The New Covenant

[charity]

Charity, consider this.....The promise of redemption was given to Adam and his seed. All other promises (covenants) are a reiteration of this same promise. The phenomena of Israel is but a type of God's people called out of Egypt.
The tabernacle/temple of Israel is a type. In fact, all the stories/ the history of scripture is but a type for the one thing; God's message and Salvation Plan lived out in real life analogies by people and nations and ceremonies given.

There are only ever two sides; God and Satan....Cain and Able....Israel and the Heathens....Jerusalem and Babylon right down to the struggle as Christians we have within ourselves between good and evil.
To put the spotlight of focus on Israel is but a misapplication of the intent of scripture and as first promised to Adam. The spotlight is to be on Jesus as he is the revealing of God's salvation plan. God's purposes are to be understood as finding (past, present continuous tense) fulfilment in Jesus and his activity.
All other focus(s) are none other than decoys and detract from the primary objective

Hello @quietthinker,

Thank you for this response, I apologise for not answering it before this, but it seems that I missed several along the way.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of all Scripture I agree, all things point to Him, and to the plan and purpose of God to be accomplished through Him. However, Israel has an important part to play in God's purpose for mankind, which they have yet to fulfil, (apart from being the nation through whom the Promised 'Seed' would come) but will do so in their allotted time. To not give them the place due to them would be wrong.

There are several covenants recorded in Scripture, but the one I am referring to is the New Covenant, which is to replace the Old Covenant made by God with Israel at Sinai.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

You raise an interesting point, a covenant relationship.

Jesus said this

1 And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." Mark 9:1
The mountain of transfiguration was the kingdom of God come with power.​

Paul says this about the Holy Spirit

9 And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9​

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2 Cor 3:3​

13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
1 Cor 12:13​

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Cor 2:14​

In all of history, the church is the first group other than John the Baptist, who are filled with the Holy Spirit, a communion with the Most High, were we are His temple.

There is no closer relationship than this, it is life, eternal life, a communion with the Most High.
This is the start of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

But then if someones faith is not bounded by these realities, then clearly descriptions of covenants might get confusing.

We did a bible study the other day, and I realised Jesus said He was the vine.

Paul's illustration of Israel being part of Gods vine, the branches broken off, and we grafted in was one perspective.

Jesus being the vine, we are sealed in the Holy Spirit into the Kingdom, there is no other reality.
Jesus knew what He was saying calling Himself the vine. Praise the Lord.

Hello @FollowHim,

I thank you for both these entries (replies#29,#30), which for some reason I missed along the way. Forgive me for not responding before now.
I join you in praising God for all that Christ has been made to us.

* The first thing you did in your first entry was to remark about my reference to:- 'a covenant relationship'.

- As you will know, a covenant is an agreement or contract entered into by two or more parties which contain certain conditions that must be fulfilled. An 'everlasting covenant' was made with Israel: which was typified by the offering of the 'shewbread' in the tabernacle on every Sabbath day (Leviticus 24:5-9). That is why I used the term when speaking of Israel for they were in 'a covenant relationship' with God, as you will know, on the basis of that covenant made with them by God at Sinai.​

* As you say, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are also in a relationship with God, through the union they have, by faith, with Christ Jesus their Lord: they are adopted as 'sons of God' (Ephesians 1:5), and have the right to call Him, 'Father' (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) . To them, He is, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ' (Ephesians 1:3). Believers are therefore in the wonderful position of having access into God's presence at all times, their welcome is assured, for they are His 'sons' (regardless of gender) in and through Christ Jesus their Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

* You have referred to several different points which are worthy of a study of their own, such as:-
'The Transfiguration':- (Mark 9:1-9 & Matthew 16:27-17-9; 2 Peter 1:16-18).
'What Paul had to say about the Holy Spirit'
'The filling of the Holy Spirit',
'Communion with the Most High',
'Believers being the Temple of God',
'The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth' and
'The Lord Jesus Christ as The True Vine' (John 15:1).

