Regeneration before or after saving faith

[SovereignGrace]

Thats not being born again

Born again (regeneration) happens because God has drown people to itself and helped them apart from the human spirit to understand the gospel where they can make a choice o say yes or no.

Man doesn’t need God to help them say no. That’s already built in by the fall of Adam. :)

 

[SovereignGrace]

World does not mean every individual.

If during the Superbowl the commentator says "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that mean literally every individual is watching the game? Of course not.

What about 1 John 2:15? If we love the world then the love of God is not in us. If we love everybody w/o exception then God’s love is not in us?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He said earlier, “All the Father gives me...”. That’s not just those living then but all that the Father had given Him. Later on in John 17 He prayed 20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.” So, He was not only praying for His sheep then, but for His sheep that would be saved later. Same thing with John 6:39-40. That includes all believers of all time, not just those living in the time of the Christ’s ministry.

Anyone who sees and believes.

As written, there will people who see yet do not believe. Just like many of his disciples there who walked wiht him no more. They saw. But they did not believe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly. But man in his unregenerate state will never bow the knee to Him. He hates Him, is hostile with Him, is at enmity(has an ill-will towards)with Him. That’s exactly what Romans 8:5-9 avers. Those who bow are those He humbled. :)

The tax collector was in an unregenerate stated. That’s WHY he Got on his knees, He say his sinfulness, and repented. It was after this that he went home justified.

The judaism was in an unregeneratove state also. But was puffed up in pride thinking he was worthy of Gods love, so never recieved the gift. Or called out

 

[Eternally Grateful]

World does not mean every individual.

If during the Superbowl the commentator says "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that mean literally every individual is watching the game? Of course not.

World does not earn just the elect.

If God wanted us to think only the elect. He would have used that term. Just like he never used the word baptize, and we should not as many do think Jesus spoke of water baptism. He did not use the world elect. So we should not assume or add that this is what he was talking about

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Pio[d

Man doesn’t need God to help them say no. That’s already built in by the fall of Adam. :)

yep

but it is his will that NONE should perish but all should come to life.

He is a loving God.. Loving all his creation. He did not create them to send them to hell.

 

[Enoch111]

So you accomplished some feats to earn a gift?

Did you not read what is clearly shown in Scripture? No one earns or merits salvation or the grace of God (Romans 4). But all must respond to the Gospel with repentance and faith, in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of Christ Himself (the book of Acts).

FIRST REPENTANCE AND REMISSION OF SINS
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

THEN THE GIFT OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

And only then can a sinner be regenerated and become a child of God (Titus 3:4-7).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If people don't respond the how can God move their heart to conversion?

I am thinking Ezk36:25-27 has already answered it for us
I believe Ezk 36 ,do you?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Pio[d

yep

but it is his will that NONE should perish but all should come to life.

He is a loving God.. Loving all his creation. He did not create them to send them to hell.

It is the will of God that multitudes perish.
Your statement is not found in scripture anywhere.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Thats not being born again

Born again (regeneration) happens because God has drown people to itself and helped them apart from the human spirit to understand the gospel where they can make a choice o say yes or no.

Sorry my friend. What you are describing is the unbiblical idea know as previent grace which is not found In the bible.
I described the new birth biblically.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am thinking Ezk36:25-27 has already answered it for us
I believe Ezk 36 ,do you?

Yes I do. And God promised he would restore them to the land their fathers had.

Ezekiel 36:28–32 (NKJV): Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

And of course, Lev 26 tells us WHY they are restored. Because they repented. And confessed their sin.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Yes I do. And God promised he would restore them to the land their fathers had.

Ezekiel 36:28–32 (NKJV): Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

And of course, Lev 26 tells us WHY they are restored. Because they repented. And confessed their sin.

The NT. Actually gives the correct application of these texts in in3, mt2:43

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is the will of God that multitudes perish.
Your statement is not found in scripture anywhere.

I will let Gods word speak for itself.

