What is the purpose of Grace?

[Lizbeth]

That's not possible..and its silly .

Then you are calling holy scripture not possible and silly. Faith is the evidence. Faith is the substance. Sadly, you are just unable to understand/perceive it. It's like we receive what has been promised before it all comes to be. Faith is a seed that needs to grow....and everything that is to be brought forth in the future, the fruit, the crop.....is already contained in that little mustard seed.

 

[Lizbeth]

Frankly, you are better than this post which shows no capacity for discerning nuance. I did not attack your person, only the foolish idea you were advancing.



Is that supposed to be a homosexual implication? Perhaps you are ignorant of the threads where @Episkopos and I disputed each other rather passionately?



Did you fall off the Lindsay Clancy crazy bandwagon? As @Episkopos pointed out, your definition allows an asserted lie to be taken as evidence. You show again lacking the capacity of discernment. Evidence does not depend on faith. Yet, faith may involve evidence.

Converse. While all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. Study this well.



It’s said to see our sister in Christ so far from the narrow path.

I'm just saying EXACTLY what the bible says. Faith IS the evidence and the substance of things not seen but hoped for. Sad for you too that you can't understand it like Epi can't. It just shows how carnal you both are in your thinking......we need the mind of Christ to be able to perceive spiritual truth.....His mind is a spiritual mind.

 

[Lizbeth]

While I agree with you @Lizbeth, can you acknowledge @Episkopos’ point that different denominations hold different ideas of what saint means?

Two things can be true at the same time: an authoritative reference says one thing; people dispute it. Most words have different senses and I believe those of us who believe in Christ have to find a way to not passionately hate each other for having a different point of view. If we can’t get along with each other GRACEFULLY, we will not bring glory to God or bring people to Christ for our love for one another is not how the world knows we are his in such circumstances.

There is no way to "get along" with those who preach another gospel and reject the basic foundational tenets of the faith. I cannot link arms with such, but it doesn't mean hating anybody though.

It's not hard to see what a saint is in scripture....you have only to look it up and get the sense of it, with God's help. All those who belong to the flock of God, His church, are called saints.....everyone at different stages of growth/maturity.

 

[shepherdsword]

That's not possible..and its silly . For your scheme to work...any LIE that is believed must then be true. You are saying that the evidence of its truth is that it has been believed. You will need a LOT more logic brainpower than you are applying to your bible phantasms.

The EVIDENCE of a real faith is TRANSLATION into the unseen world of the kingdom FOR REAL. The substance is in the eternal reality...not the mind of the pretender. The substance is a full victory over sin through an intimate walk with the Lord in His power and love.


Jesus did real miracles. He didn't say....now go you blind man and ACT as if you can see. Pretend you see because I healed you. I gave you something ....sight...but without being able to see.

I have to ask you....do you raise the dead this way? Do you go to the morgue and pray for the dead then claim they are raised ...but just not visibly so in reality yet???

How more confused can a person be!? Your overwhelming desire to be the subject you read about in the bible is indeed fulfilled. By being poor naked wretched and blind you prove Jesus' point. You are claiming to have something you don't have. You are a perfect lesson on how to be a Laodicean.

The irony....

 

[shepherdsword]

There is no way to "get along" with those who preach another gospel and reject the basic foundational tenets of the faith. I cannot link arms with such, but it doesn't mean hating anybody though.

It's not hard to see what a saint is in scripture....you have only to look it up and get the sense of it, with God's help. All those who belong to the flock of God, His church, are called saints.....everyone at different stages of growth/maturity.

This needs to be carefully considered:

Jesus did real miracles. He didn't say....now go you blind man and ACT as if you can see. Pretend you see because I healed you. I gave you something ....sight...but without being able to see.

I have to ask you....do you raise the dead this way? Do you go to the morgue and pray for the dead then claim they are raised ...but just not visibly so in reality yet ??

 

[ProDeo]

I was handed that book, 26 years ago, by a lovely spiritual minded Christian lady, who sadly died that year from breast cancer.

I had shared with her my struggles, in the 17 years since I had become a believer. Some of it I now know was because I was undiagnosed neurodivergent, with concentration problems, and although I tried my best, I just felt such a failure as a Christian, and had a heavy burden on my back just as in Pilgrims Progress.

It just felt it too much to try to remember the rules from the Bible and obey them, reading the Bible and praying as much as I thought I should and falling on my face so often when thinking of the future and trusting God, being married to an alcoholic.

I had been a Calvinist for quite a bit of that time, and in church I felt I could not fit as they seemed to take it all in their stride.

I could not find anyone who could speak to my condition until I met Watchman Nee and he perfectly described me as NOT living a normal Christian life, but them he told me how to do it.

He said that rather than me struggling I should just believe that Christ had gained sanctification for me on the cross. It was already done and I was only required to believe that and surrender myself to Him.

There was a flash and I knew it was the truth and that it was the answer. I was immediately transported to a place full of light and for three days I was on the mountain top full of joyful peace.

It was like landing on another planet and even colours looked different. For three days I could think of nothing else and had to ask the Lord to stop as I felt my poor little heart could not take it.

The intensity reduced but it was still a heavenly place. I knew that he Lord had given me the pure heart I had longed for and I knew that I was at last walking in utter obedience to Him without effort.

The Bible seals opened up, and I was taught direcly by Him for that three days, and learned much more than the previous 17 years.

I was able to remain in that state for many months but fell from it because I had grown so used to it and began to lean on my own understanding over something.

I have hst downloaded Nees' book so might come back to say more but I recommend it if anyone is seeking.

Likewise, as a babe in Christ the book changed my spiritual life, a new world opened, I could not stop reading. But as a babe it was hard, I remember the chapter about Romans 6, I did not understand, but reading it again and again till I got it, well a bit.