Not by works - but by faith

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Eternally Grateful

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Phariseeism? A label that is foreign to me. The pharisees were a Jewish sect relating to the law of Moses.
Nothing spoken here has been about being a jew or the law.

So putting a label on something without explaining what you actually mean is not helpful and suggests from my experience of others, just a way of being derogatory to people one does not like. The problem with fools, is they think themselves wise in their own eyes, and through a few phrases can abuse others with pointed comments that actually have no real meaning.

A false prophet denies Christs words and His way, the way of life, the straight path, the ways of the Kingdom.
Is this the path you are denying?
Phariseeism is a belief that we are saved by our works. By How good or morally upright we are. Or by religious traditional works.

It is alive and well today.
Not saying you are teaching or promoting it, Was just saying what you said described that thinking.
 

Eternally Grateful

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But redemption into what? Salvation into what? You are like a person who just wants to take a bus without knowing where the bus is going.

Grace fulfills the law...otherwise it isn't grace. faith establishes the law otherwise it isn't faith.

So you are trying to understand something spiritual with a religious reasoning that supports the flesh.

Grace is the power to walk as Jesus walked. No sin. God is holy and His will is that we would walk in holiness...as Jesus did.
We are saved from wrath, we are saved from the curse of the law. We are saved from an eternity in hell

I know what I am understanding and talking about

This thread is about HOW one is saved is i not? So why are you trying to insert works or good deeds into the equation? Did not paul say if anyone teach a different gospel. Something should be done?
 

Episkopos

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Justification by grace through faith is NOT a combination of faith and works. Obviously you don't understand this Gospel truth, even while you assume you are wiser than other posters and scoff at them. Read and study Romans chapter 4, then James chapter 2, then come back and tell us what is true and what is not.


False of course. We receive grace in order to do the works of heaven, or at least for works of righteousness for which we will be judged.

We are justified by walking in grace in order to fulfill the commandments of God. If we love God we will DO His commandments. But if you think grace is a pass on obedience then you are like the servant that buried his talent.
 

Episkopos

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We are saved from wrath, we are saved from the curse of the law. We are saved from an eternity in hell

I know what I am understanding and talking about

This thread is about HOW one is saved is i not? So why are you trying to insert works or good deeds into the equation? Did not paul say if anyone teach a different gospel. Something should be done?


But many believers who are saved from hell fire will be rejected into outer darkness. Judgment begins at the house of God. The truth is not just about eating sweets.

Allow the truth to sink into your mind and heart.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Don't you love HALF TRUTHs? I do! If it weren't for HALF TRUTHs, 3/4's of the posters in this Forum wouldn't have anything to contribute! They can't quote their pastors, because they're not reliable. And they can't quote Scripture, because they don't understand what they read, if they even read Scripture. So there'd be nothing for them to post.

But because we have so many HALF TRUTHs, we ALL get to participate. First the DECEPTION, and then the TRUTH. -- So here's the second HALF of what wasn't presented:

Are you ready for it? Hold on, it's coming ...

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.


There. Now you have the complete picture of FAITH and WORKS, for which neither one stands alone ...
Bobby Jo
Yet this does not say we are saved by faith plus works it just states a fact. If one CLAIMS to have faith yet does not even have 1 work. Can that type of DEAD faith save him?
Well of course not. Mere belief in Christ with no faith never saved anyone. Even demons believe. What good is it?
People who have True faith works. Not to get saved. Because they are saved
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Justification by grace through faith is NOT a combination of faith and works. Obviously you don't understand this Gospel truth, even while you assume you are wiser than other posters and scoff at them. Read and study Romans chapter 4, then James chapter 2, then come back and tell us what is true and what is not.
Amen James did not contradict Paul (romans 4 eph 1 and 2)
 

Eternally Grateful

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Faith is the starting point, Works is the evidence. They MUST be inherently intertwined. -- Christianity 101.


Bobby Jo
That’s saying we are saved by our works of righteousness

this just is not found in scripture

James is refuting licentiousness. A belief only apart from repentance and true faith gospel.
 

Enoch111

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But if you think grace is a pass on obedience then you are like the servant that buried his talent.
I have not even hinted at this. But you are not clear about the doctrine of justification by grace either. So as I already said, kindly read and study Romans 4, Romans 10, Ephesians 2, and other passages which present the doctrine of justification.

As to your bogus contention, here is the answer from Scripture:
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world...(Titus 2:11,12)

1 PETER 1

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

Eternally Grateful

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False of course. We receive grace in order to do the works of heaven, or at least for works of righteousness for which we will be judged.

We are justified by walking in grace in order to fulfill the commandments of God. If we love God we will DO His commandments. But if you think grace is a pass on obedience then you are like the servant that buried his talent.
If you think you are justified by walking, Your basically spitting on the cross of Christ, Because he could have stayed in heaven, and we could have saved ourselves

Grace is not a pass on obedience, do not put words in my mouth, Grace is based on the fact, we are UNABLE to be obedient enough to meet Gods standard (perfection)
 

Eternally Grateful

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But many believers who are saved from hell fire will be rejected into outer darkness. Judgment begins at the house of God. The truth is not just about eating sweets.

