The Gospel of John Bible Study

[reformed1689]

You had mentioned before, decretive, prescriptive, permissive, all that . . .

Are you of the opinion God desired that Adam would sin?

Much love!

God foreordained the Fall. Otherwise, the fall would not have happened. It is part of His permissive will. And as far as Romans 9, you missed a part.

Paul is writing about Pharaoh and God's hardening of his heart. The he says he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. Meaning, there are some he will not have mercy on. Then Paul anticipates the objection. Why does he still find fault?

And how does Paul respond?

20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

[marks]

God foreordained the Fall. Otherwise, the fall would not have happened. It is part of His permissive will. And as far as Romans 9, you missed a part.

Paul is writing about Pharaoh and God's hardening of his heart. The he says he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. Meaning, there are some he will not have mercy on. Then Paul anticipates the objection. Why does he still find fault?

And how does Paul respond?

20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Hi David, you are quick to say I've missed something, are you so sure?

Let's go back a few steps please.

Does God want man to sin?

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Hi David, you are quick to say I've missed something, are you so sure?

Let's go back a few steps please.

Does God want man to sin?

Much love!

This is the classic argument. Does he allow it for temporal purposes in his sovereignty to ultimately display his justice, wrath, and glory? Yes.

 

[marks]

The he says he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.

OK, but what's not clarified in this passage is the criteria God uses for determining upon whom He will have mercy. That is clarified in other passages, such as, come unto me all you who . . . that whosoever believes in me . . . who desires that all come to repentance . . . And so on.

Romans 9 is about people groups, not individual salvation.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

OK, but what's not clarified in this passage is the criteria God uses for determining upon whom He will have mercy. That is clarified in other passages, such as, come unto me all you who . . . that whosoever believes in me . . . who desires that all come to repentance . . . And so on.o

Romans 9 is about people groups, not individual salvation.

Much love!

Actually no, it is not clarified. We do not know why God chooses some to be saved and others to be left in their sin. He does not give us that information.

 

[marks]

This is the classic argument. Does he allow it for temporal purposes in his sovereignty to ultimately display his justice, wrath, and glory? Yes.

Don't dismiss me so readily.

There is a simple and true answer. God does not want people to sin. Do you not agree with that?

Not even in some sly underhanded way, NO, I don't want sin, however, without it, I can't get what I do want wink wink.

There are many convoluted arguments, but there is also simplicity.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God foreordained the Fall. Otherwise, the fall would not have happened. It is part of His permissive will.

If God foreordained the Fall, then this would go beyond "permissive will", would it not? God foreordaining the Fall is saying that God created man so that man would fall into sin.

But doesn't this view give God's approval of sin? That God had something that He wanted, and to get what He wanted people had to sin, so God made them so they could sin and be redeemed? I don't think that's what God was doing.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Don't dismiss me so readily.

There is a simple and true answer. God does not want people to sin. Do you not agree with that?

Not even in some sly underhanded way, NO, I don't want sin, however, without it, I can't get what I do want wink wink.

There are many convoluted arguments, but there is also simplicity.

Much love!

The reason I gave the answer I did is because the argument of sin is actually a red herring to the issue.

 

[marks]

The reason I gave the answer I did is because the argument of sin is actually a red herring to the issue.

I'd disagree on that. I think it IS the issue.

I think that God created desiring a certain thing. That thing included man having a choice, and man choose to separate from God. Nonetheless, God still wanted what it was He created for in the first place, and, of course, this not being a surprise, He already knew that He would send is Own Right Arm to give us an opportunity to receive His gift, even though we've separated.

I believe the best representation of God from the Bible is that He wanted to give Himself in love, and created us for that purpose, to be recipients of His goodness and love, and that we would reflect His goodness and love to others.

Sin wrecked this creation, and so God is resurrecting those who will agree to His life spiritually in this world, and physically in the age to come.

And so God will have His family in righteousness and holiness, and in love that we freely want to give to Him.

And I believe that is the only way He could obtain that in righteousness. Righteousness and Love, love freely given.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

and in love that we freely want to give to Him.

Except we are told in Scripture no natural man wants to give anything to him. NO man seeks after God.

 

[Stan B]

Our church is Methodist in name only.

I come from the family that established the first Methodist Churches in the USA and Canada.

We were amongst some 13,000 Lutherans from the German Rhine Palatine, that were invited by Queen Anne in 1709 to come to the British Isles in an effort to offset Romanist political aggression in the Empire. We were amongst 3,000 Palatines who settled in southern Ireland. When I read John Wesely's journal, he seemed to be disgusted with their somewhat depraved lifestyle.

