The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Joseph77]

well lets see
I asked how they could have been saved.

Go slower. Point by point.

You asked how they could have been saved.

Thus you assumed they were not saved.

Why ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Go slower. Point by point.

You asked how they could have been saved.

Thus you assumed they were not saved.

Why ?

I told you why in my post

here lets do this again

James 1: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

why would he be telling people to receive a word which could save them, if they were already saved? And why would he be calling them deceived?

james 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Why would he be asking people if their faith apart from works could be saved, if there was no one there like that

and why would he be calling saved people foolish, Because they had mere belief only, Yet their claimed dead faith was dead because they had no works?

4 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

since when are enemies of God called believers?

My questions were not hard. I highlighted where I got it from in the passage, then asked th question from the highlighted part of the text. so you could easily see what I meant

can you please answer..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Go slower. Point by point.

You asked how they could have been saved.

Thus you assumed they were not saved.

Why ?

here lets do one at a time

James 1: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

why would he be telling people to receive a word which could save them, if they were already saved? And why would he be calling them deceived?

again, Why would james call them deceived, and still in need of the word which could save them if they are already saved?

 

[Joseph77]

You assume that James is talking to people, or writing to people that is, who are not saved yet.
You cannot show this from anything you have presented so far.
Assumptions of the grammar are not at all evidence,
and are contradicted by JAMeS HIMSELF, in JAMES:

(have to exit this window to get to the post/ Scripture of James) will post it when I get back to this page..)

 

[Joseph77]

Perhaps you are mis-reading James? Or do you agree with James >>

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance."

This clearly is to BROTHERS AND SISTERS .. and to consider all the trials of many kinds as PURE JOY....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This clearly is to BROTHERS AND SISTERS .. and to consider all the trials of many kinds as PURE JOY....

you have now done this multiple times

Can you please answer the questions I have asked. I do not think they are too hard.

If you can show me where I was wrong in my assumptions in those questions. we can move on, if not. and all you are going to do is keep taking me back to the first few verses, which I already explained (whether you agree with me or not is not the question)

If not. just let me know. and I will move on, because our conversation is pointless.

 

[Joseph77]

===================quoted post ===============================
Joseph77 said: ↑

This clearly is to BROTHERS AND SISTERS .. and to consider all the trials of many kinds as PURE JOY....
------------------------------------------------
you have now done this multiple times

Can you please answer the questions I have asked. I do not think they are too hard.

If you can show me where I was wrong in my assumptions in those questions.
============================================================
You said or posted, that they were not saved.
Right?

The Book of James clearly shows "to BROTHERS AND SiSTERS" (brethren, confirmed with all Scripture, born again ones, set apart, with circumcised hearts) ....

Thus, it is written to saved bethren. NOT to unsaved ones.

 

[Helen]

So, an easy believer who has no perception of God's justice, is not following the God of the Bible at all, because He is a God of justice as well as of love. He is following a mental image of a comfortable God and a meek and mild Jesus

And there we have it..."perception of.."
Where are you looking ? It may well be different to where I am focussed is different.
I find it is you who are not following the God of the bible...you are only following the God of the OT .

But here is an OT verse for you.
My bible says - Isa 53
"He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied. "

We de-value and nullify what Jesus came to live and die for, when we cannot perceive all that He did. He Defeated death, defeating sin, defeated hell and He the grave...He was finishing, accomplishing our full deliverance.
God did the Miraculous right there in Jesus Christ on the cross.

If that makes me an 'easy believer'...so be it!
I will wear the badge. ✟

It's called 'the grace of God'...the Good News of the Kingdom.

blessings ...H

 

[Eternally Grateful]

===================quoted post ===============================
Joseph77 said: ↑

This clearly is to BROTHERS AND SISTERS .. and to consider all the trials of many kinds as PURE JOY....
------------------------------------------------
you have now done this multiple times

Can you please answer the questions I have asked. I do not think they are too hard.

If you can show me where I was wrong in my assumptions in those questions.
============================================================
You said or posted, that they were not saved.
Right?

The Book of James clearly shows "to BROTHERS AND SiSTERS" (brethren, confirmed with all Scripture, born again ones, set apart, with circumcised hearts) ....

Thus, it is written to saved bethren. NOT to unsaved ones.

so you can't answer my questions

good day sir.. If you can not answer reasonable questions. especially after I have already answered yours. something is amiss

I do not wish to continue with this type of one way conversation.

I answered your question about who james was written to.

I do not desire to answer it again,, Especially when you refuse to even look at my questions.