* Maybe we can discuss these at some time, 'FollowHim', but now my watch tells me that it is 12-40pm so I am going to bed.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Davy]

Thank you very much, @Davy,

But I must stand by what I have said to date. The New Covenant will be made with the nation of Israel (all twelve tribes).

Forgive my brevity, but I have to go now,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks for your input too, but you stand by a false idea, because Jesus offered The New Covenant upon His cross, so you're kind of late if you haven't recognized that yet, and if you don't recognize it already, then that means you desire to still be under the old covenant!

So where's your sacrifices that you think can save you???

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello @FollowHim,

I thank you for both these entries (replies#29,#30), which for some reason I missed along the way. Forgive me for not responding before now.
I join you in praising God for all that Christ has been made to us.

* The first thing you did in your first entry was to remark about my reference to:- 'a covenant relationship'.

- As you will know, a covenant is an agreement or contract entered into by two or more parties which contain certain conditions that must be fulfilled. An 'everlasting covenant' was made with Israel: which was typified by the offering of the 'shewbread' in the tabernacle on every Sabbath day (Leviticus 24:5-9). That is why I used the term when speaking of Israel for they were in 'a covenant relationship' with God, as you will know, on the basis of that covenant made with them by God at Sinai.​

* As you say, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are also in a relationship with God, through the union they have, by faith, with Christ Jesus their Lord: they are adopted as 'sons of God' (Ephesians 1:5), and have the right to call Him, 'Father' (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) . To them, He is, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ' (Ephesians 1:3). Believers are therefore in the wonderful position of having access into God's presence at all times, their welcome is assured, for they are His 'sons' (regardless of gender) in and through Christ Jesus their Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

* You have referred to several different points which are worthy of a study of their own, such as:-
'The Transfiguration':- (Mark 9:1-9 & Matthew 16:27-17-9; 2 Peter 1:16-18).
'What Paul had to say about the Holy Spirit':- Romans 8:8-10; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Corinthians 2:14.
'The filling of the Holy Spirit',
'Communion with the Most High',
'Believers being the Temple of God',
'The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth' and
'The Lord Jesus Christ as The True Vine' (John 15:1).

* Maybe we can discuss these at some time, 'FollowHim', but now my watch tells me that it is 12-40pm so I am going to bed.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

What do you believe it would look like for Jesus to redeem Israel? Or what is your view of redemption?

 

[quietthinker]

Hello @quietthinker,

Thank you for this response, I apologise for not answering it before this, but it seems that I missed several along the way.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of all Scripture I agree, all things point to Him, and to the plan and purpose of God to be accomplished through Him. However, Israel has an important part to play in God's purpose for mankind, apart from being the nation through whom the Promised 'Seed' would come: which they have yet to fulfil, but will do so in their allotted time. To not give them the place due to them would be wrong.

There are several covenants recorded in Scripture, but the one I am referring to is the New Covenant, which is to replace the Old Covenant made by God with Israel at Sinai.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Dear Charity...Yes there are several covenants recorded in the scripture and as said in my previous post they consist of the same covenant repeated to different men. It was given to Adam, to Noah, to Moses etc. The Old Covenant is called so because the message of Salvation was conveyed to people in types till the reality came. The New Covenant (the reality) is the message that God forgives sin through Jesus (the promised seed). Jesus is the reality of the types and therefore a replacement of the types. The New Covenant is new in the replacement or fulfilment sense, not in the sense that it is a different covenant.

Type (animal sacrifices, washings, various protocol) has met antitype (Jesus); the symbol has met the reality therefore the type has become obsolete. Does this obsolescence then apply to the Moral Law (10c's) because the law of types no longer apply? Of course not and as Paul says in Romans 3:31, KJV: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
Is Paul here referring to the law of types? No, not at all.

Jesus died precisely because the moral Law was impossible to dismiss, to change, to abrogate. It demanded death of the transgressor. If it were possible Jesus need not have died, God could just change it or abrogate it.

