Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
grace is receiving something you have not earned

people who receive grace are changed by it

"Grace is receiving something you have not earned." Yes, Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners. Therefore, before Christ, grace was unmerited favor.

"people who receive grace are changed by it" Yes, but now grace is no longer unmerited favor because now God is inside of us making us worthy to be called children of God 1 John 3:1. Now grace is the power of God. (This is seen in advanced studies).

Heb 10: 14 Hebrews 10:14 (NKJV): For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Sanctification is a process

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
and being sanctified are not processes. It happens when we first repent and Jesus gives us His Spirit that makes us dead to sin. Most people believe in the process theory that it takes a lifetime to overcome all sin. What a slap in the face to Jesus to was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin 1 John 3:5; and to whom the Son makes free (of sin) is free indeed John 8:34-36

Hebrews 10:26-31
6 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you see that some things can be of faith, and yet still be a trespass and you just don't know it?
I don't mean that some things can arise from your feelings of confidence that it's OK. That's just error. Faith that does not work is dead faith. Faith that produces dead works is a contradiction. Sin, of any description, is never produced out of the new creation, alive to God in faith. If "in Christ is no sin", then let that be completely and perfectly true.

We are either sinners or children of God, but we can't be both. This is a point we disagree on.
Only because my definition of sin includes all sins, and yours does not. Our disagreement isn't over what acts we might or might not do, rather, our disagreement is over definitions. At least how I see it...

Then again, in our nature, we are new creatures, the spirit children of God, not sinners.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't mean that some things can arise from your feelings of confidence that it's OK. That's just error. Faith that does not work is dead faith. Faith that produces dead works is a contradiction. Sin, of any description, is never produced out of the new creation, alive to God in faith. If "in Christ is no sin", then let that be completely and perfectly true.

Again, it is talking about sins unto death. Sins of LAWlessness. WILLFUL sin.

You say, "Sin, of any description, is never produced out of the new creation, alive to God in faith."

Read 1 John 1:7 Even if we walk in the light (Spirit), the blood of Jesus is still cleansing us of sin. What kind? The Spirit would not lead us to commit murder, or adultery or lie or do anything against our super-sensitized Spirit-filled conscience. So what sins do we commit in the Spirit and not even know about to confess? What must we do to have these unknown sins continually cleansed?
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then again, in our nature, we are new creatures, the spirit children of God, not sinners.

Yes. Those who abide in Christ are children of God, and do not commit willful sins that they know not to do, but do them anyway, called rebellion.
 

Paul Christensen

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2020
3,068
1,619
113
76
Christchurch
www.personal-communication.org.nz
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
That's not how I read this:
21 Then this message came to me from the Lord: 2 “Son of man, turn and face Jerusalem and prophesy against Israel and her sanctuaries. 3 Tell her, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am your enemy, O Israel, and I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people—the righteous and the wicked alike. 4 Yes, I will cut off both the righteous and the wicked! I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from south to north.

I also don't go for that whole "oh that's only about Israel" stuff every time its something unpleasant.

If He cut off Israel, He can cut off the grafted in branches. I think it's frightening nonsense and stupendous pride to think we are now bulletproof.
We have to remember that what was said here is for us and not necessarily to us.

It is to show that when a people turn away from God to idols, then judgment will follow, either in this life or the next. Also, we must remember that under the Mosaic Law, blessings came when people did what was right, and cursing came when people "blew it".

But this is not written for or to genuinely converted Christian believers. Whereas the unconverted Israelites under the Law were required to keep the Law and observe the animal sacrifices for sin, their hearts were not transformed, and they were still dead in their sins, and for those who were going to be saved and not lost, were those who maintained faith in the Messiah to come, and so kept the Law to the best of their ability, remained faithful to God, and observed the animal sacrifices on the God-approved altar.

But conversion to Christ involves a total transformation of the heart and the spirit being made alive. It is a transformation from the inside that works itself out through commensurate actions. This means that a converted Christian hates sin and loves God from his or her heart, so there needs to be no anxiety about losing ones standing with Christ, unless people make a conscious, knowing, and deliberate choice to reject Christ and declare themselves atheist.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Again, it is talking about sins unto death. Sins of LAWlessness. WILLFUL sin.

You say, "Sin, of any description, is never produced out of the new creation, alive to God in faith."

Read 1 John 1:7 Even if we walk in the light (Spirit), the blood of Jesus is still cleansing us of sin. What kind? The Spirit would not lead us to commit murder, or adultery or lie or do anything against our super-sensitized Spirit-filled conscience. So what sins do we commit in the Spirit and not even know about to confess? What must we do to have these unknown sins continually cleansed?
When we walk in the Spirit I don't think we commit any sins. If we are living in love for others we don't sin, love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Some different perspectives . . .

Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin.

The Spirit would not lead us to do anything - anything - that is against love for God and others. Nothing. Not a cross thought. Not an accidental failure to overstep our bounderies. The fruit of the Spirit is self control. If you are walking in the Spirit, you are self-controlled.

Aren't you?

Much love!
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Luke 21:34-36 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape
all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So do you believe this prophecy proves a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church?
If so you are very deceived.

What does verse 35 say? The Day of Wrath will come upon everyone.
Verse 34 says we must be careful, or that Day will catch us unawares. Therefore; if we do carefully study and are aware of the signs, we can know what will happen on that Day and the season of its coming.
But, either way, that Day will come and we will be here to experience it.

Verse 35 says 'escape all these things'. This cannot mean a removal away from, as that is a direct contradiction of the previous 2 verses.
What it does mean, is told to us in many prophesies, of the Lord's protection during that terrible Day. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 23 & 91, Isaiah 30:26b, +

Let me ask you this; during the great tribulation, only those with the mark of the beast will be able to buy & sell, right?

