The Vision--another look
- Thread starter Randy Kluth
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How do you tie your thoughts in with these:
Pray that you will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the world to test its people.
And: the parable that says, so be prepared and keep watch because you dont know when I will return.
No, I mean from the prophecies in the Bible. They are very detailed and specific. If you know them, you will see as they are fulfilled.
There are already many prophets proclaiming His return, and that will increase. And what they say won't necessarily agree with the Scriptures. So we need to hold fast to the Scriptures themselves, and test the prophets to see if they are true.
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
But here is where you get into timing. Many proclaim prophecies that the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, but they are just quoting scripture and nothing more. It is not Christ's authority speaking through them declaring that it is about to come to pass in the near future, such as will be the case with those described in Joel 2:28. There is a big difference between simply quoting a prophecy from scripture vs. prophesying in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Spirit gives one utterance.
If you are seeing them fulfilled, at least at a certain point you could just about know the day. Especially if you see the 2 witnesses, right?
So how does that tie into, be prepared, keep watch, for you do not know the day and hour when He will come?
The Scripture, I know it's true. So yes, there is a difference.
Anyone can claim the Spirit speaks through them, and many many do, but they don't all say the same things. So we test against Scripture. And Scriptures tell us what we need to know about the Lord's return. Or do you not believe that?
And about timing.
If you know the Scriptures, then you know the signs. And you need not someone tell you anything, because the Spirit of Christ inside you teaches you.
Much love!
I understand the exhortation to pray that you "be counted worthy/have strength to flee" (depending on you manuscript) is given to the Jews who will be fleeing Antichrist, hoping to be rescued by Jesus Christ.
And keeping watch, there will come a time when the people will know, those who know the Scriptures, Jesus said, when you see these things . . . you redemption draws near. But that until that time, we need to be prepared, because there is no assurance that you can wait until then to be ready (the 5 foolish virgins).
God wants us to live in expectation of Jesus' return, I think so that we will, in Moses' words, "number our days", remember, this could be cut short at any time, so, are you using this day well?
Much love!
In reality I see this as a general warning, but not to be understood as, you won't know anything is happening until that final moment. As I mentioned Jesus said, when you see these things you redemption is near. Paul wrote in Thessalonians that you are not of the night, that the day should overtake you as a thief.
My thinking is that we will be "raptured" pre-trib, and that the Gog/Magog invasion will be happening.
But what I was saying to HIH is that if we simply learn the prophecies, then, just as the Bible says, we'll recognize it however it turns out to be. I mean, who cares about my idea of timing, right? But if we know the Scriptures, we won't be in the dark.
Much love!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Actually, scripture says that we test the spirits that prophesy, and that any spirit which confesses not that Jesus is come in the flesh is not of God. If you leave things open to merely being tested "by scripture," you potentially allow anything uttered by the Spirit of God to be rejected because men's interpretations don't agree with it. Granted, if you have well-educated and Spirit-filled men in a congregation, mean who discern true revelation when they hear it, then they will confirm what is said through scripture itself as well as through what the Spirit has spoken elsewhere.
But this is a big IF in that equation. I don't see many congregations today as being led by such men.
Hmm...He was saying it to the Jews only? It never occurred to me that someone might think it wasn't for us too. So...when you see these things begin to happen, look up, is only for the Jews at a future time? So Luke 21:6 and onward is not for us? I find that odd. I'm not cutting on you though. I did ask what you thought.
I guess my next question would be...so what the Jews are being instructed is to pray they will be found worthy to escape the antichrist? Like, not be killed or tortured by him?
Oh wait, okay so you quote the look up verse here for us. So some of it is for us and some of it only for the jews?
I can give more detail if you like. In a nutshell . . .
The prophecy, when you see these things begin to happen look up, for your redemption is getting close, it will apply to whomever is there, watching.
It's like, when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place flee to the mountains of Judea. This will apply to those in Jerusalem and nearby, who are there when this happens. No one in the US will be fleeing to the mountains of Judea when the man of sin sits in the temple.
In that I've come to the conclusion that we will be removed prior to Jacob's Trouble, then we simply (or those alive if not in our lifetime) won't be there for it.
Much love!
And one more question I guess. What specifically would make a Jewish person worthy to escape the antichrists anger and persecution?
Yes. The word there is to make your escape, to run away, or flee. Again, depending on which manuscript, one says Worthy, the other says Have Strength.
Much love!
So what Jesus is telling the jews is to pray they will be young and healthy enough to run away from his persecution?
And that's why I think that the manuscript that says "have strength" is more likely correct, though I wouldn't be dogmatic.
Because what indeed does make one worthy? I would answer that our worthiness is only found in Christ. And if that is the true reading I would answer by trusting in Christ.
Jesus also told them to pray that their fleeing not be on the Sabbath, or in winter, and that it would be especially hard for those pregnant, or who have children.
Much love!
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