2 Peter 3:9 [Full Chapter]
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The NT. Actually gives the correct application of these texts in in3, mt2:43

God does not go back on his word.

I would take God at his word. And not true to change what he said.

If God promised it would happen. It will..

Thats why we have such a great faith, because God is trustworthy.

If God is unfaithful. Then we may as well go find another source to place our faith in,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry my friend. What you are describing is the unbiblical idea know as previent grace which is not found In the bible.
I described the new birth biblically.

Sorry my friend

What I am talking abut is the fact.

1. We are dead because of tress-passes and sins.
2. We have been made alive in Christ, having been forgiven of all tresspasses and sin.

Do I need to post the passage or do you remember it now?

Grace is grace. Unmerited. Have no idea where you get this “prevent” from.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I will let Gods word speak for itself.

2 Peter 3:9 [Full Chapter]
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance

Posting a link to a chapter doesn't necessitate that you understand it or handle it correctly; 2 Timothy 2:15. Once you get to the verse? Well, you take it out of context.

Every. Single. Time. :)

But you have to do this because your teachings are outside of Scripture.

I'm always amazed how you absolutely cannot see context, and who exactly Peter is referring to. He began addressing them, and the same ones, from the beginning of his epistle and is still talking about a Biblical doctrinal phrase that you loathe: "the elect."

God will save every single one he has elected by his own purpose and will Ephesians 1, not their will; James 1:18; John 1:13 and no more than these will be saved. These he patiently awaits to come to be in time, then he saves them all on his own.

It is duly noted that in 2 Peter 1:1 he already immediately goes against your teaching proving faith is a gift we obtained. Jesus himself goes against your teaching stating that the flesh is no help at all, John 6:63, yet you go contrary to the LORD there and claim it does. 2 Peter 1:10 must be really scary, he talks right there to this same audience throughout and calls them elect and called.

It's all over the Bible, the glory and power and majesty and free will of God to elect whom he wills, and pass over others.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Posting a link to a chapter doesn't necessitate that you understand it or handle it correctly; 2 Timothy 2:15. Once you get to the verse? Well, you take it out of context.

Every. Single. Time. :)

But you have to do this because your teachings are outside of Scripture.

I'm always amazed how you absolutely cannot see context, and who exactly Peter is referring to. He began addressing them, and the same ones, from the beginning of his epistle and is still talking about a Biblical doctrinal phrase that you loathe: "the elect."

God will save every single one he has elected by his own purpose and will Ephesians 1, not their will; James 1:18; John 1:13 and no more than these will be saved. These he patiently awaits to come to be in time, then he saves them all on his own.

It is duly noted that in 2 Peter 1:1 he already immediately goes against your teaching proving faith is a gift we obtained. Jesus himself goes against your teaching stating that the flesh is no help at all, John 6:63, yet you go contrary to the LORD there and claim it does. 2 Peter 1:10 must be really scary, he talks right there to this same audience throughout and calls them elect and called.

It's all over the Bible, the glory and power and majesty and free will of God to elect whom he wills, and pass over others.

We been through this in the other chat room

Your just as wrong here as you were there.

God does not create people to send to hell. He is a loving God. And if he is to PROVE his love, he must offer all people his love,

Otherwise, He is a respector of persons.

But hey, If you want to puff yourself up as special or chosen.

Feel free

I refuse to puff myself up. I am on my knees,, Because I KNOW where I would be if not for Grace.

 

[reformed1689]

World does not earn just the elect.

If God wanted us to think only the elect. He would have used that term. Just like he never used the word baptize, and we should not as many do think Jesus spoke of water baptism. He did not use the world elect. So we should not assume or add that this is what he was talking about

So what does world mean? It means all people groups.

 

[reformed1689]

but it is his will that NONE should perish but all should come to life.

If that were the case, then God isn't powerful enough to accomplish his will.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So what does world mean? It means all people groups.

It means the world

It can also mean children if Satan