IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHIN YOU ?

[shnarkle]

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
^different “righteousness” there one burned up and the other remains.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? [9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

With so much underlining, bold black, bold red, etc. it's hard to tell what you're trying to emphasize. I find it quite interesting that Paul explicitly points out that it was not the law that was done away with at all, but the glory upon Moses' face. Note that it was the face of Moses that was covered, not the stone tablets. People very rarely seem to be able to notice that fact.

 

[shnarkle]

I am not making any assertions in regard to the translations only the misunderstanding of the verse that exists

What's the difference? Isn't it the translations that are the problem? Aren't you suggesting that the correct translation is "in the midst" rather than 'within'?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You're no different than someone who isn't circumcised. You might as well be a degenerate uncircumcised pagan if you're not going to keep the law.

You are right as circumcision in the flesh doesn’t apply since I’m female. Unless I covert to Islam where the female is circumcised as well. Pretty young, I think.

We have one father in heaven, why honor your biological father?

Don’t know...never knew my biological father. He died a couple of years before I found out his name.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise[3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Children, obey your parents. Whose the parents? Do you think it is more profitable to Honour your Father in Heaven and the Mother of us all New Jerusalem or the other? Which comes with promise that it may be well with thee and thou may live long on the earth? How old was Christ when crucified? Yet His Life continues to multiply and increase.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

To men looking from the outside in what shame would Mary have endured in the crucifixion of her son which was called a drunk, a blasphemer, and a thief. He honored God the Father First. Mark 3:32-35 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. [33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? [34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

That made Him perfect...not His biological father but obeying God the Father. About the rest of the nonsense of do I live in a house ...He said to use these things as “temporary” and of those things which are temporary makes no one perfect including circumcision in the flesh made by men. (All that done away with in Christ)

 

[farouk]

Uh the bread is his word..that's why he says we should not live on bread alone. We should dwell in the word everyday and not just wake up and not give God our time..that's what he meant..not to just go on about our day..but to give thought to God and to always read the Bible. Put him first above all things ..spend time with him and at least read the word before going about our day..that's why he said eat my flesh and drink his blood because his body is made up of the holy spirit and the word. And none of Jesus word is literal..all his words are spiritual and divine...Jesus wasn't born of a natural birth like us..he was born of God and one of an immaculate birth and the spirit...the spirit and water which makes his flesh holy...and blood pure..bread is just another word he uses to describe the word which is his body also so it's like he is saying we should not just eat or worry about the cares of our life but to give him our time in our life too...

Some ppl see the Lord's Supper in John 6, but I don't...

 

[Jennifer]

Yep. Right there in black and white; plain as day.

Great idea. Here it is again for your edification:

You're no different than someone who isn't circumcised. You might as well be a degenerate uncircumcised pagan if you're not going to keep the law.

True, except for the fact that the law of circumcision is one of the commandments.

The circumcision of Christ is what allows or enables one to keep God's commandments, including the commandment of circumcision.

Christ is the groom, and the church is his body. By your logic, why seek another spouse when you're already married to Christ? We have one father in heaven, why honor your biological father? Christ is our fortress, why bother building a home to live in when we have Christ? Are you familiar with the laws that command one to build a house that is safe to inhabit? By your logic, those are done away in Christ because "in him we live and move and have our being". Do you live in a house? If so, then by your logic, it can only be for the praise of men.

Strawman argument. Look at the argument again. Paul is addressing those who believe one is justified by the works of the law, in this case circumcision. His response is the same regardless of what law is in view. Look at what he says: "13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." The law says to perform circumcision.
They are boasting in their adherence to the law when they don't keep it themselves. "23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?"
Yep! There is no point in boasting of keeping the law when one is breaking it.

Yep, and the righteousness of the law is in those how carry it out, as he says, "the doers of the law shall be justified"

Yep. Quite true! Notice that he distinguishes between those who keep God's laws and those who don't. Which are the righteous?

Of course. I agree completely, but this doesn't mean the law is then left unfulfilled. Again, 'the doers of the law are justified'.

