't ask God for forgiveness.....next he said I hope I don't have to ask God often for forgiveness.
Months later Ben Carson said Trump asked for prayer and for forgiveness.

Carson: Trump prayed for forgiveness before the debate

I really urge everyone to pray about what they have in their heart towards Trump. Pray for his salvation and growth spiritually.
The fervent prayers of a righteous man availeth much.
According to many he receives prayer every morning. God is a good God and He desires that all shall come to know Him. Even Donald Trump.

I have no reason to doubt Ben Carson claiming that Trump asked God for forgiveness. I don't question him that he's lying about Trump praying for forgiveness. Therefore, I retract my opinion on Trump not being a Christian based upon Trump not asking God for forgiveness for his sins.

Good job on finding the Carson interview Heart2Soul; I appreciate the effort.

 

[4Jesus]

Yeah it was like a blah blah blah...you trying to define propaganda and fit it into some neatly articulated bunch of meaningless nothing that neither gives strength nor basis for what my post was about.
It gave me a headache trying to read it because there is no flow to it and it has a lot of loose points never coming together as a complete thought but rather many thoughts.

Were you trying to define propaganda...
Were you trying to determine the propaganda from the administration fits the definition and not the media's propaganda? That would mean there has to be another definition for propaganda.
Then you claim the propaganda put forth by the media was not put forth by the media it was Trump.
Then the coin trip coin..
You just included too many different topics all in a jumbled paragraph of copied and paste lines from my post.

I copied the definition of propaganda from an online dictionary - and you think I was trying to define it, that's false.

Three paragraphs gave you a headache? No flow: I pasted the definition of propaganda, pointed out that it was Trump's admin who released it contrary to your view that his opponents did, then made a brief statement regarding the humor of hypocrisy. That's "no flow" to you?

The point was that the administration released a coin that you thought his opponents released, and you didn't agree with what they did when you thought it was his opponents who released the coin.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I copied the definition of propaganda from an online dictionary - and you think I was trying to define it, that's false.

Three paragraphs gave you a headache? No flow: I pasted the definition of propaganda, pointed out that it was Trump's admin who released it contrary to your view that his opponents did, then made a brief statement regarding the humor of hypocrisy. That's "no flow" to you?

The point was that the administration released a coin that you thought his opponents released, and you didn't agree with what they did when you thought it was his opponents who released the coin.

Oh you must have me confused with someone else I don't remember saying anything about the coin.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I copied the definition of propaganda from an online dictionary - and you think I was trying to define it, that's false.

Three paragraphs gave you a headache? No flow: I pasted the definition of propaganda, pointed out that it was Trump's admin who released it contrary to your view that his opponents did, then made a brief statement regarding the humor of hypocrisy. That's "no flow" to you?

The point was that the administration released a coin that you thought his opponents released, and you didn't agree with what they did when you thought it was his opponents who released the coin.

Oh and this is so much easier..to read and conclude what you are saying.
My reply was in fun if you saw the last line....

Okay I am tired talking about Trump....going to go study more Revelation.

 

[4Jesus]

Oh you must have me confused with someone else I don't remember saying anything about the coin.

Hmm, post #134 from you, regarding my post #132. Were you not talking about the release of the coin when talking about propaganda? My post in #132 was discussing the release of a coin commemorating Trump and Kim, and how Trump didn't bow to Kim physically, but acknowledged his "supreme leader" position.

I'm very sorry if you were not talking about the coin in post #134. Please accept my apology for the confusion.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hmm, post #134 from you, regarding my post #132. Were you not talking about the release of the coin when talking about propaganda? My post in #132 was discussing the release of a coin commemorating Trump and Kim, and how Trump didn't bow to Kim physically, but acknowledged his "supreme leader" position.

I'm very sorry if you were not talking about the coin in post #134. Please accept my apology for the confusion.

Ok went back and read it and I was referring to a number of people noticing how many chins Kim had on it....just cracked me up saying really?
As far as the coin it isn't an issue. I have a coin with Elvis Presley on it....

 

[4Jesus]

@ScottA @Willie T

Scott and Willie, Heart2Soul found video of Ben Carson stating he heard Trump ask for forgiveness from God, in post #190.

I retract my belief that Trump is not a Christian based upon Trump never asking God for forgiveness.

Thanks to Heart2Soul for finding the new information for me, and for us to utilize as a response to Trump not being a Christian solely based upon asking God for forgiveness.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@ScottA @Willie T

Scott and Willie, Heart2Soul found video of Ben Carson stating he heard Trump ask for forgiveness from God, in post #190.

I retract my belief that Trump is not a Christian based upon Trump never asking God for forgiveness.

Thanks to Heart2Soul for finding the new information for me, and for us to utilize as a response to Trump not being a Christian solely based upon asking God for forgiveness.

Now there you go again...do you work for CNN? I never said Trump is a Christian as according to doctrines of Christianity....I said he asked for forgiveness....then I asked everyone to PRAY FOR HIS SALVATION.
You will fit right in with CNN as a reporter of fake news!

 

[4Jesus]

Ok went back and read it and I was referring to a number of people noticing how many chins Kim had on it....just cracked me up saying really?
As far as the coin it isn't an issue. I have a coin with Elvis Presley on it....

Yeah, I agree with you on the double chin thing, that didn't make sense to include in the article (and I just picked one of the first articles that wrote that it was the admin who release the coin). My argument was more with the fact of the admin releasing the coin acknowledging Kim as "supreme leader"