Who is Jesus?

[amadeus]

You may recall that Jesus also asked the very same question you asked at the beginning of this thread. It would seem @bbyrd009 that you don't agree with the apostle, or the revealing Father, regarding the following...
KJV Matthew 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Here we have Peter, the holy Spirit, the Father, and Jesus all in agreement that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Yet you seem determined to make Jesus and Christ separate individuals. You accept that there are certainly fake Christ's, and agreed with my post on fake Jesus... But seem totally reluctant to accept that there is a real Jesus. You seem to be one of those I described as saying the real Jesus is spiritually still here (not quite sure what you mean by that word 'spiritually', not that I necessarily disagree with you) but you also refuse to accept the testimony of anyone claiming to know that spiritual Jesus unless that incorporate some sense of doubt in and loathing for their own words.
Yet Jesus Himself, and the scriptures generally, testify that we can indeed know the real Jesus, and what's more be confident in that knowledge. Now while we may not know Him fully (who can ever fully know and understand Infinity and perfection) what we do know of a certainty are those things which He has revealed, particularly in regards His character and love for us as individuals and as a community of believers.

It may be easier to accept that there are fake Christs/Jesus than to accept the reality of Him. Does not the reality needed to revealed to a person by God before it is accepted as reality? Many people probably jump on someone else's band wagon because they see so little themselves or know so little themselves. Perhaps some or even many of them have never really had a revelation... even after years of attending a church.

We can as you say know Jesus but how hard is that to do? If we are very good at surrendering, probably not so hard at all.

You say what we do know of a certainty is what He has revealed. I agree with that but has He revealed the same things to you as He has to me or to some other guy, such as @bbyrd009 ? This is a problem with people simply pointing at a Bible and saying, "there it is!" Some people apparently have no revelation at all. Isn't that where you would want to place people who are simply unbelievers? From having nothing to having everything may be a way placing everyone even if we cannot actually determine their place on such a scale.

Who is at the top of the scale but God Himself who has/knows everything? Believers are likely are located from somewhere all the way to the bottom where with nothing we would find unbelievers. Of the three of us, you and I and @bbyrd009 none of us are at the top and none of us are at the bottom. Without the eyes to see about which Jesus spoke how can we know where one person is in comparison even to... myself?

All of us see something or likely we would not bother to be here and even discuss such a thing as "Who is Jesus"? As I said some people are simply [at least in part] on someone else's band wagon. This may not a completely evil thing for God did give us people to help [ministers] but we have to remember that the helpers also at times lose their way... even if for only a moment. Of course there are also false ministers.

KJV John 17
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We can read the words, but how do we really come to know Him?

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matt 11:27

So then it is through the Son, but how do we know the Son? How do we know Jesus?

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

So then the Son reveals the Father to us and the Father draws us to the Son! How does one qualify or get chosen to receive the revelation or to be drawn?

How about simply asking? Does that work? Jesus told the people to ask in Matt 7:7, but as we know some people ask amiss and do not receive. What is the problem? Some people also don't trust James on some things, so why trust him on this?

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

When a person has met Jesus then how does he stay with Him except by the increasing/growing of Him in us while the old man of us decreases?

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

KJV 1 John 1
John's Reason for Writing
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

John saw it, but what have we seen? From all the different viewpoints on Trinity versus Oneness on this forum alone apparently not everyone is seeing the same things! Our vision is important. Consider that Jesus spit on some dirt making mud in his hands and applied it to the eyes of a blind man and the blind was then able to see. People might frown on the spit part, but considering who Jesus was/is and that spit essentially is water look then to His meeting with the Samaritan woman to whom He spoke about Living Water He had to offer.

KJV 1 John 2
To Know God Is to Obey
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

KJV 1 John 5
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[amadeus]

Jesus is Gods Word, in human form.
Everything God utters and speaks forth is Jesus. When you write down words, they are the concepts that come out ones mind and take shape on the page or screen. They exist separate from the writer, but they are an expression of who the writer is and have an intention and meaning.
John the gospel writer says this is Jesus.

The Word became flesh [John 1:14] and we are to eat that Flesh [John 6:53]! Then when we eat of it and within us it is quickened by the Holy Spirit [II Cor 3:6] it builds/nourishes the 'new man' of us, if we have one. So what does it take for us to become like Him?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[bbyrd009]

You are right, that there is an aspect you could argue God is bloodthirsty.

ok, ty. I would argue not myself

 

[historyb]

Who is Jesus?

He is the Christ, Son of the Living God

 

[bbyrd009]

He is the Christ, Son of the Living God

as many as do the will of Yah, they are the sons of Yah

may as well be saying "Meet John Doe" imo...

 

[mjrhealth]

as many as do the will of Yah, they are the sons of Yah

He was the first of many, dont you want to be counted amongst them. I simply cannot comprehend your resistance...

 

[bbyrd009]

He was the first of many, dont you want to be counted amongst them. I simply cannot comprehend your resistance...

sorry, resistance to what?