 

[Paul Christensen]

well see here we are

You prove a few things

1. you don't read a word I say, Multiple times I have said there is no such things as faith apart from works. I even made the words larger and highlighted them so you can not deny I said them
2. Since you do not read what I say, You make simple errors in reasoning here, By claiming I would say something I never have said, in fact, you would never even contemplate saying it,
3. Since you do say it, you show you have need of re-evaluate your own belief, since you are tryign to defend it so hard you start to ignore what others say, and in turn bear false witness against them

simple logic says, that If I do not believe there is such a thing as faith apart from works. then in my view EVERYONE who has true saving faith in christ WILL WORK.

so if I think that everyone who has true saving has works, then how does work negate faith? and how could you possibly come to the conclusion you have come to?

You see my friend, You are responding with a programed response. a response you have been taught. Because we have heard it so many times, and see it so many times, It can not come from induvidual thinking, it has to be programed into your thinking. yes, you all use it.

What's the saying? "There are no blind who will not see!"

 

[Joseph77]

so you can't answer my questions

?
Did you ever claim, or show, that the brothers and sisters JAMES IS WRITING TO ,
are UNbelievers ?

 

[FollowHim]

You assume that James is talking to people, or writing to people that is, who are not saved yet.
You cannot show this from anything you have presented so far.
Assumptions of the grammar are not at all evidence,
and are contradicted by JAMeS HIMSELF, in JAMES:

(have to exit this window to get to the post/ Scripture of James) will post it when I get back to this page..)

James is writing to believers primarily to warn them against false followers who were stirring up trouble and claiming to know God.

Forums have there fill also. James clearly says love shows itself through actions, no love no actions.
He uses the word faith, but equally love works and brings context. Beliefs can be very dry, but Christ is very alive.

 

[Joseph77]

James is writing to believers primarily to warn them against false followers who were stirring up trouble and claiming to know God.

Amen.
Someone else was taught something else and posted it

 

[Paul Christensen]

And there we have it..."perception of.."
Where are you looking ? It may well be different to where I am focussed is different.
I find it is you who are not following the God of the bible...you are only following the God of the OT .

But here is an OT verse for you.
My bible says - Isa 53
"He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied. "

We de-value and nullify what Jesus came to live and die for, when we cannot perceive all that He did. He Defeated death, defeating sin, defeated hell and He the grave...He was finishing, accomplishing our full deliverance.
God did the Miraculous right there in Jesus Christ on the cross.

If that makes me an 'easy believer'...so be it!
I will wear the badge. ✟

It's called 'the grace of God'...the Good News of the Kingdom.

blessings ...H

I have a question:
Why did Jesus come and die on the cross?

 

[FollowHim]

Amen.
Someone else was taught something else and posted it

Some claim to answer a question like in a conversation where both parties agree the content but are actually not.

It's a kind of insanity because there is no audience, just their own imagination. One time someone denied the very words they had written minutes before. The fact they appear normal is the miracle.

 

[FollowHim]

Jesus called His enemies liars. Once consistency in an argument or describing what is going on becomes made up, the Lord is not part of it.

Easy believism speaks to selfish security, I am safe no matter what. Love says I sacrifice to gain that which cannot be lost, no matter what. God risked all to have Jesus a man, to be like the Father though limited, to show He conquers and transcends all, which we likewise can follow.

Unbelievers lie and hate this truth because they feel locked out, not realising it is they who have locked Jesus out of their hearts.

They must be saved because they believed as kids not seeing they joined a group without new birth, and are still outside looking for others to devour.

 

[Joseph77]

Some claim to answer a question like in a conversation where both parties agree the content but are actually not.

It's a kind of insanity because there is no audience, just their own imagination. One time someone denied the very words they had written minutes before. The fact they appear normal is the miracle.

Remember that in this world we live in, most people are duped, like in a stupor, according to all Scripture.

 

[Helen]

I have a question:
Why did Jesus come and die on the cross?

To redeem mankind from the curse ..
...He died at the will of God..."the Lamb slain from before the creation of the world."
Laid down His life...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

?
Did you ever claim, or show, that the brothers and sisters JAMES IS WRITING TO ,
are UNbelievers ?

here is the deal my friend

you asked me to show you unbelievers

I posted a few passages and asked how those people could be believers

you posted again the first few verses

I asked again how could those people be brothers and sisters in Christ

it’s on you to explain to
Me how they are real brothers and sisters

or by silence. Prove to me I was right to begin with

can you do it? Or were my questions too hard

 

[Joseph77]

I asked again how could those people be brothers and sisters in Christ

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD'S WORD !?

I would expect positively you do.

GOD'S WORD says they are BROTHERS and SISTERS, thus , WHY would you EVER contradict God's Word ?

You apparently were taught some time in the past, OR assumed, that you could figure it out better than what God Says ? Otherwise, why

would you call those people God's Word calls BROTHERS and SISTERS (to JAMES the APOSTLE)
unbelievers !?

Did the grammer/ English structure, / verbs/ adjectives/ confuse you in the book of James ? It is from the INSPIRATION of GOD, and understood in the Hebrew / Jewish groups without any such thought as you posted against them .....