The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[justbyfaith]

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your SECURE POSITION.

My Bible says "stedfastness".

2Pe 3:17, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

To be compared to:

Col 2:5, For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You will know them by their fruits..and I wouldn't say that pedophilia is good fruit.

First of all - onl;y a small percentage of priests were onvolved in the sex scandal - less than 1 %.
Secondly - they sinned - just like everybody who is in the Body of Christ else sins (1 Tim. 1:15, 1 John 1:8, Rom. 7:14-25). If they repent - they are forgiven and are STILL part of the Body.

YOUR judgement on their souls will be visited back to yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

People are judged and/or justified before man by the works that they do (Romans 4:2).

No - a person's WORKS are judged - NOT their souls.
That is up to God - and God ALONE.

Matt. 7:1-2 states that when you judge THEM - YOU will be judged by the same standard.

A biblical case can be made for Oneness Theology...so believing in the Oneness view of God is not necessarily inventing a different god than the God of the Bible. For all you know, their view is accurate and the devil used his normal tactic of condemnation to deter people from believing the truth.

WRONG.

The Bible is clear that God is a Trinity (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4).

Any denial of this is something OTHER than Christianity

The Bible makes no delineation between works done for His glory and works done for our glory, when it says that we are not saved by works.
The fact of the matter is, salvation is not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

I have not cherry-picked verses here; I have given you whole passages.
But even if I had, (I repeat): within every cherry there is a seed that is capable of producing an entire tree.

WRONG.

They were saved because they showed mercy (Love).
Paul says that the ONLY THING that matters os faith "working through LOVE" (Eph. 5:6).
He ALSO says that Faith is NOT the greatest virtue - but LOVE is (1 Cor. 13:13).
He says that even if he has "faith to move mountains" he has NOYHING if he has not LOVE (1 Cor. 13:2).

So - explain the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats . . .

 

[Truther]

First of all - onl;y a small percentage of priests were onvolved in the sex scandal - less than 1 %.
Secondly - they sinned - just like everybody who is in the Body of Christ else sins (1 Tim. 1:15, 1 John 1:8, Rom. 7:14-25). If they repent - they are forgiven and are STILL part of the Body.

YOUR judgement on their souls will be visited back to yourself (Matt. 7:1-2).

No - a person's WORKS are judged - NOT their souls.
That is up to God - and God ALONE.

Matt. 7:1-2 states that when you judge THEM - YOU will be judged by the same standard.

WRONG.

The Bible is clear that God is a Trinity (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4).

Any denial of this is something OTHER than Christianity

WRONG.

They were saved because they showed mercy (Love).
Paul says that the ONLY THING that matters os faith "working through LOVE" (Eph. 5:6).
He ALSO says that Faith is NOT the greatest virtue - but LOVE is (1 Cor. 13:13).
He says that even if he has "faith to move mountains" he has NOYHING if he has not LOVE (1 Cor. 13:2).

So - explain the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats . . .

Banning RCC priests from being married had only 1 objective. To eliminate nepotism in their hierarchy system. They survived 1700 years and are still going strong because of this.
Protestants accept nepotism which creates constant evolution in doctrines.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My Bible says "stedfastness".

2Pe 3:17, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
To be compared to:

Col 2:5, For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

And now, you are trying to nitpick because you are backed into a corner.
It means exactly the SAME thing. When in doubt - always go back to the original Greek . . .

The word used here is stay-rig-mos' (στεριγμοσ) and it means:
Firm conditon; Stability; Steadfastness

This is what "security" means.
Face it - you're wrong here . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Banning banning RCC priests from being married had only 1 objective. To eliminate nepotism in their hierarchy system. They survived 1700 years and are still going strong because of this.
Protestants accept nepotism which creates constant evolution in doctrines.

And therein lies the problem.

Doctrines should NOT continually "evolve". This leads to perversion of doctrine.
They need to be defined, as the Church has done.

As for YOUR reason for a celibate priesthood - this is nonsense.
It was modeled after Christ - and Paul's recommendation for celibacy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Banning RCC priests from being married had only 1 objective. To eliminate nepotism in their hierarchy system. They survived 1700 years and are still going strong because of this.

If you believe that priestly celibacy leads to child molestation - you are ignorant of the causes.
Psychologically speaking - the textbook example of a child molester is a married man.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you guys made up all the fake stuff and reformers are shaking the hook.

Again - when you speak in generalizations, it tells me that you don't have a case . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is zero scripture that assigns particular persons as baptizers.
Therefore it is open game.

WRONG.
Baptisms are ALWAYS performed by Church leaders in the NT. They are NEVER performed by the general public.

Like I said - show me ONE example of a "self-Baptism" . . .

 

[Truther]

Again - when you speak in generalizations, it tells me that you don't have a case . . .

Too much to list

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.