 

[mjrhealth]

anything.. I really have no idea why you are here or what it is you are looking for, or wheter it is just to toy around with every one. entertaining at times, but not much else. So in teh end

Why are you here???

 

[bbyrd009]

anything.. I really have no idea why you are here or what it is you are looking for, or wheter it is just to toy around with every one. entertaining at times, but not much else. So in teh end

Why are you here???

sorry, i thought that was plain, to suggest that the Jesus we are taught is not the Jesus we maybe need to end up with. If i am objecting to anything, it would be the lack of naive dialectic in most replies; all the "i know this for sure" jazz...

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus maybe did not die for our sins as a sacrifice to appease a capricious and bloodthirsty God, as it turns out

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus maybe did not die for our sins as a sacrifice to appease a capricious and bloodthirsty God, as it turns out

No He did it for a bloodthirsty devil and us.

 

[brakelite]

certainly
gotta be an AT right, beliefs just arent good enough are they lol

my current best guess

what do you believe these say then?

All these conundrums you present are answered when you personally discover the answer to your very first question... Who is Jesus?
Yes, I can be absolute in my assertion that Jesus is human. He even called Himself the Son of man. So yes, certainly human. He said so. But the Father also testified several times that Jesus was the Son of God. So what do we mean by that? What do we do with God's own testimony? Is He like some mythical demi god , son of Zeus, half human half God? A composite blend of the divine with the human? Because this concept, the idea that Jesus is in fact divine, is the very one you seem to baulk at. There, right there is your issue, and your continual casting of doubt upon Christian belief regarding the person of Christ.
Therefore, I need to ask you what you make of this.... Because here is where you find your answers to all the above... How could a man take away sin... How can people worship a man and not blaspheme or be idolatrous...
KJV Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

KJV John 17
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Taken]

you are kidding right, there is plenty of it, its everywhere ok. What you have told me here is that it is more or less as pointless Quoting them

No.

Apollos is even mentioned by name a couple times?

So? Your implication and my disagreement was you making Jesus and Apollo one in the Same.

so no offense but you are def a Mithraist,

What is a Mithrist?

I was too,

You WAS a Mithrist? What happened, did you get a bad sunburn? Or maybe sick from meeting in damp caves?

only this wont be heard they way i mean it,

?

i mean Yah still loves you,

Gods love has nothing to do with you making false claims for me.

even if you believe Jesus (Apollos) is going to Return

Don't confuse your belief with mine.

It is you claiming Jesus is some man named Apollos<--- not me.

or return just long enough to come take you somewhere,

It is you casting doubt on Jesus' return <-- not me.

It is you casting doubt on the Lords redemption and resurrection <-- not me.

doesnt matter what one believes about the future esp anyway, there is no judgement for beliefs?

Of course there is Judgement for what one does or does not believe.

but imo naturally if you believe Jesus is literally about to Return, your actions in and even connection with Today will be altered, right

My Whole Life, perspective, actions Were altered long ago....and precisely WHY I am not "subject to" the Lords Great Tribulation...and LIKE Noah who was raised Above the Face of the Earth during the Tribulation of the Flood, so ALSO shall I be RAISED Above the Face of the Earth during the Lord Gods Great Tribulaton.

If you ARE subject to Gods Wrath then you will get to remain on Earth and experience Gods Great Tribulation Like many did during the Great Flood.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

bbyrd009 "Jesus maybe did not die for our sins as a sacrifice to appease a capricious and bloodthirsty God, as it turns out
No He did it for a bloodthirsty devil and us."

No He did it for a bloodthirsty devil and us.

BLOOD - is the NATURAL "LIFE" of a human.

The Devil "Seeks" a mans Life.
The Devil is prowling and conniving men TO "give" their LIFE To him, by and through:
1) rejection of God
2) marked allegiance to him.

God "Requires" the LIFE (BLOOD) of man.
God WILL take... KILL...your natural Blood Life,
Whether or not "You" "give" your life To God.

Every man WHO "Gives" their LIFE to God...
God WILL "Give" the man A New Life...a spiritual life, (without blood), that can Never Die.

There is a battle going on over men...between good and evil.

The Good News is: A man does Not have to become physically Dead, to become (MADE by the Power of God)...Spiritually Alive....and SEALED unto God. <---and no longer available for the Devil to claim or take.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

All these conundrums you present are answered when you personally discover the answer to your very first question... Who is Jesus?
Yes, I can be absolute in my assertion that Jesus is human. He even called Himself the Son of man. So yes, certainly human. He said so. But the Father also testified several times that Jesus was the Son of God. So what do we mean by that? What do we do with God's own testimony? Is He like some mythical demi god , son of Zeus, half human half God? A composite blend of the divine with the human? Because this concept, the idea that Jesus is in fact divine, is the very one you seem to baulk at. There, right there is your issue, and your continual casting of doubt upon Christian belief regarding the person of Christ.
Therefore, I need to ask you what you make of this.... Because here is where you find your answers to all the above... How could a man take away sin... How can people worship a man and not blaspheme or be idolatrous...
KJV Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