This doesn't negate Paul's point. Paul's point stands on its own. He's pointing out that those who keep the law benefit from keeping the law, including the law to circumcise. Why else would Paul take Timothy to be circumcised???

Being circumcised or circumcising your son doesn't establish one's own righteousness. Strawman argument.

No. That is your assumption. That only applies to those who are actually seeking to establish their righteousness by keeping the law. Those who are born again, do not seek their own righteousness by keeping the law. Their righteousness is established in, with, and through Christ, therefore they keep the law because of the righteousness of Christ. There is no sin in Christ. You're conflating keeping the law to establish one's own righteousness with those who fulfill the law because they are established by faith in Christ. One can keep the law without love, but one cannot love without keeping the law. Learn the difference, and you should see what Paul is actually saying.

Sure, but it doesn't stop with circumcision. There is no giving or taking in marriage in the kingdom either, but you don't see Christians refraining from marrying, do you? If Paul was being told that members of his church needed to marry to establish their righteousness, he would have argued the same way by pointing out that no one who marries is justified. Marrying does not establish one's righteousness. Would you then conclude that Christians are not to marry anymore? Would you then conclude that he is condoning fornication? Of course not. It's a non sequitur.
Notice that he also points out that anyone who is circumcised is bound to keep the whole law, and those who don't are lost because they are doing it to establish their righteousness. There are plenty of people today that were circumcised just after they were born because it was a standard procedure in hospitals years ago. They're obviously bound by the law, right? It doesn't matter what they believe, or why they were circumcised because if we pluck Paul's writings out of context like you're doing, they're all damned.


What God has joined together in the heart is of the Spirit, therefore there is no need to mingle the letter and actually follow through with a marriage ceremony. This is only for the praise of men, right?

This is your assertion, and it is baseless. Paul took Timothy, and had him circumcised.

Read it again. He's explicitly referring to the sacrificial system which was explicitly instituted to deal with those who VIOLATE the law. He lays down his life as a sacrifice for sin, not for those who keep God's commandments. There is all the difference in the world here. You're conflating the commandments that God gave for a holy, sanctified people, and the "law that was added because of transgressions",i.e. the sacrificial system. The sacrificial system points to Christ's sacrifice. The commandment of marriage points to the marriage between Christ and his bride, the church. See the difference?

Why add a marriage ceremony between a man and a woman when this will add the praise of men to the praise of God? Do you covet the things of God or the things of men? Do you have possessions that can be coveted by men, or by God?

Can you say, "double standard"?

But whether one marries or not, at the end of the day since God said "Man shall not be alone" by taking out Adams rib and creating the woman Eve for Adam (the old covenant), if two people are meant to be together God will place them on paths where they will meet one another to be together...you may not believe in soul mates but I believe if there's a compatibility somewhere on this planet, soul mates have every right to reconnect to one another...it's God who puts things together, not people....

 

[farouk]

But whether one marries or not, at the end of the day since God said "Man shall not be alone" by taking out Adams rib and creating the woman Eve for Adam (the old covenant), if two people are meant to be together God will place them on paths where they will meet one another to be together...you may not believe in soul mates but I believe if there's a compatibility somewhere on this planet, soul mates have every right to reconnect to one another...it's God who puts things together, not people....

Marriage in the Lord is important also...

 

[farouk]

But whether one marries or not, at the end of the day since God said "Man shall not be alone" by taking out Adams rib and creating the woman Eve for Adam (the old covenant), if two people are meant to be together God will place them on paths where they will meet one another to be together...you may not believe in soul mates but I believe if there's a compatibility somewhere on this planet, soul mates have every right to reconnect to one another...it's God who puts things together, not people....

Marriage in the Lord is important also...

 

[Jennifer]

Marriage in the Lord is important also...

Who is getting married though? Why is this even a subject in this thread?

 

[shnarkle]

circumcision in the flesh doesn’t apply since I’m female.

No. Circumcision doesn't apply because you are advocating lawlessness. You are explicitly claiming that the law is inapplicable because one is operating on a spiritual level. This is patently false as the spirit does not lead one to sin or transgress any of God's commandments.

shnarkle said: ↑
"We have one father in heaven, why honor your biological father?"
Don’t know...never knew my biological father. He died a couple of years before I found out his name.

We have one father in heaven, why should anyone honor their biological father? By your logic, they shouldn't.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise[3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

And has already been pointed out by Paul himself, circumcision if beneficial if one keep God's commandments. You deny that, and I have just pointed out that by your logic, you are attempting to justify your behavior by honoring your parents. You needn't quote Paul as he also knows that the covenant itself promises blessings to anyone who keeps God commandments, and curses to those who don't. You aren't advancing your argument.

Children, obey your parents. Whose the parents? Do you think it is more profitable to Honour your Father in Heaven and the Mother of us all New Jerusalem or the other? Which comes with promise that it may be well with thee and thou may live long on the earth? How old was Christ when crucified? Yet His Life continues to multiply and increase.

You're back peddling now. You aren't addressing my point.

"Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
To men looking from the outside in what shame would Mary have endured in the crucifixion of her son which was called a drunk, a blasphemer, and a thief. He honored God the Father First. Mark 3:32-35 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. [33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? [34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
That made Him perfect...not His biological father but obeying God the Father.

I see. So you are advocating for dishonoring one's parents then? Fair enough. I see now that you're consistent in your argument.

About the rest of the nonsense of do I live in a house ...He said to use these things as “temporary”

Circumcision is temporary as well. So what? This is also irrelevant.

and of those things which are temporary makes no one perfect including circumcision in the flesh made by men. (All that done away with in Christ)

Again, you're ignoring my argument altogether. This is still a Strawman argument because I'm not suggesting that keeping the law makes anyone perfect to begin with. Getting married, refraining from fornication, lying, theft, murder, etc. does not justify anyone. Do you then believe that since keeping any of those laws will never make you perfect, they are done away with as well? Are Christians now free to sin with impunity? Can Christians now murder, steal, engage in deceit, fornication, etc. because they are no longer sinful? This is you argument. You have a double standard, and you aren't addressing that fact.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No. Circumcision doesn't apply because you are advocating lawlessness.

advocating the righteous fulfillment of the command as being the operation of God in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ ; which is enough and lacks nothing. And is not advocating lawlessness. <does this circumcision lack anything?

Advocating Honour The Father which is in heaven and the Mother of us all New Jerusalem...also is not lawlessness.

You are explicitly claiming that the law is inapplicable because one is operating on a spiritual level.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual...Galatians 6:13-16
For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. [14] But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. [16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

only change you offer there is circumcision of the putting off of the body of sins by the circumcision of Christ made without hands PLUS circumcision in the flesh ...whereby you accuse a sister as practicing lawlessness based off the second and not the First.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Getting married, refraining from fornication, lying, theft, murder, etc. does not justify anyone. Do you then believe that since keeping any of those laws will never make you perfect, they are done away with as well?

no but it seems man tends to glory in keeping “thou shall not murder” yet then turns right around and (slays)murders or wounds(fatally) a brother or sister spiritually thereby deceived there is no greater trespass than what is seen of men when God judges the Heart.

 

[Jennifer]

advocating the righteous fulfillment of the command as being the operation of God in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ is enough and lacks nothing ...is not lawlessness. <does this circumcision lack anything?

Advocating Honour The Father which is in heaven and the Mother of us all New Jerusalem...is not lawlessness.



Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual...Galatians 6:13-16
For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. [14] But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. [16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

only change you offer there is circumcision of the putting off of the body of sins by the circumcision of Christ made without hands PLUS circumcision in the flesh ...whereby you accuse a sister as practicing lawlessness based off the second and not the First.

