Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I can see this
but Phariseeism rejected Christ because they thought they were righteous already based upon their adherence to the WORKS of the law
hence religiosity
Not by works - but by faith
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but Phariseeism rejected Christ because they thought they were righteous already based upon their adherence to the WORKS of the law
hence religiosity
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
so Admiring I am guilty is a pass
On obedience?
I thought this was required for salvation and also a flaw the Jews refused to do hence they rejected Christ
again for all are winning and are falling short of the glory of God
unless your sinless. You fall short
is admitting this helpful or hurtful?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This is the second time I have heard this....can you show some scripture to show where those who suffer the second death are not In hell?
Those who suffer the second death WOULD be in hell. But in the future, they will be resurrected. But in the future, they, and hell, will be thrown into the lake of fire and if a mortal being is thrown into the lake of fire, that is the second death.
The second death is more tolerable than being cast into outer darkness, as Jesus said that concerning some men, it would be more tolerable for Sodom than for them.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am not seeing this
a nonbeliever who dies goes to hades
at the end they will be delivered to Jesus for the great white throne
they all will suffer the second death of which there is no return
it will be worse for them they had truth in there hands and rejected it and get to
Contemplate that fact for eternity
thise in sodom and gemorah know they deserve it so it will Not be as bad
You have it backwards. Those who will be consigned to Hell will firstly be resurrected, then cast into the Lake of Fire. This is called the resurrection of damnation.
Yes, some men go to hell. You seem to think I am saying no men go to hell. Hell and death eventually get thrown into the lake of fire and that is the second death. There is a fate worse than the 2nd death. It is to wander forever in outer darkness.
It does confuse me to think of Satan and his demons because they seem to be eternal beings and have eternity in them somehow, apart from God. But men are not born eternal beings. For us, we don't have eternal life apart from being born of the Spirit.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No sis I never said this, Please try to read what I am saying.
The lake of fire is hell. It is where the soul never dies. But the fie is never quenched.
There are only 2 places for eternity.
Heaven - for those who are adopted by God into his family and born again
Hell or the lake of fire. Or eternal darkness (all names for the same place) for those who reject Gods provision, and decide they will either deny God exists. Or they will go their own way (sadly many think they are going the right way. But are mistaken. Jesus tells us of these people)
If the lake of fire is hell, then why does God say that in the end, hell will be thrown into the lake of fire and then death will be cast into the lake of fire?
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
There are three different hell's referred to throughout the Bible: Hades, tartarus and Gehenna. Tararus is the prison designed to bind angels, which I believe to be the bottomless pit in revelation. Hades is the present dwelling place of all departed spirits according to the Lexicon, which is the "hell" that gets thrown into Gehenna, or the lake of fire. The lake of fire is hell, the confusion comes from which hell we are talking about. The only way to figure that out is to research the original words being used in the verses.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He says hades will cast into the lake of fire.
The Greek word used in rev is hades.
Hell comes from the Greek word gahenna and I saw Tartarus in another passage concerning the flood
Now in your view God will torment nonbelievers in the lake of fire forever, because they did not accept Jesus.
But what if they never heard of Jesus, or the gospel or anything? What about babies, who died soon after birth? Or those disabled, or have a communication disorder which means relationships etc are not possible? Are all of these in the lake of fire for all eternity, so they can contemplate something they were incapable of understanding in life if they even knew it?
The only just version, is destruction, literal complete destruction.
Some say, oh, this is not fair, atheists get their hope, eternal death. The sad reality is if you have ever seen someone after a nervous breakdown there is nothing left to preserve. It is just weeping and gnashing of teeth. We now give people strong sedatives which mean there true condition is hidden.
Now torment is for those who align with the beast. True open rebellion without ceasing. Now that is real trauma.
When one is happy, secure and well fed, it is difficult to imagine seeing a Holy God who blows apart everything one stood for or did in life. When one wakes up in the morning and the bright sunlight streams in, this is something like how stunning it will be, except our unresolved internal conflicts will be released. We either will stand on the rock, or fall with a great crash. Gods judgement is not like school homework.
The teachers of the Law rejected Jesus because they did not love God.
42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God.
Luke 11:42
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 "I do not accept praise from men,
42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
John 5:39-42
Everyone who does not have the love of God in their hearts, rejects Jesus and His way, because to them it is impossible as their very hearts cannot obey the 1st command "Love the Lord you God with all you heart, strength and mind."
It is interesting that those who do not understand love flowing from their hearts can neither empathise in praise and love of Jesus or know the role in maturity of knowing good and evil.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil
Heb 5:14
Confusion comes in as people use the word "hell" for both hades/sheol, and the lake of fire.
Hades or sheol, the unseen, speaks of where people go after death, the lake of fire being the place of eternal judgement.
Hades gives up it's dead, and then hades is cast into the lake of fire. Those who were in hades are judged, and all whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire.
This idea of outer darkness being for God's children . . . I hardly know what to say, but that this has nothing to do with the God I know, not as He's shown Himself to me. I certainly find it nowhere in the Bible.
Much love!
Hades or sheol, the unseen, speaks of where people go after death, the lake of fire being the place of eternal judgement.
Hades gives up it's dead, and then hades is cast into the lake of fire. Those who were in hades are judged, and all whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire.
This idea of outer darkness being for God's children . . . I hardly know what to say, but that this has nothing to do with the God I know, not as He's shown Himself to me. I certainly find it nowhere in the Bible.
Much love!
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Exactly, I pointed this all out before long ago, yet people continue to peddle this obvious falsehood. I'm betting part of the reason is due to their need to portray God as this hell fire, despotic being, without mercy, when he is described as nothing of the kind.
It is interesting how demons torture people. Why is this?
It is not scriptural. Job is tested when on earth to prove his worth.
Interestingly people's dreams, visions are full of torment, in all faiths. So this is a non Christian belief, something the enemy wants to exist.
It maybe a human expression of pain and hurt from guilt. Many dreams, visions are emotional representations of our own trauma.
Across all societies guilt and debt matter. So it must be part of how we are made. In Christ we see the Kingdom and freedom from this torment, amen
What I've seen is that those who teach this then become the arbiters of who will and who won't be in this outer darkness. I wonder is there pride behind it?
Their portrayal of God is more of themselves, despotic, merciless, loveless.
And, that's my primary objection to this idea, not just that it's not Scriptural, but the picture it paints of God, unbelievable!
Much love!
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
If I were the enemy, having people mistake their dreams of eternal torment and hell fire is exactly what I'd want, to make God appear as some sadistic despot, no different than any viscous dictator that ever existed in history. It has certainly done more harm than good when trying to convert more people to the faith, so its doing what its intended to do.
Their pride is 100% behind it. People tend to get a big head when they think they have some sort of special place in life above others.
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