Now to excuse or to nullify the Moral Law by applying the New Covenant idea is not only ignorant but the height of foolishness.

The geographical Nation of Israel wanted no part in this reality....they lost sight of what the types symbolised and chose to keep it that way, they chose a murderer (Barabas) and an oppressor ('we have no King but Caesar) in place of the Prince of Life whom they cast out. They have never altered their position then or now.

Do they or will they play a role today or in the future of scriptural prophecy? As a Nation no. The privilege that was theirs as a Nation and a disseminator of Gods Grace they forever forfeited (their house is left desolate as Jesus said) As a Nation they cast their vote in their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah yet as individuals they can be grafted back in so to speak. When the individual hears the message of forgiveness through Jesus and the Spirit awakens conscience they have the same opportunity as the Gentiles.

A case in point is is Peter's address to the crowd in Acts 2:14-39 ....he tells them straight, they are the murderers of a God accredited man. Their conscience is pricked and they ask what they can do (vs 37) Peter tells them to repent and be baptised (vs 38)...... This is the same message that went to the Gentiles .....then he confirms that the promise (covenant) is to them and their children (vs 39)

I hope you can wrap your understanding around these things.

 

[mjrhealth]

Now to excuse or to nullify the Moral Law by applying the New Covenant idea is not only ignorant but the height of foolishness.

We are not talking about Moral law ,here.

Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

you are talking about this one

Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

You want Jesus who died on the cross, gave His life for many, to reject all He did, than keep you from dying by the very law you choose to be judged by.

He isnt getting back up on that cross for anyman.

That is the height of arrogance,

 

[charity]

Thanks for your input too, but you stand by a false idea, because Jesus offered The New Covenant upon His cross, so you're kind of late if you haven't recognized that yet, and if you don't recognize it already, then that means you desire to still be under the old covenant!

So where's your sacrifices that you think can save you???

Hello @Davy,

I am in Christ Jesus, by the grace of God, and He is my surety.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Dear Charity...Yes there are several covenants recorded in the scripture and as said in my previous post they consist of the same covenant repeated to different men. It was given to Adam, to Noah, to Moses etc. The Old Covenant is called so because the message of Salvation was conveyed to people in types till the reality came. The New Covenant (the reality) is the message that God forgives sin through Jesus (the promised seed). Jesus is the reality of the types and therefore a replacement of the types. The New Covenant is new in the replacement or fulfilment sense, not in the sense that it is a different covenant.

Type (animal sacrifices, washings, various protocol) has met antitype (Jesus); the symbol has met the reality therefore the type has become obsolete. Does this obsolescence then apply to the Moral Law (10c's) because the law of types no longer apply? Of course not and as Paul says in Romans 3:31, KJV: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
Is Paul here referring to the law of types? No, not at all.

Jesus died precisely because the moral Law was impossible to dismiss, to change, to abrogate. It demanded death of the transgressor. If it were possible Jesus need not have died, God could just change it or abrogate it.

Now to excuse or to nullify the Moral Law by applying the New Covenant idea is not only ignorant but the height of foolishness.

The geographical Nation of Israel wanted no part in this reality....they lost sight of what the types symbolised and chose to keep it that way, they chose a murderer (Barabas) and an oppressor ('we have no King but Caesar) in place of the Prince of Life whom they cast out. They have never altered their position then or now.

Do they or will they play a role today or in the future of scriptural prophecy? As a Nation no. The privilege that was theirs as a Nation and a disseminator of Gods Grace they forever forfeited (their house is left desolate as Jesus said) As a Nation they cast their vote in their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah yet as individuals they can be grafted back in so to speak. When the individual hears the message of forgiveness through Jesus and the Spirit awakens conscience they have the same opportunity as the Gentiles.

A case in point is is Peter's address to the crowd in Acts 2:14-39 ....he tells them straight, they are the murderers of a God accredited man. Their conscience is pricked and they ask what they can do (vs 37) Peter tells them to repent and be baptised (vs 38)...... This is the same message that went to the Gentiles .....then he confirms that the promise (covenant) is to them and their children (vs 39)

I hope you can wrap your understanding around these things.

Hello there, @quietthinker,

I can certainly, 'wrap my understanding around those things', as you say. However there is much that I disagree with.

* With respect to you, it is not correct to say that the covenants of the Old Testament were the same covenant repeated. No one who has read the accounts of them in the Old Testament could honestly say that. The only one that was repeated, was that made to Abraham, which was an everlasting, but unconditional covenant, made with and repeated to, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To whom the promise of God (or unconditional covenant) was given

* Also the New Covenant will be made with Israel, and will replace the Old Covenant, which though everlasting was a conditional covenant, made between God and the People of Israel at Sinai.

* Regarding Israel as a nation, I suggest you read such Scriptures as Romans 11:1-2a, and, Jeremiah 31:31-37:-

'I say then,
.. Hath God cast away His people? God forbid.
.... For I also am an Israelite,
...... of the seed of Abraham,
........ of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. '
(Romans 11:1-2a)

'Thus saith the LORD,
.. which giveth the sun for a light by day,
.... and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night,
...... which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
.. If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD,
.... then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD;
.. If heaven above can be measured,
.... and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
...... I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done,
........ saith the LORD.'
(Jeremiah 31:35-37)

* In other words, God will never, ever, cast off all the seed of Israel.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[FollowHim]

Hello @FollowHim,

I thank you for both these entries (replies#29,#30), which for some reason I missed along the way. Forgive me for not responding before now.
I join you in praising God for all that Christ has been made to us.

* The first thing you did in your first entry was to remark about my reference to:- 'a covenant relationship'.

- As you will know, a covenant is an agreement or contract entered into by two or more parties which contain certain conditions that must be fulfilled. An 'everlasting covenant' was made with Israel: which was typified by the offering of the 'shewbread' in the tabernacle on every Sabbath day (Leviticus 24:5-9). That is why I used the term when speaking of Israel for they were in 'a covenant relationship' with God, as you will know, on the basis of that covenant made with them by God at Sinai.​

* As you say, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are also in a relationship with God, through the union they have, by faith, with Christ Jesus their Lord: they are adopted as 'sons of God' (Ephesians 1:5), and have the right to call Him, 'Father' (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) . To them, He is, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ' (Ephesians 1:3). Believers are therefore in the wonderful position of having access into God's presence at all times, their welcome is assured, for they are His 'sons' (regardless of gender) in and through Christ Jesus their Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

* You have referred to several different points which are worthy of a study of their own, such as:-
'The Transfiguration':- (Mark 9:1-9 & Matthew 16:27-17-9; 2 Peter 1:16-18).
'What Paul had to say about the Holy Spirit'
'The filling of the Holy Spirit',
'Communion with the Most High',
'Believers being the Temple of God',
'The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth' and
'The Lord Jesus Christ as The True Vine' (John 15:1).

* Maybe we can discuss these at some time, 'FollowHim', but now my watch tells me that it is 12-40pm so I am going to bed.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

You look at these relationships as covenants. Sounds like a label.
How do these covenants affect you?

I see Jesus as the cornerstone of Israel, its final fulfilment and the beginning of the Kingdom of heaven on earth through the church.
It is the anointing in the Holy Spirit which is crucial to bring born from on High into the people of God, but many churches seem not to experience or know of the indwelling Holy Spirit in their hearts, or even preach about it.

 

[charity]

What do you believe it would look like for Jesus to redeem Israel?
Or what is your view of redemption?

Hello @Waiting on him,

You ask what I believe it would be like for Jesus to redeem Israel? Well the verses that come to mind for me are Jeremiah 31:31-34:-

'Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
.. that I will make a new covenant
.... with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
...... Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
........ in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
.......... which My covenant they brake,
............ although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
.. After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts,
.... and write it in their hearts;
...... and will be their God, and they shall be My People.
........ And they shall teach no more every man His neighbour,
.......... and every man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD:"
............ for they shall all know Me,
.............. from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
................ for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.'

* When are we told that the redemption of Israel is to take place?

'And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh.'
(Luke 21:27-28)

* What will it be like?

C'And it shall come to pass in that day,
.. that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David,
.. and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
.... the spirit of grace and of supplications:
...... and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced,
........ and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for His only son,
.......... and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,
as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.'
(Zechariah 12:9-11)

* I am not sure of the order or timing of these events, but I believe they will come to pass, for God has said so.
------------
* You also ask what my view of redemption is?

* The believer, who is trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, as their Saviour, is redeemed from sin and it's consequences (death), and will receive the redemption of their bodies in resurrection, for which they are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit. (see Romans 3:24; Romans 8:23; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 1:7; Ephesians 1:14; Ephesians 4:30; Colossians 1:14)

I hope I have understood you correctly, and have answered in a manner that meets your expectations.

Thank you,
In Christ Jesus,
Chris

 

[charity]

You look at these relationships as covenants. Sounds like a label.
How do these covenants affect you?

I see Jesus as the cornerstone of Israel, its final fulfilment and the beginning of the Kingdom of heaven on earth through the church.
It is the anointing in the Holy Spirit which is crucial to bring born from on High into the people of God, but many churches seem not to experience or know of the indwelling Holy Spirit in their hearts, or even preach about it.

Hello @FollowHim,

The fact that the children of Israel were in a covenant relationship with God, is a Biblical fact.

* You say that you believe Jesus to be the corner stone of Israel:-

'The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.'
(Psalm 118:22)

'Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures,

"The stone which the builders rejected,
the same is become the head of the corner:
this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?"​

Therefore say I unto you,
.. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you,
.... and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
...... And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken:
........ but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."
(Matthew 21:42-44)

* The generation of Israel to whom the Lord spoke in Matthew 21, was 'a wicked generation', and one which the men of Israel were urged 'repent' and 'save themselves' from (Acts 2:40). The Kingdom of God was taken from them, for they would reject their King (the Lord Jesus Christ): but the nation of Israel will one day produce fruits unto righteousness, for they will repent and receive their Messiah and King; and to that nation the Kingdom will be given, as prophesied by Isaiah in chapter 66:7-14, for the Lord will return, His Kingdom will come, and the times of refreshing will come from the presence of the Lord.

'Before she travailed, she brought forth;
before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
.. Who hath heard such a thing?
.... who hath seen such things?
...... Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
........ or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
.. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD:
.... shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her:
rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
.. That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations;
.... that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
For thus saith the Lord,
.. Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
.... and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream:
...... then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you;
.. and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
.... And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb:
...... and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward His servants,
........ and His indignation toward His enemies.'
(Isaiah 66:7-14)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello @Waiting on him,

You ask what I believe it would be like for Jesus to redeem Israel? Well the verses that come to mind for me are Jeremiah 31:31-34:-

'Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
.. that I will make a new covenant
.... with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
...... Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
........ in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
.......... which My covenant they brake,
............ although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
.. After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts,
.... and write it in their hearts;
...... and will be their God, and they shall be My People.
........ And they shall teach no more every man His neighbour,
.......... and every man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD:"
............ for they shall all know Me,
.............. from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
................ for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.'

* When are we told that the redemption of Israel is to take place?

'And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh.'
(Luke 21:27-28)

* What will it be like?

C'And it shall come to pass in that day,
.. that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David,
.. and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
.... the spirit of grace and of supplications:
...... and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced,
........ and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for His only son,
.......... and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,
as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.'
(Zechariah 12:9-11)

* I am not sure of the order or timing of these events, but I believe they will come to pass, for God has said so.
------------
* You also ask what my view of redemption is?

