The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[justbyfaith]

This bit gets me, if we are in a race, someone must win and someone must loose. I liked it first year in school everyone was rewarded no matter how they performed.

It is a different kind of race...we run it as if it were a competition and we want to win...but in the end all who finish get the prize.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is a different kind of race...we run it as if it were a competition and we want to win...but in the end all who finish get the prize.

Thats what gets me, it relies on "our performance", it is not a competition, God is no respecter of person, this makes it as if one is better than another, and we are all equal in the eyes of God.

God bless

 

[justbyfaith]

Thats what gets me, it relies on "our performance", it is not a competition, God is no respecter of person, this makes it as if one is better than another, and we are all equal in the eyes of God.

God bless

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Salvation is not dependent on our performance; but on simple faith in Christ's performance on our behalf.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul wrote that we are to run the race in such a way as to obtain the prize...which does not mean that the only way to obtain the prize is to be the first one to cross the finish line, excluding all others.

 

[mjrhealth]

Paul wrote that we are to run the race in such a way as to obtain the prize...which does not mean that the only way to obtain the prize is to be the first one to cross the finish line, excluding all others.

But than if it is all about prizes, than where are out hearts at. We should pursue Christ for who He is not for what we get.

 

[justbyfaith]

But than if it is all about prizes, than where are out hearts at. We should pursue Christ for who He is not for what we get.

Amen.

The scripture in question is in 1 Corinthians 9:24-26. Apply it as you see fit.

 

[Truther]

No its not

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

your still living in the past and wont let it go. Why is it you continually lay a stumbling block before men. How long before you let Gods grace work in His children.

Living in the past?

Let go of Acts 2:38?

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is a stumbling block?

Acts 2:38 is Grace..... do you think getting wet is too much effort?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I agree with this concerning Christ's Deity...

However, there are those who accept Christ's Deity but deny the Trinity...and while they may indeed be wrong, their error does not place them outside of the body of Christ.

They absolutely place them outside the Body of Christ.
When you deny the nature of God - you have invented a different god - and this is a direct violation of the First Commandment.

Already made a comment about this.

What you need to realize is that the parable of the sheep and the goats does not contradict the plain teaching of scripture that we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

Since faith is an obedient attitude...the works mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46 will be accomplished by those who truly have faith...but I will nevertheless hold to the doctrinally correct statement that they are not saved by those works but rather by the attitude that produces them. If someone has the kind of faith that produces these kinds of works; but dies two minutes after having obtained that faith: will they perish eternally in hell for the lack of the works actually being accomplished? They did no works but had a living and saving faith. Will they go to heaven or to hell in your estimation?

No - and I've already addressed this ad nauseam.

A person who dies 2 minutes after coming to faith yet never had a chance to be Baptized or do good works would be saved just like a lifelong obedient servant. Jesus taught this in several Parables such as the Parable of the Vineyard Workers (Matt. 20:1-16). This is what happened to the Thief on the cross. They are EXCEPTIONS to the rule.
YOUR problem is that you base your doctrines on the exception instead of the norm . . .

Works are never efficacious to save a man (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

That's NOT true - and the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats if proof.
You cherry-pick the Scriptures instead of taking them ALL in context.

The works that God Himself prepared for us in advance (Eph. 2:10) are efficacious because they are done for HIS glory, not ours.
Works that we do for own glory are worthless.

NO difference. Many priests in the Catholic Church have never been born again of the Holy Spirit and are not a part of Christ's true church.

This is am arrogant and spiritually prideful statement. YOU couldn't possibly know what is in a person's heart - OR if they were born again of the Holy Spirit.
Only GOD knows what is in the heart and the state of their soul.

Besides - there may be people of ALL Protestant sects that are in the SAME boat - including their leaders.

I am of His church whether you like it or not...for I believe in Jesus Christ and have been redeemed by His blood and am also born again of His Holy Spirit. (Any other definition for being in Christ's church strikes me as...superficial.)
Therefore He left me in charge...and you must adhere to my interpretation of the holy scriptures.

And therein lies the problem with ALL of Protestantism.

This is a perfect example of the mess you've made with your tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim they THEY are "in charge" and THEIR interpretation of Scripture is correct.

Thank you for that affirmation od the confuses mess that is Protestantism . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It is as easy as going into your bathtub and immersing yourself in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

If you come up out of the water calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, God will hear your cry.

If you do that but still have doubts, do your best to find a Oneness Pentecostal Church who will perform the sacrament for you.

Get this one done.

Once you have gotten it done, you will not regret it; and will never be the same.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then their security was never security to begin with.

If you have a problem with what I am saying - blame GOD - not me.
HE is the one who authored the Bible - and the Bible is where we get the information about this . . .

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your SECURE POSITION.

Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.
This is PRECISELY what I have been talking about.

You LOSE because you ignore the Word of God in favor of your OWN perverted doctrines . . .

 

[Truther]

They absolutely place them outside the Body of Christ.
When you deny the nature of God - you have invented a different god - and this is a direct violation of the First Commandment.

No - and I've already addressed this ad nauseam.