They were saved because they showed mercy (Love).
Paul says that the ONLY THING that matters os faith "working through LOVE" (Eph. 5:6).
He ALSO says that Faith is NOT the greatest virtue - but LOVE is (1 Cor. 13:13).
He says that even if he has "faith to move mountains" he has NOYHING if he has not LOVE (1 Cor. 13:2).

So - explain the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats . . .

The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of the believer because of faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5)

WRONG.

The Bible is clear that God is a Trinity (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4).

Any denial of this is something OTHER than Christianity

There is clearly one Lord in scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). Does not the Holy Spirit therefore testify that Jesus is the Father?

I am not saying that I don't see distinctions in the Godhead after further study. But I am saying that a man can be saved if he believes in the Deity of Christ but also believes that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I know that I was saved before believing this: then I began to believe in it; and did not lose my salvation (John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30). Then, after further study, I came to believe in a modified Trinity. You can see my pov here (will post a link shortly):

True Trinity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Too much to list

TRANSLATION:
"I don't have a case, so I'll hide behind idiotic generalizations."

That's what I thought . . .

 

[Truther]

If you believe that priestly celibacy leads to child molestation - you are ignorant of the causes.
Psychologically speaking - the textbook example of a child molester is a married man.

Not what I am saying. I am saying the RCC hierarchy decided in the beginning to keep priests from having sons, this way no sons could be elected as successors. This gave the kingship to elected priests in their affiliation , not elected priests by the laity.
Sons take kingdoms and churches, but not in Catholicism. Now you know the real reason.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.
Baptisms are ALWAYS performed by Church leaders in the NT. They are NEVER performed by the general public.

Like I said - show me ONE example of a "self-Baptism" . . .

Show us one example of someone being baptized in the titles.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of the believer because of faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5)

WRONG.
The believer must show love in order too have true faith (Matt. 25:31-46, Eph. 5:6, 1 Cor. 13:13, 1 Cor. 13:2) - or its worthless.

There is clearly one Lord in scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). Does not the Holy Spirit therefore testify that Jesus is the Father?

I am not saying that I don't see distinctions in the Godhead after further study. But I am saying that a man can be saved if he believes in the Deity of Christ but also believes that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I know that I was saved before believing this: then I began to believe in it; and did not lose my salvation (John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30). Then, after further study, I came to believe in a modified Trinity. You can see my pov here (will post a link shortly):

And the fact remains that if you deny the nature of God in the Triune Godhead - you have invented a FALSE god.
This is a direct violation of the First Commandment.

"Oneness" theology is a false god.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Show us one example of someone being baptized in the titles.

EVERY example of the Baptism of Christ in the NT was done by one of the Church leaders.
Show me ONE that wasn't.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not what I am saying. I am saying the RCC hierarchy decided in the beginning to keep priests from having sons, this way no sons could be elected as successors. This gave the kingship to elected priests in their affiliation , not elected priests by the laity.
Sons take kingdoms and churches, but not in Catholicism. Now you know the real reason.

Then, perhaps YOU can show me when priestly celibacy began taking root in the Church - and whether or not it had ANYTHING to do with nepotism.

This should be easy for you since you claim to know what you're talking about . . .

 

[Truther]

Then, perhaps YOU can show me when priestly celibacy began taking root in the Church - and whether or not it had ANYTHING to do with nepotism.

This should be easy for you since you claim to know what you're talking about . . .

Just ask your local priest when they created the celibacy rule. They are taught it’s origins in seminary. They think it is to keep them pure, but it is to keep them from having their kids take over the congregation

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just ask your local priest when they created the celibacy rule. They are taught it’s origins in seminary. They think it is to keep them pure, but it is to keep them from having their kids take over the congregation

I'm not asking my "local priest" - I'm asking YOU.

I asked YOU to show me when priestly celibacy began taking root in the Church - and whether or not it had ANYTHING to do with nepotism.

If you can't answer the question - then you don't have a case.
I eagerly await your educated response . . .

 

[Helen]

This bit gets me, if we are in a race, someone must win and someone must loose. I liked it first year in school everyone was rewarded no matter how they performed.

Ah...but what level of reward....
The Prize if God Himself ... ( "You are my portion and my inheritance " )

Our prize is the portion of Him that we run for...large or small.

I believe we will be as close to God there...as we have lived close to Him here. He offers Himself to all...but not all will or are taking up that invite ...the kingdom starts here...
Daily we are choosing.

"Many are called, but few choose to be chosen"

They were invited to the wedding feast...some made excuses ..'sorry I just married a cow', or 'sorry I must plough the river today', or my wife needs proving... etc etc..all stupid excuses...yet their own choice ...

Peter, James and John were the only 3 who went up the mountain with Jesus. I wonder what Andrew , Mathew and the other were busy doing..
Food for thought....but no one likes thinking on these things.

 

[Helen]

But than if it is all about prizes, than where are out hearts at. We should pursue Christ for who He is not for what we get.

See what I just wrote to you in this post...you are missing the whole point.

YES all are invited, not all ( Christians) will pay the price to win Him! That is why I contend that not ALL are in The Bride.
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever