'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[Earburner]

And you a perfect example of ignoring the written word of God.

I can ignore that statement by the witness of many posters here, that I do not do what you falsely and blatantly claim against me!
Lets get back to the scriptures and the "guidance" of God's Holy Spirit, without all the mud-slinging.

 

[Earburner]

Hello @Earburner,

I am sorry that I did not respond to these posts of yours. I don't know why. I must have got distracted, left the thread, and have not been back until now. These entries were on page 10, and I see that the subject of the thread has been derailed since then.

I have to go off-line now, but hope to come back and address the points you have raised here.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Charity,
No problem!

 

[Earburner]

While the Mother of Harlots includes, the Apostate Church, the mother of harlots is much more than just The Apostate Church. The Mother of Harlots is "Babylon the Great" the world Empire of false religion.
I'm not trying to stay away from any topic, I simply know that because you don't have God Holy Spirit
You want believe the truth. In fact just as the Jews called Jesus the ruler of the demons, a blasphemous person and a slandered etc so you and those like you will not recognize the True Church of God that does have God's Holy Spirit, but instead you and those like you will believe the True Church of God to not only be false but demonic. Just as the Jews said Such evil things about Jesus the people who claim to be God's servants will say evil things about the True Church of God.

You are talking about all the "harlots".
Now, who is "the mother"?
Clue#1: Its NOT the RCC.

 

[bbyrd009]

so you and those like you

ah so see there is condemnation in those who are in Christ after all huh

 

[charity]

Thank you for your reply.
1. Those "first fruits", spoken of them that slept, is definitely speaking of Israel of faith. They had been dead for many years, HAVING NOT received "the promise" of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the vehicle of Eternal Life. Much of Christianity is in error concerning that issue.
Please remember that without the shedding of Christ's Blood, there is no remission (forgiveness/removal) of sin.
Therefore, all of Israel, who died in faith, were still waiting for the Promise of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the Holy Spirit.

'And the graves were opened;
and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection,
and went into the holy city,
and appeared unto many.'
(Mat 27:52-53)

Hello there, @Earburner ,

'For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(1 Corinthians 15:16-20)

* I agree that 'them that slept' are of Israel. Who, as you say, died without receiving the promises (Hebrews 11:13):-

'These all died in faith, not having received the promises,
but having seen them afar off,
and were persuaded of them, and embraced them,
and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.'

* Will you please explain the words in your entry quoted above, that I have highlighted in red, please: for I know that those men and women of faith died not having received the promises, but why do you say that it was the promise of the Holy Spirit that they awaited?

Earburner said:-
Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit could NOT be permanently given to anyone.
So then, did they also receive the H/S in the Day of Pentecost? YES! But at that time, only those who died as martyrs. It is revealed in KJV- Revelation 6:9-11

'And when he had opened the fifth seal,
.. I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
.... and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
.. How long, O Lord, holy and true,
.... dost thou not judge and avenge our blood
...... on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them;
.. and it was said unto them,
.... that they should rest yet for a little season,
...... until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
........ that should be killed as they were,
.......... should be fulfilled.'

* These surely are the Overcomers who lost their lives through beheading during the tribulation period (Revelation 20:4).

Earburner said:-

... All others, who were Israel of faith, will be included in the "great multitude", King David being one of them. If you recall, David wasn't a martyr, and his unopened grave site is still with us to this day!
Acts 2:29, 34.
2. KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 is the reality of what took place on Pentecost for all of Israel who died as a martyr. "White Robes" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.
3. No, they were awakened martyrs, and were resurrected in the time of Jesus' Resurrection. However, as shown in Rev. 6, they are resting, "asleep in Jesus", but now with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, aka Eternal life.
4. Yes, dead for years, and now after Jesus' Resurrection, they were risen from their graves and walking around, being visibly seen by others.

* I feel the need for more Scriptural support for this, @Earburner

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank you for your reply.
1. Those "first fruits", spoken of them that slept, is definitely speaking of Israel of faith. They had been dead for many years, HAVING NOT received "the promise" of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the vehicle of Eternal Life. Much of Christianity is in error concerning that issue.
Please remember that without the shedding of Christ's Blood, there is no remission (forgiveness/removal) of sin.
Therefore, all of Israel, who died in faith, were still waiting for the Promise of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the Holy Spirit.

Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit could NOT be permanently given to anyone.
So then, did they also receive the H/S in the Day of Pentecost? YES! But at that time, only those who died as martyrs.
It is revealed in KJV- Revelation 6:9-11

All others, who were Israel of faith, will be included in the "great multitude", King David being one of them. If you recall, David wasn't a martyr, and his unopened grave site is still with us to this day!
Acts 2:29, 34.
2. KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 is the reality of what took place on Pentecost for all of Israel who died as a martyr. "White Robes" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.
3. No, they were awakened martyrs, and were resurrected in the time of Jesus' Resurrection. However, as shown in Rev. 6, they are resting, "asleep in Jesus", but now with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, aka Eternal life.
4. Yes, dead for years, and now after Jesus' Resurrection, they were risen from their graves and walking around, being visibly seen by others.