A person who dies 2 minutes after coming to faith yet never had a chance to be Baptized or do good works would be saved just like a lifelong obedient servant. Jesus taught this in several Parables such as the Parable of the Vineyard Workers (Matt. 20:1-16). This is what happened to the Thief on the cross. They are EXCEPTIONS to the rule.
YOUR problem is that you base your doctrines on the exception instead of the norm . . .

That's NOT true - and the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats if proof.
You cherry-pick the Scriptures instead of taking them ALL in context.

The works that God Himself prepared for us in advance (Eph. 2:10) are efficacious because they are done for HIS glory, not ours.
Works that we do for own glory are worthless.

This is am arrogant and spiritually prideful statement. YOU couldn't possibly know what is in a person's heart - OR if they were born again of the Holy Spirit.
Only GOD knows what is in the heart and the state of their soul.

Besides - there may be people of ALL Protestant sects that are in the SAME boat - including their leaders.

And therein lies the problem with ALL of Protestantism.

This is a perfect example of the mess you've made with your tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim they THEY are "in charge" and THEIR interpretation of Scripture is correct.

Thank you for that affirmation od the confuses mess that is Protestantism . . .

If I may interrupt this thought.

Actually, Protestants are having s bugger of a time shedding their RCC roots.
This is causing splinter groups among them.
The RCC is everything that 1st century Christianity is not.
The RCC has a powerfully deceptive pull on Protestants.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It is as easy as going into your bathtub and immersing yourself in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
If you come up out of the water calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, God will hear your cry.

If you do that but still have doubts, do your best to find a Oneness Pentecostal Church who will perform the sacrament for you.

Get this one done.

Once you have gotten it done, you will not regret it; and will never be the same.

WRONG.

There is NO provision in ALL of Scripture for "self-Baptism."
One is Baptized INTO Christ and His Church BY His Church - NOT by themselves.

 

[Truther]

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It is as easy as going into your bathtub and immersing yourself in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

If you come up out of the water calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, God will hear your cry.

If you do that but still have doubts, do your best to find a Oneness Pentecostal Church who will perform the sacrament for you.

Get this one done.

Once you have gotten it done, you will not regret it; and will never be the same.

Hey, I know a guy that was stuck in prison and baptized himself on a the name of Jesus Christ.
He got out years ago and stayed in the faith(I once volunteered there)

 

[Truther]

WRONG.

There is NO provision in ALL of Scripture for "self-Baptism."
One is Baptized INTO Christ and His Church BY His Church - NOT by themselves.

Lol

 

[BreadOfLife]

If I may interrupt this thought.

Actually, Protestants are having s bugger of a time shedding their RCC roots.
This is causing splinter groups among them.
The RCC is everything that 1st century Christianity is not.
The RCC has a powerfully deceptive pull on Protestants.

And this is just another cowardly non-response.
Speaking in generalizations doesn't make your case . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol

Show me ONE example in Scripture of a "self-Baptism" . . .

Isn't that a requirement for you Sola Scripturists - BIBLICAL proof??

 

[justbyfaith]

This is am arrogant and spiritually prideful statement. YOU couldn't possibly know what is in a person's heart - OR if they were born again of the Holy Spirit.

You will know them by their fruits...and I wouldn't say that pedophilia is good fruit.

Only GOD knows what is in the heart and the state of their soul.

People are judged and/or justified before man by the works that they do (Romans 4:2).

They absolutely place them outside the Body of Christ.
When you deny the nature of God - you have invented a different god - and this is a direct violation of the First Commandment.

A biblical case can be made for Oneness Theology...so believing in the Oneness view of God is not necessarily inventing a different god than the God of the Bible. For all you know, their view is accurate and the devil used his normal tactic of condemnation to deter people from believing the truth.

A person who dies 2 minutes after coming to faith yet never had a chance to be Baptized or do good works would be saved just like a lifelong obedient servant.

Thank you for admitting that my pov is correct! They had no works...they were saved...therefore they were not saved by works.

The works that God Himself prepared for us in advance (Eph. 2:10) are efficacious because they are done for HIS glory, not ours.

The Bible makes no delineation between works done for His glory and works done for our glory, when it says that we are not saved by works.

The fact of the matter is, salvation is not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

I have not cherry-picked verses here; I have given you whole passages.

But even if I had, (I repeat): within every cherry there is a seed that is capable of producing an entire tree.

 

[BreadOfLife]

See how upset you get when the lie is exposed and the truth put in front of you. Isnt Christ the truth and He sets men free, so why do you insist on keeping men from Christ.
What is going to be your excuse for separating men from God.

You didn't answer my question:
Did Peter LIE when he stated that the the followers of Christ were "living stones" and a "holy priesthood" (1 Pet. 2:5)??

Not that difficult to answer . . .

 

[Truther]

Show me ONE example in Scripture of a "self-Baptism" . . .

Isn't that a requirement for you Sola Scripturists - BIBLICAL proof??

There is zero scripture that assigns particular persons as baptizers.
Therefore it is open game.

 

[Truther]

And this is just another cowardly non-response.
Speaking in generalizations doesn't make your case . . .

No, you guys made up all the fake stuff and reformers are shaking the hook.