The Gospel of John Bible Study

[marks]

How do you figure that?

Why did God make you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why did God make you?

Much love!

I'm sorry! I answer a question with a question!

OK.

Here's how I figure that. God's intent for us is to make us all His family, and I believe that everyone who has ever lived was created special by God for the purpose of receiving God's love, and reflecting that love back to Him, and to others.

God is love, and as such, He only creates people so they can receive His love.

Those who reject His love, and who are antagonistic to those whom He loves, will received from Him accordingly.

Those who desire His love will also receive from Him accordingly.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Why did God make you?

Much love!

For his glory.

 

[reformed1689]

God's intent for us is to make us all His family, and I believe that everyone who has ever lived was created special by God for the purpose of receiving God's love, and reflecting that love back to Him, and to others.

Based on what? Some vessels are prepared for wrath for the glory of God.

God is love, and as such, He only creates people so they can receive His love.

Where does Scripture state this?

Those who reject His love, and who are antagonistic to those whom He loves, will received from Him accordingly.

That is everyone in their natural state.

Those who desire His love will also receive from Him accordingly.

That is nobody in their natural state.

 

[marks]

For his glory.

I think this is overly simplistic, and is imcomplete.

 

[reformed1689]

I think this is overly simplistic, and is imcomplete.

That is the ultimate reason. But he did not create us for the reasons you gave according to Scripture.

 

[marks]

Based on what? Some vessels are prepared for wrath for the glory of God.

We're either talking about:

A) a God Who created man so that man can enjoy being with God, and desires all to be with Him

B) a God Who created man because He wants some to experience eternal delights, while He wants others to experience eternal torments.

God is love. That tells me how to answer this.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

We're either talking about:

A) a God Who created man so that man can enjoy being with God, and desires all to be with Him

B) a God Who created man because He wants some to experinece eternal delights, while He wants others to experience eternal torments.

God is love. That tells me how to answer this.

Much love!

Why are those the only two options? That is a very selfish way of thinking as if God owes us something, owes us His love. Owes us salvation. He doesn't.

God is love, but God is also righteous, holy, just, merciful, and you can't just isolate love and ignore everything else.

 

[amadeus]

@David Taylor
Earlier today I listened to your second recording, The Lamb of God, John 1:19-34. Again it was a very good presentation. The main point where I thought you muddied the waters a bit was in your explanation of the "world". I agree that it has more than one meaning, but, for me, you did not really make clear what each meaning was. Consider these verses starting with the one you used:

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29

Then look back to the beginning:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..." Gen 2:7

Is not the world, planet Earth, made from dust, dirt, earth? And so are we? Jesus was the first overcomer, overcoming the sinful nature or attraction or temptation within his own body of flesh/dust/dirt/earth/world.

Then read what Jesus says here:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

What was it that Jesus overcame? It certainly was not planet Earth.

I won't say any more but hopefully you'll consider those verses and next try to improve your explanation.​

 

[marks]

Why are those the only two options? That is a very selfish way of thinking as if God owes us something, owes us His love. Owes us salvation. He doesn't.

God is love, but God is also righteous, holy, just, merciful, and you can't just isolate love and ignore everything else.

That's not how I think of things at all.

As if He owes us? No, He owes us nothing.

But He made us for a reason. He made us because He wants us, not just to throw us away.

Let's not think of God's attributes as being contrary to each other. God is love, and God is righteous, and God is holy, and God is just.

These is no isolation, not for any of His attributes. But in that God is just, this does not diminish His love.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

He made us because He wants us, not just to throw us away.

Again, what are you basing this off of?

Let's not think of God's attributes as being contrary to each other. God is love, and God is righteous, and God is holy, and God is just.

These is no isolation, not for any of His attributes. But in that God is just, this does not diminish His love.

I agree. But what does it mean that God is love? The way you are presenting it says that you are thinking of it from man's point of view to mean that if God is truly loving He must love us on our terms. I know that is not what you are thinking but that is the logical conclusion of your argument.

 

[reformed1689]

This weeks message has been posted. The Power of the Creator: Turning Water Into Wine (John 2:1-12) - Reformed Truths

 

[marks]

I agree. But what does it mean that God is love? The way you are presenting it says that you are thinking of it from man's point of view to mean that if God is truly loving He must love us on our terms. I know that is not what you are thinking but that is the logical conclusion of your argument.

Not so. That is if you make the assumption of what love is to God.

We can keep this simple.

Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and commands they turn from their wickedness and live.

What more need be said? This is God's statement of value, and His intention for us.

His value statement is that life in righteousness is preferred over death in wickedness. His desire is that all would live in righteousness.

How could this be true if in fact a certain large portion of humanity were created solely for the purpose of eternal torments in the second death?

If even one person was?

We commit ourselves to Him as unto a faithful creator. Why put it this way, if merely being created by God gave no assurance of His good intent?

If God created some for heaven and some for hell, then for all we know the faithfulness of our creator is to insure we are safely and surely ushered into the fires of hell.

We can hope that we are one of the chosen, because if we're not we're merely deluded and that's that. But if our hope is in a loving creator Who wants us, and we know that because we know He wants all the people He made, then we can know His faithfulness is towards our good.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Not so. That is if you make the assumption of what love is to God.

We can keep this simple.

Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and commands they turn from their wickedness and live.

What more need be said? This is God's statement of value, and His intention for us.

His value statement is that life in righteousness is preferred over death in wickedness. His desire is that all would live in righteousness.

How could this be true if in fact a certain large portion of humanity were created solely for the purpose of eternal torments in the second death?

If even one person was?

We commit ourselves to Him as unto a faithful creator. Why put it this way, if merely being created by God gave no assurance of His good intent?

If God created some for heaven and some for hell, then for all we know the faithfulness of our creator is to insure we are safely and surely ushered into the fires of hell.

We can hope that we are one of the chosen, because if we're not we're merely deluded and that's that. But if our hope is in a loving creator Who wants us, and we know that because we know He wants all the people He made, then we can know His faithfulness is towards our good.

Much love!

That is one way to look at it, but that assumes pleasure is the same thing as will and decree. I can sentence someone to death, but does that mean I have to take pleasure in that?

 

[marks]

That is one way to look at it, but that assumes pleasure is the same thing as will and decree. I can sentence someone to death, but does that mean I have to take pleasure in that?

It tells me something about you if you are a judge and you sentence someone to death, contrary to your desire for that person (that they live in righteousness), but in keeping with your desire for all people (that a righteous world exist).

God tells us His desire for all people, that they all live in righteousness, that none of them die in wickedness.

That tells me He most definitely did not create anyone to be destroyed in unrighteousness.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

God tells us His desire for all people, that they all live in righteousness, that none of them die in wickedness.

That is not the same thing as saying that it is His will to save each and every one of them. If it was his will to save every person every person would be saved. Clearly, that is not the case.

 

[reformed1689]

That tells me He most definitely did not create anyone to be destroyed in unrighteousness.

Romans 9 would disagree.

 

[marks]

Romans 9 would disagree.

Not so.

God sustained the Pharaoh to finish the course, but God did not create Pharaoh to be condemned for sin. If that's what you had in mind . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is not the same thing as saying that it is His will to save each and every one of them. If it was his will to save every person every person would be saved. Clearly, that is not the case.

Really?

You're view then is that God desires some men to burn in the Lake of Fire?

Much love?

 

[marks]

That is not the same thing as saying that it is His will to save each and every one of them. If it was his will to save every person every person would be saved. Clearly, that is not the case.

You had mentioned before, decretive, prescriptive, permissive, all that . . .

Are you of the opinion God desired that Adam would sin?

Much love!