John Wesley visited them in 1750, proclaiming the Gospel, which they fully accepted. 36 years later, my family built the first Methodist Church in North America on John Street, New York in 1786. After being kicked out of the US due to their respect for the Monarchy, they built the first Canadian Methodist church in Philipsburg, Quebec. From there they built a multitude of Methodist churches throughout eastern Ontario. Personally, I don't recall ever being in a Methodist Church.

With regard to your teaching on John (yawn!), can you imagine how many sermons I have heard on John over the past 70 years!! And while you might have evening services to accommodate such teaching, as if the Gospel of John needed to be taught yet again. Like a mere junior school child can read and understand it!

It has been two or three years since I attended yet another boring repetitive church service. It has been decades since I learned anything in church that I already didn't know. The church has become a lazy apathetic Laodecean milk-feeding station for those who don't really care. The last church I attended had deleted most of the Bible, forever focusing upon a mere 77 pages of a 1200 page Bible.

At least, a small fragment of the church is engaging in pertinent end-times theology. I have really enjoyed listening to Dr David Jeramiah's 72 sermons on Daniel and Revelation; and I also follow other sources such as Pastor Jeff at our former winter home at Indian Rocks Baptist Church in Florida.

After 70 years in the church, I think I am ready for a little solid food, but it's just not there!

 

[reformed1689]

With regard to your teaching on John (yawn!), can you imagine how many sermons I have heard on John over the past 70 years!! And while you might have evening services to accommodate such teaching, as if the Gospel of John needed to be taught yet again. Like a mere junior school child can read and understand it!

It has been two or three years since I attended yet another boring repetitive church service. It has been decades since I learned anything in church that I already didn't know. The church has become a lazy apathetic Laodecean milk-feeding station for those who don't really care. The last church I attended had deleted most of the Bible, forever focusing upon a mere 77 pages of a 1200 page Bible.

At least, a small fragment of the church is engaging in pertinent end-times theology. I have really enjoyed listening to Dr David Jeramiah's 72 sermons on Daniel and Revelation; and I also follow other sources such as Pastor Jeff at our former winter home at Indian Rocks Baptist Church in Florida.

After 70 years in the church, I think I am ready for a little solid food, but it's just not there!

Wow, it is almost as if you are saying "I've heard so many sermons on the Bible I don't need anymore." I'm sure that's not what you meant but that's how it came across.

So what should someone be preaching on? And what is wrong with preaching through John? Do you have any actual feedback for my sermons or are you just sounding off?

 

[marks]

Wow, it is almost as if you are saying "I've heard so many sermons on the Bible I don't need anymore." I'm sure that's not what you meant but that's how it came across.

So what should someone be preaching on? And what is wrong with preaching through John? Do you have any actual feedback for my sermons or are you just sounding off?

I like Peter's words, to paraphrase, I know you know these things, but I don't ever get tired of reminding you.

If you want some lofty new Idea every day, well, I find that they seem to come most often from looking at the same passage for the 500th time.

Simple reminders are far from simple in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Except we are told in Scripture no natural man wants to give anything to him. NO man seeks after God.

But God is seeking after us.

The Bible is the story of a mankind who is hiding from God, while God is searching us out, calling us home.

You will never convince me that God does not love much of humanity.

Much love!

 

[Stan B]

Wow, it is almost as if you are saying "I've heard so many sermons on the Bible I don't need anymore." I'm sure that's not what you meant but that's how it came across.

So what should someone be preaching on? And what is wrong with preaching through John? Do you have any actual feedback for my sermons or are you just sounding off?

For me, attending church is like going back to kindergarten every week. The quality of the stuff being delivered from the pulpit in my area has declined at a rapid rate. With nothing useful to say, they merely fill their time boring us with a lot of meaningless words. Music in the church has also totally disappeared. No hymns, just 7-11 stuff [7 words repeated 11 times] to the din of guitars and drums. Organs have all been tossed in the garbage, because no one knows how to play them.

I used to have a vast library of theological works, but have now tossed well over a thousand of those books in the garbage, after giving a minister friend first pick. He filled his car with hundreds of books. I no longer read religious books, even those from the most prominent of teachers. I am quite satisfied with just studying Scripture without external interference. Why do I need the help of someone else when "when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." John 16:13

I have given up on church. I haven't attended church in over two years but do enjoy studying the Bible on a daily basis. Notwithstanding, at age 77 with compromised mobility, it is not a really great option.

