The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[mjrhealth]

What do you think of this video?

So we see am a sinners telling another sinner that he is sinning, how is that different to you telling sinners that they are sinning just like you do, something about that log in your eye, oh than you might be that "perfect" christian. If you believe that because Disagree with you I am not saved, man you have a lot to learn.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So we see am a sinners telling another sinner that he is sinning, how is that different to you telling sinners that they are sinning just like you do, something about that log in your eye, oh than you might be that "perfect" christian. If you believe that because Disagree with you I am not saved, man you have a lot to learn.

That's just the point. We are all sinners, you and me both. And you and me are lying, thieving, blaspheming, adulterers at heart, as we both are, to be honest, then in our natural state will be found guilty at the judgment and will go to hell. So if the gospel you believed didn't include that, then you may be trusting in a false gospel. It's like a doctor giving cancer treatment to a patient whom he has neglected to tell he has the disease, so the patient refuses the treatment because he doesn't know why he needs it. A an airplane passenger who doesn't know the plane is about to crash refusing to put on a parachute that will save him when he has to jump.

So if you don't know what you need to be saved from, then your religious foundation is faulty, based on a faulty gospel which might not save you at the judgment.

 

[mjrhealth]

That's just the point. We are all sinners, you and me both. And you and me are lying, thieving, blaspheming, adulterers at heart, as we both are, to be honest, then in our natural state will be found guilty at the judgment and will go to hell. So if the gospel you believed didn't include that, then you may be trusting in a false gospel. It's like a doctor giving cancer treatment to a patient whom he has neglected to tell he has the disease, so the patient refuses the treatment because he doesn't know why he needs it. A an airplane passenger who doesn't know the plane is about to crash refusing to put on a parachute that will save him when he has to jump.

So if you don't know what you need to be saved from, then your religious foundation is faulty, based on a faulty gospel which might not save you at the judgment.

The problem is as I stated, if you show them Christ they will see who HE is, and they will know by Him who they are, but you dont you got it all backwards like so much of christianity, all out to condemn the world, makes them feel good.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The problem is as I stated, if you show them Christ they will see who HE is, and they will know by Him who they are, but you dont you got it all backwards like so much of christianity, all out to condemn the world, makes them feel good.

So, how are you going to share the gospel with an atheist who doesn't believe that either God or Jesus exists, and the Bible is just another book?

 

[FollowHim]

WelI wasnt saved from the law, as it had no jurisdiction over me, or is that what you dont get, you insist on putting people under the law, and hanging a noose around there necks, Christ doesnt need to condemn, "christians" are condemning the world and them,selves all by them selves. But than was it not you who seed you need to know God in the bible, well God is a God of the living not the dead, Christ is alive and avaliable to all who seek Him, I know the "living word" Jesus Christ, and the God of Isaac, Jacob and Israel.
Condemn them you do yourself,

The words "I wasnt saved from the law" comes from a world where hurt, pain, death are external to life and we can do what we like with no consequences. Unfortunately this is the virtual world of computer games not real life.

Hurt, pain and death is the real world, and the law acts as a guide to the way of life and the Kingdom.
It is also odd to suggest a speaker is hanging people, when it is Gods judgement seat that condemns sinners to just punishment.
And after the punishment is served to be destroyed in the lake of fire for all eternity.

Only those who believe in Jesus and walk in His ways will be saved.

All this is simply the gospel.
Paul described himself as not under the law because he was no longer a sinful man but a redeemed saint.
The law is for the lawless, because they do not understand or live the way of love.

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:24-25

14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbour as yourself."
Gal 5:14

21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Cor 9:21

We are not free but slaves to righteousness. It is not a freedom that says we can do anything, but rather that tells us the true consequences of our actions so desires to serve love and need than domination and selfishness.

 

[mjrhealth]

So, how are you going to share the gospel with an atheist who doesn't believe that either God or Jesus exists, and the Bible is just another book?

Well have you not read this forum, most christians dont know who God is or who Christ is, and all they see is this man Jesus in a book, most because of religion and bad teaching are afraid of God and Christ, because someone told them how bad they are, that is fear not faith. And the bible is just another book, without the Spirit of God, Read this forum 99% of it is purely mens understanding.

I read the bible i know 10 languages, and yet they still know nothing.

Do you know Christ, or is it you read the bible and only know "about" Him. My Sheep hear my voice and I know them and they know me. When one knows Christ one doesnt go around condemning the world, thats the devils job.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well have you not read this forum, most christians dont know who God is or who Christ is, and all they see is this man Jesus in a book, most because of religion and bad teaching are afraid of God and Christ, because someone told them how bad they are, that is fear not faith. And the bible is just another book, without the Spirit of God, Read this forum 99% of it is purely mens understanding.

I read the bible i know 10 languages, and yet they still know nothing.

Do you know Christ, or is it you read the bible and only know "about" Him. My Sheep hear my voice and I know them and they know me. When one knows Christ one doesnt go around condemning the world, thats the devils job.

I don't think you would even try to witness to atheists because you know that you would have nothing useful to tell them. Also you would have no success with homosexuals or anyone from other religions either because they would reject the Christ you are trying to present to them and you would make no sense to them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Simple logic denies it - according to your bizarre formula, if a believer (faith) performs good works, he is no longer a believer!