* The believer, who is trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, as their Saviour, is redeemed from sin and it's consequences (death), and will receive the redemption of their bodies in resurrection, for which they are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit. (see Romans 3:24; Romans 8:23; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 1:7; Ephesians 1:14; Ephesians 4:30; Colossians 1:14)

I hope I have understood you correctly, and have answered in a manner that meets your expectations.

Thank you,
In Christ Jesus,
Chris

Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Your perspective is confusing to me if we’ve put on Christ then we are Abraham’s seed, do you recall John B stating Jesus is able to raise up children to Abraham?

Isn’t that Israel?
Tecarta Bible

 

[quietthinker]

We are not talking about Moral law ,here.

Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

you are talking about this one

Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

You want Jesus who died on the cross, gave His life for many, to reject all He did, than keep you from dying by the very law you choose to be judged by.

He isnt getting back up on that cross for anyman.

That is the height of arrogance,

you speak gobbilty gook mjrhealth

 

[quietthinker]

Hello there, @quietthinker,

I can certainly, 'wrap my understanding around those things', as you say. However there is much that I disagree with.

* With respect to you, it is not correct to say that the covenants of the Old Testament were the same covenant repeated. No one who has read the accounts of them in the Old Testament could honestly say that. The only one that was repeated, was that made to Abraham, which was an everlasting, but unconditional covenant, made with and repeated to, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To whom the promise of God (or unconditional covenant) was given

* Also the New Covenant will be made with Israel, and will replace the Old Covenant, which though everlasting was a conditional covenant, made between God and the People of Israel at Sinai.

* Regarding Israel as a nation, I suggest you read such Scriptures as Romans 11:1-2a, and, Jeremiah 31:31-37:-

'I say then,
.. Hath God cast away His people? God forbid.
.... For I also am an Israelite,
...... of the seed of Abraham,
........ of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. '
(Romans 11:1-2a)

'Thus saith the LORD,
.. which giveth the sun for a light by day,
.... and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night,
...... which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
.. If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD,
.... then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD;
.. If heaven above can be measured,
.... and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
...... I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done,
........ saith the LORD.'
(Jeremiah 31:35-37)

* In other words, God will never, ever, cast off all the seed of Israel.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ok, let me start from another angle taking it a bite at a time and lets see if we can make some progress.
Perhaps we can start with the question of who is and what does Israel consist of. Does it consist of a geographical location in the middle east with bricks and mortar or is it about people?......Does it consist of those who came out of Egypt and went through the red sea?....Does it consist of those who cried for a King when God was their Sovereign? .....Does it consist of those who went into captivity to Babylon?....Does it consist of those who came out of captivity to Babylon?.....Does it consist of those in Jesus time?....Does it consist of those in Israel in 2020? or is there some other Israel?...... You tell me, who and what do you think Israel consists of?

 

[mjrhealth]

you speak gobbilty gook mjrhealth

Well if that is what you understand than that is what ill keep speaking,.

 

[charity]

Ok, let me start from another angle taking it a bite at a time and lets see if we can make some progress.
Perhaps we can start with the question of who is and what does Israel consist of. Does it consist of a geographical location in the middle east with bricks and mortar or is it about people?......Does it consist of those who came out of Egypt and went through the red sea?....Does it consist of those who cried for a King when God was their Sovereign? .....Does it consist of those who went into captivity to Babylon?....Does it consist of those who came out of captivity to Babylon?.....Does it consist of those in Jesus time?....Does it consist of those in Israel in 2020? or is there some other Israel?...... You tell me, who and what do you think Israel consists of?

Hello @quietthinker,

God knows very well those who comprise the members of the twelve tribes of Israel, He does not require DNA testing to know who they are, and where they are located. He will gather them all together ultimately: and His purpose in relation to them will be fulfilled. There are those who are back in the land, but many are still dispersed among the nations. At present they are in a Lo-ammi condition, 'Not My People', but that will not always be the case.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

There's no such thing as <a> New Covenant which is God's New Covenant, for God's Covenant which is everlastingly NEW, is the ONLY Covenant of His Grace. It is not <a> covenant among other covenants; it is the ONE Covenant God in the ETERNAL Council of the Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit once for all time covenanted in Christ Jesus for all generations of men, Jews and Gentiles. God cannot have more than one covenant or He must swear—covenant—, take oath, more than once, and why would God swear the Truth if He already swore the Truth... unless the first or the last covenant is not complete, is not final, not the whole Council of His Will and not the only Truth of God's Word?