 

[reformed1689]

For me, attending church is like going back to kindergarten every week. The quality of the stuff being delivered from the pulpit in my area has declined at a rapid rate. With nothing useful to say, they merely fill their time boring us with a lot of meaningless words. Music in the church has also totally disappeared. No hymns, just 7-11 stuff [7 words repeated 11 times] to the din of guitars and drums. Organs have all been tossed in the garbage, because no one knows how to play them.

I used to have a vast library of theological works, but have now tossed well over a thousand of those books in the garbage, after giving a minister friend first pick. He filled his car with hundreds of books. I no longer read religious books, even those from the most prominent of teachers. I am quite satisfied with just studying Scripture without external interference. Why do I need the help of someone else when "when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." John 16:13

I have given up on church. I haven't attended church in over two years but do enjoy studying the Bible on a daily basis. Notwithstanding, at age 77 with compromised mobility, it is not a really great option.

So you just forsake the church because you have too much knowledge? How arrogant! Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together....

 

[Stan B]

So you just forsake the church because you have too much knowledge? How arrogant! Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together....

No! It's not that I have too much knowledge. It's that the church has too little knowledge! It's in a state of total Laodicean apathy.

And I don't forsake the assembling . . . I assemble on a daily basis where I have closer friends and
associates than I ever had at church. That's the wonder of the internet, where I can assemble with people thousands of miles away. I often receive 50+ messages on my cell phone before noon, as we all share our lives together.

 

[reformed1689]

No! It's not that I have too much knowledge. It's that the church has too little knowledge! It's in a state of total Laodicean apathy.

And I don't forsake the assembling . . . I assemble on a daily basis where I have closer friends and
associates than I ever had at church. That's the wonder of the internet, where I can assemble with people thousands of miles away. I often receive 50+ messages on my cell phone before noon, as we all share our lives together.

If you have more knowledge than the church why are you not volunteering in a church to raise the knowledge level? You are in error on so many levels here.

 

[Stan B]

If you have more knowledge than the church why are you not volunteering in a church to raise the knowledge level? You are in error on so many levels here.

How quickly you rush to Summary Judgement, an evil which is so characteristic of the apostate church of today. People like you are one of the reasons why I no longer want to associate with the churches around me. My last experience with the church, instead of being a place of refuge, was more like being cast into a den of lions!

While you have typically cast dispersions upon me, someone you don't even know is disgusting!

A year ago I spent 2 months in hospital because I had given up on living on this earth after my wife of 50 years died. I had stopped eating, and after losing 70 lbs finally collapsed from malnutrition. After two months in the hospital, their prognosis was that I only had about 3 months to live, they refused to release me until I had arranged to enter a long-term-care facility. They refused to allow me to return to my home! So I called upon the kids to rescue me, and return me to my home, where I have been making out rather well over the past year. Notwithstanding, each day is a major challenge to just get through the day. And if you think I am about to appear at some church to teach is daft amusing nonsense!!

I have done my job and done it well. As the Bible says: "visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”, my life has been quite the opposite!! I have passed on the Faith of the Father onto the third generation, and fully expect it to be passed on to the fourth generation.

Having faithfully done my job, I see the results throughout my entire family. Time for me to retire. I have passed the torch on to my children and grandchildren, all of who love the Lord!

Is it God who inspired you to tear me apart, or is it some other spirit??

 

[reformed1689]

How quickly you rush to Summary Judgement, an evil which is so characteristic of the apostate church of today. People like you are one of the reasons why I no longer want to associate with the churches around me. My last experience with the church, instead of being a place of refuge, was more like being cast into a den of lions!

While you have typically cast dispersions upon me, someone you don't even know is disgusting!

A year ago I spent 2 months in hospital because I had given up on living on this earth after my wife of 50 years died. I had stopped eating, and after losing 70 lbs finally collapsed from malnutrition. After two months in the hospital, their prognosis was that I only had about 3 months to live, they refused to release me until I had arranged to enter a long-term-care facility. They refused to allow me to return to my home! So I called upon the kids to rescue me, and return me to my home, where I have been making out rather well over the past year. Notwithstanding, each day is a major challenge to just get through the day. And if you think I am about to appear at some church to teach is daft amusing nonsense!!

I have done my job and done it well. As the Bible says: "visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”, my life has been quite the opposite!! I have passed on the Faith of the Father onto the third generation, and fully expect it to be passed on to the fourth generation.

Having faithfully done my job, I see the results throughout my entire family. Time for me to retire. I have passed the torch on to my children and grandchildren, all of who love the Lord!

Is it God who inspired you to tear me apart, or is it some other spirit??

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote that prompted what I said in the first place. It was a rebuke for self-righteous statements of holier than thou. I do not apologize for that.