Christians are not going to have that mark. If they did, the warning falls flat because they will go to the lake of fire no matter what.

So the warning applies to the times we are living in now when believers can be tempted to surfeit, get drunk, and be overcharged for the cares of this life when that "day" takes believers unaware. This does not apply to the end of the great tribulation when the armies of the remaining 2/3rds parts of the world will be marching unto Jerusalem. Not sure how any one can be caught unaware when that happens at the end of the great tribulation.

So the time to be ready as found abiding in Him is now and not only that, but be willing to go to as Jesus warned the cares of this life will be a snare towards believers.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What about a brother who is living in dishonest and refuses to repent? And a brother who is holding a grudge? A little inner hatred? A brother who still lusts after that other girl?

Who would actually be taken in a partial rapture? The unrepentant adulterer at heart? Who once a year sees that person at the reunion, and every time falls into lust?

The person who just can't stand that fellow, and is a murderer at heart? The thief who burglarizes every night? The thief who always takes home the scratch pad from the bank?

I think this idea that some of us are a different catagory of believer isn't correct. A Christian is someone who has repented, aren't they? What does metanoia mean? Is it about the mind, or the behavior?

The drug addict, who is saved, but only for the past week, whose body Screams for their fix? And so off they go, they don't know what else to do . . . Left behind?

How do you see these things?

Is it just a vague threat over the heads of God's children? Fly right or I'll toss you into the Great Tribulation to be stung by locust things!

Much love!

If your hope for living as His is in the Lord and trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to help you lay aside every weight & sin, you have nothing to worry about.

But if a believer is not hoping in Him for help in abiding in Him daily, then it is no wonder why Jesus says only a few will find Him for all the way Home.

We are called to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ and nobody seems to understand that running that race is not for obtaining salvation, but for the high prize of our calling to be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House at the rapture event.

Those left behind still has His seal and that foundation laid by Jesus Christ but the works of wood, stubble, and hay that defiles the temple of God as in works of iniquity that denies Him, is why He is denying them access to the Marriage Supper as in disqualified for why there are empty seats there.

There will aso be empty seats because some believers will be overcharged with the cares of this life to wind up like Lot's wife and not want to leave, having their "treasures" on earth and even loving others more than Jesus to not leave them behind when He calls.

The problem here is that you are not understanding why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. If Paul did not bring his body under subjection, he said he could become a castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 and not just lose the reward of crowns. Paul did not say he will lose salvation, but to be disqualified by Him to not attend the Marriage Supper in heaven in His honor as a castaway. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm of course not advocating sinful behavior if that's what you are saying.

But I'm saying that God accepts us not based on our behavior, but based on Jesus' righteousness. Some of us aren't more acceptible then others, we are all accepted in Christ alone. Not because I've been better or worse behaved.

I think I'm going in circles here, so maybe not much more to say on this topic.

Much love!

If God commands a church to excommunicate a believer living in sin, in order to hold the feast of fellowship in sincerity and in truth, then what do you think Jesus will do as the Bridegroom for the Marriage Supper in Heaven?

Those left behind are still saved; but disqualified to participate in the firstfruits of the resurrection.

Those living in sin now can still call on Him for help to discern the weights & lay them aside as well as the sin in running that race with Him for the high prize of our calling to be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ to all readers that believe in Him.............

If any body out there is living in sin, if you do not want to be left behind, you better go before that throne of grace now for not only for forgiveness but His help to lay aside all provision for the flesh ( the weights ) and the sin that comes with them and to help you set your mind on good things and to have your heart on the treasure above and not on the earth.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When we walk in the Spirit I don't think we commit any sins. If we are living in love for others we don't sin, love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Some different perspectives . . .

Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin.

The Spirit would not lead us to do anything - anything - that is against love for God and others. Nothing. Not a cross thought. Not an accidental failure to overstep our bounderies. The fruit of the Spirit is self control. If you are walking in the Spirit, you are self-controlled.

Aren't you?

Much love!

Then why is that mentioned in 1 John 1:7?
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit.
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin.

Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin. (Scriptural) 1 John 3, John 8:34-36
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit. (Heresy)
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin. (Heresy)
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin. (Scriptural) 1 John 3, John 8:34-36
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit. (Heresy)
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin. (Heresy)
I’ve known thousands of Christians throughout my life, although I’ve never actually met you personally, I believe your the only one who alleges they don’t sin?

How is this possible?
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we don't sin. (Scriptural) 1 John 3, John 8:34-36
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we are not guilty of sins we commit. (Heresy)
Cleanses us from sin, that is, we do not suffer the after-effects of sin. (Heresy)
You state that @marks is speaking (Heresy) yet scripture states that the wages of sin is death, yet those who are in Christ will never die. Do you believe this?
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You state that @marks is speaking (Heresy) yet scripture states that the wages of sin is death, yet those who are in Christ will never die. Do you believe this?

Read Romans 6 in context. We are dead to sin. But we can still choose to be a slave to sin which means death, or be a slave to righteousness and live. Those reformists who believe we still have our sin, but it is merely covered and teach this are teaching heresy.
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Read Romans 6 in context. We are dead to sin. But we can still choose to be a slave to sin which means death, or be a slave to righteousness and live. Those reformists who believe we still have our sin, but it is merely covered and teach this are teaching heresy.
Paul says here that with his flesh he serves sin?

Romans 7:25 KJV
[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Tecarta Bible
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God's word tells us what believers will be raptured!

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.