Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[Waiting on him]

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

I’m convinced.

 

[Waiting on him]

Looks like you have never heard of the battle of Armageddon or seen any of the Psalms which speak of this matter. So this is not *vain imagination* as you vainly assumed, but Bible truth.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

What would you consider hard speeches to be?

 

[Ezra]

What would you consider hard speeches to be?

Geneva Study Bible

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

[brakelite]

The problem with this attitude is that under this view no one can view all as bearing the image of God, you can only insulate yourself from those ready to hear the truth, because you esteem yourself better than others “more deserving” as for the statement when all is said and done.... “ it is finished”

This is wrong on several levels. The image of God in man does not equate with salvation. And after the fall, many bore the image of fallen man...
KJV Genesis 5
Geneology of the Patriarchs
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

In order to bear the image of God again, we need to be born again... To be infused by the spirit of God becoming a sanctuary that God may once again tabernacle with men.
Romans 8 speaks clearly of two camps... The one being carnal, fleshly, not born again of the spirit of God, and not being transformed into new creatures who cannot see nor enter the kingdom for they cannot please God, they cannot obey God, for they beat the image of their father the devil, not Christ. The other camp have been born again, they are new creatures, they by grace through faith have accepted the gospel and are saved, not by anything they have done or earned, but through what Christ has done at Calvary.

I esteem myself "better than others"??? I didn't realise you knew me well enough to make such a call. But you are correct, but only through what God has accomplished in me. Without Him I am nothing. He had released me from addictions, and sick attitudes. (The old meaning of'sick') That does not mean I now deserve salvation as if I have earned it. I have it as a gift no more nor less that anyone else. But the truth is that I, by my rebellious past, in fact deserve death and destruction. It is sad that despite all that God has done for them, many will refuse to come to the marriage. Even in the church, of Jesus came tomorrow a great many of the bridal party will be found asleep and be locked out.

And after the judgement, which is in effect a celestial court case in which we act as witnesses and in a sense jury, the lost shall finally understand their true predicament... That all along God had been working in their lives for good but they choose to remain ignorant of His goodness and grace toward them, choosing the lists and pleasures of this world instead. They will realise that God was loving.. Merciful... Gracious... Full of goodness and truth all along and they have no one to blame but themselves for not being left out in the darkness... And they, even they shall fall to their knees confessing Christ as Lord, along with Satan and his angels, but to late.

 

[brakelite]

Hi brakelite, this part

So many perspectives , all based on personal opinions as to the character of God.
God is all loving and kind... All shall be saved.
God is loving but only for the saved... So many shall be lost.
God is austere and judgemental... so most will be lost.

Allow me if I may to try and offer some balance, based not on opinion, but on scripture

Okay, but opinion based on observation. And since this thread has started, we have seen the full gamut of the above... Which is why I thought a balance was needed

 

[brakelite]

Who are these people?

KJV Revelation 20
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

KJV Revelation 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever....
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:13,14
Since it is impossible for God, consistently with His justice and mercy, to save the sinner in his sins, He deprives him of the existence which his transgressions have forfeited and of which he has proved himself unworthy. Says an inspired writer: "Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." And another declares: "They shall be as though they had not been." Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion... Thus will be made an end of sin, with all the woe and ruin which have resulted from it. {GC 544}

 

[Waiting on him]

Geneva Study Bible

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Ok as I said, I’m convinced, now what do their hard speeches consist of?

 

[Waiting on him]

They will realise that God was loving.. Merciful... Gracious... Full of goodness and truth all along and they have no one to blame but themselves for not being left out in the darkness..

What they will realize is not that He was merciful, rather He is merciful..... full of mercy.
The hard condemning speeches I continue to hear are definitely not speeches of mercy rather speeches of condemnation, as if they have no concept of grace.
Was merciful? Lol this was not a one time occurrence 2000 years ago. What He has displayed is who He truly is, and it’s not gonna change.
What you all speaking is your character and your nature lacking mercy and forgiveness.

 

[Waiting on him]

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Amazingly this is referenced as pertaining to this theology where a loving father sends too Hell

This scripture is directed specifically at me, and all those whom He may convince.

But the unrepentant reprobate heart has proclaimed this can’t be me?

 

[reformed1689]

I'd like to see some scriptures here from the people who say repeatedly that God's Love will never overtake His Justice.
From the NT please.

You realize the God in the OT is the same one in the NT right?

 

[Helen]

explain what you mean? are you saying Universalism is real ? not understanding what you mean..