How do good works negate faith, exactly?

well see here we are

You prove a few things

1. you don't read a word I say, Multiple times I have said there is no such things as faith apart from works. I even made the words larger and highlighted them so you can not deny I said them
2. Since you do not read what I say, You make simple errors in reasoning here, By claiming I would say something I never have said, in fact, you would never even contemplate saying it,
3. Since you do say it, you show you have need of re-evaluate your own belief, since you are tryign to defend it so hard you start to ignore what others say, and in turn bear false witness against them

simple logic says, that If I do not believe there is such a thing as faith apart from works. then in my view EVERYONE who has true saving faith in christ WILL WORK.

so if I think that everyone who has true saving has works, then how does work negate faith? and how could you possibly come to the conclusion you have come to?

You see my friend, You are responding with a programed response. a response you have been taught. Because we have heard it so many times, and see it so many times, It can not come from induvidual thinking, it has to be programed into your thinking. yes, you all use it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What you call "he catholicized version" is the original Christian version, which was accepted for 1500 years ... until Protestant heretics mutilated the canon.

the jews accepted the OT and Talmud for quite awhile to as the authoritative word of scripture

We see where we got them. Using history to prove ones religion as truth failed for them, who says it will work for you?

its funny how you both make the same mistakes and same arguments. The only thing you really differ is in your sacramental system

 

[Joseph77]

its funny how you both make the same mistakes and same arguments.

.... except Jesus rebuked them both.... the false teachers / false gospel/ condemned billions of souls ......

Jesus brought Truth, Jesus Is Truth. God Provides Thru Jesus Salvation.... Salvation not provided in those false systems.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is the "context of who James wrote to and why"?

hearers only and not doers. People who CLAIMED to have faith, But had no (zero zip nada) works. can this "type" f faith save them?

If Paul said that those who are saved by GRACE through faith APART FROM WORKS. If he said that Those who are saved by that grace WILL PERFORM WORKS, then is someone who does NOT have the works paul said they WOULD have have the type of saving faith called for?

James said they are hearers only, not doers. they are deceived. As apposed to those who are true hearers and believers, as they are doers of the word. He claims they believe, and that's fine, Even demons believe, But are demons saved by true living faith in God? Of course not, They believe in God, but they do not have faith in him, which is why they left in the first place.

its amazing you put mere believers in God, equal to demons, as people who have or ever had saving faith.

James said their faith was dead.

so tell me, can a person who has DEAD FAITH. be saved?

here is the fact, they do not have works, BECAUSE THEIR FAITH HAS NO LIFE, if it did, they would have work. they would not be perfect. Yet they would have works. Because they have LIVING FAITH

in reality, their CLAIMED FAITH was false. they never had faith to begin with, proven by the fact they NEVER HAD WORKS. and still lived like the word. Hearers of the word. not doers. self deceived people. who think because they probably said some sinners prayer or somethign, they are saved, and can live however they want.
news flash. they are just as lost as religious people who think they must work to earn their salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Repentance is "works", so now you're preaching salvation by faith and works - which according to you is salvation by works. It seems to me that your theology is a confused mess.

no no no, repentance is not works.

Repentance is the work of God, He changes us, He teaches us, He brings us to faith

I did not earn my salvation by repenting, that's laughable man!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No He did me a favour by making me one, I could never do it myself, are you crazy, and by the way, He showed me who He was, not what I am, and so because I saw who HE was ,I gave up on myself, because when I looked at Him and than me, all I could see was a man who needed a savior, He didnt come to condemn us but to save us,

I believe God showed me both

He bankrupted my soul, by showing me how evil I was, and then showed how perfect and glorious he was, but also how loving he was. That he would give himself for my sin.

 

[Joseph77]

hearers only and not doers. People who CLAIMED to have faith, But had no (zero zip nada) works.

James said they are hearers only, not doers. they are deceived.

James said their faith was dead.

Perhaps you are mis-reading James? Or do you agree with James >>

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Perhaps you are mis-reading James? Or do you agree with James >>

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance."

do you believe anyone in every church is saved?

James wrote a letter to those tribes, and many were his brothers and sisters

But to think they all were saved, would be a mistake on our part. Many parts of scripture are misinterpreted because we have this false concept that everyone reading or written to were true believers.

James said their faith was dead.

Show me one person who had non living faith and was given eternal life.

 

[Waiting on him]

no no no, repentance is not works.

Repentance is the work of God, He changes us, He teaches us, He brings us to faith

I did not earn my salvation by repenting, that's laughable man!

Maybe it would help if people could do a study on who James was and where the church group he oversaw was located, in Corinthians Paul is encouraging the church there to take up an offering to send to them, apparently where ever they are they are not part of the prosperity movement..

 

[Waiting on him]

Here I'll list a product of salvation.

They took joyfully the spoiling of their goods.
Here's another

They didn't return to Judaism when persecution arose.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe it would help if people could do a study on who James was and where the church group he oversaw was located, in Corinthians Paul is encouraging the church there to take up an offering to send to them, apparently where ever they are they are not part of the prosperity movement..

is James focused on a particular church? I thought he wrote this letter to his Jewish brethren who were scattered?

 

[Waiting on him]

is James focused on a particular church? I thought he wrote this letter to his Jewish brethren who were scattered?

Well, the brethren are the church. Not the same church we see today.

So many times I see disputing over what James letter is stating, my question is

Whom is his audience?

 

[Waiting on him]

My opinion is James is only implying works will be a product of salvation, and the letter was written in perilous times.