You might want to read these scriptures. Ephesians 6:4 1 John 3:1 Proverbs 22:6. Matthew 19:14. Proverbs 23:13-14 Colossians 3:20. I hate when parents always think they have authority over thier kids just because they bought them in this world and always have to have thier say when it comes to thier children cause they are older etc. I think that's just an excuse to control a child and get away with it, but if you read those bible verses I put there above you will see it works both ways but what people probably don't think about is parents are God's children too and they are as much as responsible for thier actions as much as thier children. Parents may have a say about thier children for being the parent but the reality is in God's eyes we are all his children and we all must obey the Lord whether parent or child because he has full authority over everyone and everything on this earth....and of course if the parents has a bad influence, it will effect thier children also....so

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You might want to read these scriptures. Ephesians 6:4 1 John 3:1 Proverbs 22:6. Matthew 19:14. Proverbs 23:13-14 Colossians 3:20. I hate when parents always think they have authority over thier kids just because they bought them in this world and always have to have thier say when it comes to thier children cause they are older etc. I think that's just an excuse to control a child and get away with it, but if you read those bible verses I put there above you will see it works both ways but what people probably don't think about is parents are God's children too and they are as much as responsible for thier actions as much as thier children. Parents may have a say about thier children for being the parent but the reality is in God's eyes we are all his children and we all must obey the Lord whether parent or child because he has full authority over everyone and everything on this earth....and of course if the parents has a bad influence, it will effect thier children also....so

Good point. Correction received. Thank you. In reading on Ephesians 6:6-7 stands out “Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; [7] With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:” similar to Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Skimmed the other verses you recommended but will read them more intently later tonight.

 

[shnarkle]

advocating the righteous fulfillment of the command as being the operation of God in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ ; which is enough and lacks nothing. And is not advocating lawlessness. <does this circumcision lack anything?

Advocating Honour The Father which is in heaven and the Mother of us all New Jerusalem...also is not lawlessness.



Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual...Galatians 6:13-16
For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. [14] But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. [16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

only change you offer there is circumcision of the putting off of the body of sins by the circumcision of Christ made without hands PLUS circumcision in the flesh ...whereby you accuse a sister as practicing lawlessness based off the second and not the First.

Accusing one of attempting to justify their righteousness by fulfilling a commandment, and then pretending that keeping others is hypocrisy as well. This is EXACTLY what Paul is talking about. Yes, justifying violating God's commandments is lawlessness. Pretending that this is somehow operating by the Spirit is tantamount to blasphemy. The Spirit doesn't lead anyone to transgress God's law. The idea is ridiculous. Quoting scripture won't change that fact.

 

[shnarkle]

no but...

But nothing. Paul makes the exact same point in Romans. You want to talk about being led by the Spirit, and then Paul would make the same point by asking, "do you then keep the Sabbath?" "Do you borrow money at interest?"; "Do you eat garbage?" If you transgress any of God's laws, you transgress them all. Do you really want to boast of the Sprit, and then proceed to justify transgressing the laws that can only be kept by the Spirit? Paul can only say the same thing he says in Romans. There is no difference.

 

[Jennifer]

Good point. Correction received. Thank you. In reading on Ephesians 6:6-7 stands out “Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; [7] With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:” similar to Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Skimmed the other verses you recommended but will read them more intently later tonight.

Ok thanks..and sure youre welcome..

 

[farouk]

Who is getting married though? Why is this even a subject in this thread?

...dunno...

 

[farouk]

Good point. Correction received. Thank you. In reading on Ephesians 6:6-7 stands out “Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; [7] With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:” similar to Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Skimmed the other verses you recommended but will read them more intently later tonight.

Great verses there; in the end the believer's service must be Godward...

 

[farouk]

You are right as circumcision in the flesh doesn’t apply since I’m female.

Paul also uses the term 'the circumcision' as a reference to Jewish people generally, and by extension the doctrine of law-keeping.

 

[Jennifer]

Some ppl see the Lord's Supper in John 6, but I don't...

Huh? Thats odd. LOL but hey look at the scriptures here. They seem more likely to describe the last supper then the one you posted in that quote. Luke 22:19 1 Corinthians 11:23-25 then this one, but isn't it eerily unique this famous last supper picture below seems more like the wedding feast then the other two above? ha. Matthew 19:28you know what that looks like, if you read Matthew 19:28 Revelation 19:7, it looks like Jesus and his disciples with "the disciple Jesus loved" which could be his " bride" cause look on the right side of him, there's a woman ..lol