Allow the truth to sink into your mind and heart.
Wow man, You are out there

Hell is outer darkness

Its called the second death, ALL who have not been born again will suffer this judgment.

The truth has sunk in, It seems to me, you still think your worthy. That should scare you!
 

FollowHim

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Phariseeism is a belief that we are saved by our works. By How good or morally upright we are. Or by religious traditional works.

It is alive and well today.
Not saying you are teaching or promoting it, Was just saying what you said described that thinking.
Seems like an over simplification of something. The common use of this word does not have your meaning. It is therefore impossible to apply to someone as it could be a complement or an insult. A very limp slap I think, oooooo.
 
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FollowHim

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If you think you are justified by walking, Your basically spitting on the cross of Christ, Because he could have stayed in heaven, and we could have saved ourselves

Grace is not a pass on obedience, do not put words in my mouth, Grace is based on the fact, we are UNABLE to be obedient enough to meet Gods standard (perfection)
I am sorry. Who are you to say someone as a believer is spitting on the cross. No believer of any type would do this, and to suggest such a thing is deeply sad and absurd.
 

FollowHim

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Wow man, You are out there

Hell is outer darkness

Its called the second death, ALL who have not been born again will suffer this judgment.

The truth has sunk in, It seems to me, you still think your worthy. That should scare you!

This is a personal attack on someone. Why do you feel entitled to do this?

People share there deeply held beliefs, to be accepted as this, and respected.
I always have to earn the right to be heard. Everyone freely finds there way through, and certainly not by confrontation.
 

Episkopos

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Wow man, You are out there

Hell is outer darkness

Its called the second death, ALL who have not been born again will suffer this judgment.

The truth has sunk in, It seems to me, you still think your worthy. That should scare you!

That's not biblical at all. Outer darkness has no fire. Fire IS light. And you are just stuck with the religious traditions of men rather than actually looking deeper into the biblical narrative.



So what you should say is..."I can't tell the difference in the bible between hell and outer darkness." But light and darkness are not at all the same.
 

Episkopos

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If you think you are justified by walking, Your basically spitting on the cross of Christ, Because he could have stayed in heaven, and we could have saved ourselves

Grace is not a pass on obedience, do not put words in my mouth, Grace is based on the fact, we are UNABLE to be obedient enough to meet Gods standard (perfection)

..we weren't able before Christ. But you are not seeing the purpose of Jesus's coming to earth. He died and was resurrected to give us His life....a life that we can live in through grace. And then it is HIS power....not ours we live in. As in...no longer I,

You really need to go over the gospels again...and the whole NT ...and NOT look at it from a carnal viewpoint but instead with an open heart and mind that doesn't limit what God can do.

We can do ALL things IN Christ. And in Him is no sin.
 

Episkopos

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We are saved BY grace...not FOR grace. We are saved in order to do the works of Christ BY grace.

Grace ...not a free ride down the hill but the power and strength to climb up the hill. In His strength
 
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FollowHim

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We are saved BY grace...not FOR grace. We are saved in order to do the works of Christ BY grace.
Clearly someone does not love or respect another as a fellow believer in Christ. I have never read of one person claiming by obeying Jesus you are spitting on Him.

If we love Jesus we obey Him. How can anyone who understands language makes obedience into hatred.

Darkness blinds the heart to the hurt such an idea causes. It is a mind turning in strong emotion that overwhelms any sensitivity. The fruit of the Spirit is not at work here, on anything with understanding of scripture and God's will. God bless you, you encourage me dear brother
 

FollowHim

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I am confused

This is a thread on salvation. (Justification)

Why are we discussing sanctification?
Sanctification.
I die 5 minutes after being saved.
As far as God sees, the believer is pure and holy, so will enter heaven, cleansed and purified it Christ.
If sin can make us unclean, and being clean is part of our acceptance, then we need to walk in purity and faith.

If impurity and sin becomes our life, where is Jesus in us. So keeping us on the path, consistent and pure is sanctification, but this does not invalidate our position.

We down play God's work in us, and play up our failures, rather than working with our weaknesses. So unbelievers will always miss the victory, and hope one day it will arrive.

I praise God for His love and working, amen
 

mailmandan

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Yet this does not say we are saved by faith plus works it just states a fact. If one CLAIMS to have faith yet does not even have 1 work. Can that type of DEAD faith save him?
Well of course not. Mere belief in Christ with no faith never saved anyone. Even demons believe. What good is it?
People who have True faith works. Not to get saved. Because they are saved
Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but works are not the essence of faith or the means/basis by which we obtain salvation. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I am sorry. Who are you to say someone as a believer is spitting on the cross. No believer of any type would do this, and to suggest such a thing is deeply sad and absurd.
You just made my point, thank you

not everyone who claims to be believers are believers,

and yes, many of these professed believers spit on the cross. Whether you think so or not is not the issue