KJV John 17
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I would add..
Have you ever in your life dreamed up a completely original idea? Seriously. Had Hollywood ever dreamed up am original idea for any movie? An original scenario for a theme? An original 'alien' creature? No. All are mere copies of what has gone before. There is nothing new under the sun.
Same with Greek mythology. Those stories of the gods having children and fighting wars and creating worlds... None of it original. Devil inspired absolutely, but even he didn't dream up the idea from scratch. No, the original was the Truth. Everything else is distraction... Obfuscation... Myth and fable designed to make the original appear as fake as the rest. Hollywood is continuing the habit. And unfortunately, it seems you've fallen for the idea... Thinking the Greek myths were the original and Jesus, the Son of God, a mere copy. Nuh.
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. In every way you could possibly imagine. And without Me ye can do nothing.

 

[bbyrd009]

No He did it for a bloodthirsty devil and us.

might even be the same

 

[bbyrd009]

All these conundrums you present are answered when you personally discover the answer to your very first question... Who is Jesus?
Yes, I can be absolute in my assertion that Jesus is human. He even called Himself the Son of man. So yes, certainly human. He said so. But the Father also testified several times that Jesus was the Son of God. So what do we mean by that? What do we do with God's own testimony? Is He like some mythical demi god , son of Zeus, half human half God? A composite blend of the divine with the human? Because this concept, the idea that Jesus is in fact divine, is the very one you seem to baulk at. There, right there is your issue, and your continual casting of doubt upon Christian belief regarding the person of Christ.
Therefore, I need to ask you what you make of this.... Because here is where you find your answers to all the above... How could a man take away sin... How can people worship a man and not blaspheme or be idolatrous...
KJV Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

KJV John 17
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

even greater things will you do
is what comes to mind here, for now...
i mean, should we worship you too, then?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is a Mithrist?

someone who believes Someone, Apollos, might literally come and take them to the Elysian Fields after they have literally died, basically. Developed into the Cult of Sol Invictus, to include women i guess. Ishtar (Oestre, Easter) will always be hanging around somewhere

You WAS a Mithrist?

you is a Mithraist
right now anyway

It is you casting doubt on Jesus' return

awesome, being as how you cannot Quote that anyway, that is what i had hoped i guess, yes. Christ is revealed, or "comes again," when we get eyes to "see" Him, but I will never leave you nor forsake you yeh

It is you casting doubt on the Lords redemption and resurrection

ah no, not doing that, bam follow Christ imo k

If you ARE subject to Gods Wrath then you will get to remain on Earth and experience Gods Great Tribulation Like many did during the Great Flood

but you will be miraculously "transported"...somewhere, huh?
go with that if you like, ok, but imo dont hold your breath. Yah Is now required to respect your person, and you have dug a pit for others to fall into it, yes?

 

[charity]

'If heaven never was promised to me,
it's been worth just having the Lord in my life,
Living in a world of darkness,
He brought me the light'.
Evie Tornquist Karlsson.

Hi @bbyrd009,

Paul was eager that his hearers should come into the full assurance of understanding (Colossians 2:2). That assurance is vital to our peace of mind and well-being as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, and comes via understanding. I say this because you appear to disparage those who speak with confidence concerning what they believe, as though there is no such thing as absolute truth.

I believe what is written in God's word, concerning the person and work of Christ, and declare what I believe is truth on the basis of it. What more can we do? What more can we say? ' Let God be true and every man a liar.'(Romans 3:4)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Taken]

someone who believes Someone, Apollos, might literally come and take them to the Elysian Fields after they have literally died, basically. Developed into the Cult of Sol Invictus, to include women i guess. Ishtar (Oestre, Easter) will always be hanging around somewhere

you is a Mithraist
right now anyway

No clue who Your Jesus Apollo Is.
Don't care. Not my declaration or belief.

No clue what your Elysian Fields Are.
Don't care. Not my declaration or belief.

And that would make you a false accuser and liar

awesome, being as how you cannot Quote that

What an ignorant comment.

anyway, that is what i had hoped i guess, yes.

Really? You were hoping I would Quote something I never stated, spoken by some Apollo guy I do not know, from his writings I have never read??

Get real..."Jesus Apollo" and "Elysian fields" is "your" claims, and teaching...not mine...You quote them.

Christ is revealed, or "comes again," when we get eyes to "see" Him, but I will never leave you nor forsake you yeh

And? What about that?

but you will be miraculously "transported"...somewhere, huh?

Nah, more specific "RAISED UP" from the Earth "TO the CLOUDS".

1Cor 6:
[14] And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us (me) by his own power.

1Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

go with that if you like, ok,

Gee thanks, but I don't Require your approval to Trust and Believe what Scripture says.

but imo dont hold your breath

Don't be silly. I shall continue to breath While I wait to be RAISED UP by the Power of God.

Glory to God,
Taken