What I asked was simple...people have more than once in this thread ( forgotten who, and I don't want to re-read the whole thread looking for the quotes)

They have said...and maybe you did too...and not only in this thread , but from time to time.. " God's love will never be greater than His justice ."

I do not yet see it all as clearly as you and others seem to see.

Yes I agree, God is Holy, He is Just, and angry with sin, He hates it...
But He is also Merciful, Forgiving and God is Love.

So how can anyone claim that His Justice is stronger than His Love?
I asked for NT verses where these people pull that belief from , that's all.

I've often wondered how God can demand love from us for our enemies ..., and forgiveness from us...etc...yet you all say that He will not do the same re love and forgiveness.

That is what I was saying...explained as well as I can.

I also wonder why it is that whenever 'the restoration of all things' is mention people get so angry in their posts against it... I have hardly met anyone who will just 'discuss' it calmly.
Thats all.

 

[Harvest 1874]

do what ? the next lifetime? care to show scripture ..umm if your saved your on your way to heaven .scripture once again to back this up

I would suggest you do a little more study on the issue, the following blog posts might help shed some light:

The Day of Salvation

The Two Salvation's

Two Phases of the Kingdom

 

[Helen]

You realize the God in the OT is the same one in the NT right?

I'm not stupid ...

God spoke Good News in the NT - "Peace on earth goodwill to all men".
Its called the New Covenant because it is just that..a NEW covenant through Jesus Christ His Son.

People say- as I mentioned in my previous post.. " " God's love will never be greater than His justice ."

All I did was ask for a verse in the NT to back this up...
I notice that you ignored that part of my post.

1 Pet " Above all, love each other deeply because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Will God command that of us, but not have it as His own standard?

 

[reformed1689]

I'm not stupid ...

God spoke Good News in the NT - "Peace on earth goodwill to all men".
Its called the New Covenant because it is just that..a NEW covenant through Jesus Christ His Son.

People say- as I mentioned in my previous post.. " " God's love will never be greater than His justice ."

All I did was ask for a verse in the NT to back this up...
I notice that you ignored that part of my post.

1 Pet " Above all, love each other deeply because love covers over a multitude of sins."

Will God command that of us, but not have it as His own standard?

I pretty much dismiss anyone who thinks that the doctrines we believe must come out of the NT.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I pretty much dismiss anyone who thinks that the doctrines we believe must come out of the NT.

...

 

[Enoch111]

What would you consider hard speeches to be?

Blasphemy against Christ and God. Cursing Christ and God.

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come... (Rev 11:18)

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5)

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. (Rev 16:9)

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. (Rev 16:11)

And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Rev 16:21)

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. [the battle of Armageddon] (Rev 16:14)

 

[Helen]

I pretty much dismiss anyone who thinks that the doctrines we believe must come out of the NT.

What!! Sound doctrine does not come via the OT.

... how about giving me ANY scripture verse that states that God's Justice over rules all His other attributes...I'm waiting...
So many of you keep on quoting that , as if it is a scripture verse....

 

[Enoch111]

I pretty much dismiss anyone who thinks that the doctrines we believe must come out of the NT.

Well, since the Old Covenant is null and void, where do you think Christian doctrines come from -- where do you think the doctrine of Christ comes from, except from the NT? So we should dismiss your false conclusion.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42)

The apostles' doctrine came directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only did He open all the OT Scriptures to them after His resurrection, but He taught them for 40 days after that. Plus Paul received his doctrines directly from Christ after his conversion.

 

[Helen]

Well, since the Old Covenant is null and void, where do you think Christian doctrines come from -- where do you think the doctrine of Christ comes from, except from the NT? So we should dismiss your false conclusion.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42)

The apostles' doctrine came directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only did He open all the OT Scriptures to them after His resurrection, but He taught them for 40 days after that. Plus Paul received his doctrines directly from Christ after his conversion.

Well said...better than I could...

 

[Giuliano]

You realize the God in the OT is the same one in the NT right?

The Old Testament is hard to understand in some places. Some people might even conclude that God and Satan are the same person.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

So who did it? Did God or Satan tempt David? Do you know? If God did it, why does the New Testament say God doesn't tempt anyone?

Naive people may assume God tried to kill Moses but failed!

Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.

Still others may think God has a vision problem and needs spectacles.

Genesis 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Ha, ha. When the Bible says "the LORD," sometimes it can be very hard to know what is meant. There are explanations for these passages; but we need to admit they are difficult.