 

[charity]

Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Your perspective is confusing to me if we’ve put on Christ then we are Abraham’s seed, do you recall John B stating Jesus is able to raise up children to Abraham?

Isn’t that Israel?
Tecarta Bible

Hello @Waiting on him,

In the OP, I said, 'I do not believe that the church which is the Body of Christ, being called out during this dispensation, is in a covenant relationship with God. For the new covenant, as with the old covenant will be made with Israel.'

* The church which is His (Christ's) body is, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all,' which came into existence after the nation of Israel had rejected their Messiah and King, not only in the land itself, but among the Jews of the dispersion too, which we have recorded in the gospels, and The Acts of the Apostles. [It was then that salvation was 'sent to the Gentiles' (Acts 28:28)]

* Paul was appointed it's Steward, and was given a revelation concerning it's administration at that time, which he made known by word of mouth to those who visited Him in his imprisonment, and also by means of the epistles that he wrote during that time. They are Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. The epistles written prior to that, though written for our learning, are not necessarily about us.

* During the period in which Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, and Hebrews were written, there was a believing remnant of Israel, and ten years on from Pentecost the door to the Kingdom was opened to believing Gentiles, who were grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, in order to stimulate growth, and bring life to an ailing tree.

* The hope of all at that time, was for Israel to repent and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, in response to God's call through Peter in Acts 3:18-20, so that the Lord may return and Israel as a nation fulfil it's divinely granted priestly role among the nations. However Israel, as we know, did not repent. Hence the need for the plan which had been 'hid in God' since before the world began (Ephesians 3:9 & Colossians 1:26), to be made known and come into it's own, concerning the church which is the body of Christ, which would go forward unto this present day. The day will come when Israel will once more have a prior position, but only God knows when that will take place, until then the Body of Christ is being called out and established.

* What you are saying in reference to Galatians 3, was true for that company of believers living during the Acts period. Whereas the Church which is the Body of Christ is independent of Israel as a nation, being comprised of both Jew and Gentile in one Body, in perfect equality and unity in Christ Jesus their Lord.

Praise God!

* All Scripture is 'for' us, but not all is 'about' us.

Thank you
I pray this does not add to your confusion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus identifies the cup at the last supper as the cup of the new covenant...

Jaaa, Roman Catholic grail type of cup covenant, beskonke lot.

Jesus saying "This is" is saying this EVENT AND PERSON AT THE HEAD OF IT, IS THE EVERLASTING ONLY NEW COVENANT OF GRACE ONCE FOR ALL COME REALISED AND TRUE IN EVENT AND PERSON OF JESUS THE SON OF GOD THE SON OF MAN.

 

[charity]

There's no such thing as <a> New Covenant which is God's New Covenant, for God's Covenant which is everlastingly NEW, is the ONLY Covenant of His Grace. It is not <a> covenant among other covenants; it is the ONE Covenant God in the ETERNAL Council of the Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit once for all time covenanted in Christ Jesus for all generations of men, Jews and Gentiles. God cannot have more than one covenant or He must swear—covenant—, take oath, more than once, and why would God swear the Truth if He already swore the Truth... unless the first or the last covenant is not complete, is not final, not the whole Council of His Will and not the only Truth of God's Word?

Hello @GerhardtEbersoehn,

With respect to you, the Bible contains several covenants which are 'everlasting' covenants. The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant, which was made by God with Israel at Sinai, to deny this is to contend with the very Scriptures themselves, and rob it's wording in relation to this subject of any meaning whatsoever.

In Christ Jesus
Chris