"its like thisss,
and like that..."
ok

 

[Earburner]

So, if the RCC is not the "mother", but is a harlot just like all the religious denominations of Protestism, who is the Mother, the origin of "Mystery Babylon"?
Clue #2: In all of NT scripture, there are only two " mothers" mentioned.
Who/what are they? And where are they?

 

[Earburner]

Will you please explain the words in your entry quoted above, that I have highlighted in red, please: for I know that those men and women of faith died not having received the promises, but why do you say that it was the promise of the Holy Spirit that they awaited?

All of the prophetic scriptures in the OT, through the Patriarchs and the Prophets, spoke of the coming of the Holy One, the Messiah.
Israel of faith, like Simeon, looked to that day, of which he did see the Holy One prophesied of. Luke 2:25-26.
You may have questions about the Holy Spirit "upon" Simeon, but remember Christ had not shed His Blood yet, so therefore no one prior to that day had their sin REMOVED. Forgiven through the repetitive annual animal sacrifices, yes, but never removed!! Through faith, Jesus' Sacrifice removes all sin from the repentant, born again Christian, forever.
The Holy spirit came upon Simeon, but at that time could not yet stay with him permanently.

Now you can know what KJV Psalm 51 means.
[9] Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 51 is more prophetic than a reality, in the time that God said it through David.
So really, HOW does God "create" a clean heart within us?
Ans. Through faith in Jesus' Sacrifice, we invite God into our lives, Who ONLY is good. Therefore if God Himself IS within us, then our heart is clean before Him, through the Blood of Jesus.
And for all of us, who are born again by His Holy Sprit, we are made to be NEW creatures (a new creation) permanently.
The promise now is: "I will never leave you, nor forsake you". David, in his life, could not at that time say that for himself.

Though David is not yet bodily resurrected, as many were Matthew 27:53, on the Day Pentecost, he also has been given the Holy Spirit (white robe), and now is asleep in Jesus, "sealed unto the day of redemption".
Revelation 6:9-11

As for Israel, which was/is not of faith, they made a religion out of the Law, and to this day, still do worship it, and not God. John 3:18 silences their vain hope.
So, as the scriptures do say: "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God".

 

[Earburner]

Ooops sorry! I made a poor reference, it did not copy correctly.
KJV- Psalm 51[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
[11] Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

 

[Earburner]

* These surely are the Overcomers who lost their lives through beheading during the tribulation period (Revelation 20:4).

Please don't be confused at what you are looking at and assimilating of who is doing the overcoming. In most of the eleven NT scriptures, that have the word "overcometh", its always in reference to overcoming death, of which is the act of Jesus ONLY.
So, if there be any overcoming in us, it is His act of Himself through us, because of faith.
The word "overcometh" is in reference to a person who has the Holy Spirit of God, permanently, and therefore through faith in Jesus and His Resurrection, they also **have "overcome" death.

The OT Saints, who did not have the Holy Spirit permanently, did not "overcome" death, until they also were given "white robes", of which NOW having received, they are asleep IN Jesus, whereas prior to that, they died in faith unto that day. God did not forget them, and their faith in their Messiah Jesus to come!

By the Holy Spirit permanently residing in us, we are NOW given, since Pentecost, the Gift of Eternal Life. That Gift of God's Promise, is for both those were looking forward in faith, as well as we who are now looking afterward in faith, but even more so for Him to come again at last, permanently!

**1 John 5[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Please notice that the word "have" is in the present tense, as in NOW.

 

[charity]

All of the prophetic scriptures in the OT, through the Patriarchs and the Prophets, spoke of the coming of the Holy One, the Messiah.

* Yes, I see that.

Earburner said -
Israel of faith, like Simeon, looked to that day, of which he did see the Holy One prophesied of. Luke 2:25-26.
You may have questions about the Holy Spirit "upon" Simeon, but remember Christ had not shed His Blood yet, so therefore no one prior to that day had their sin REMOVED. Forgiven through the repetitive annual animal sacrifices, yes, but never removed!! Through faith, Jesus' Sacrifice removes all sin from the repentant, born again Christian, forever.
The Holy spirit came upon Simeon, but at that time could not yet stay with him permanently.

* Yes, I see that.

Earburner said -
'Create in me a clean heart, O God;
and renew a right spirit within me.
Cast me not away from Thy presence;
and take not Thy holy spirit from me.'
(Psalm 51:10-11)

Psalm 51 is more prophetic than a reality, in the time that God said it through David.

* Yes I see that.

'And the LORD said,
.. Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil,
.. and anointed him in the midst of his brethren:
.... and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David
...... from that day forward.
So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, ... '
(1 Samuel 12b-14a)

Earburner said -
So really, HOW does God "create" a clean heart within us?
Ans. Through faith in Jesus' Sacrifice, we invite God into our lives, Who ONLY is good. Therefore if God Himself IS within us, then our heart is clean before Him, through the Blood of Jesus.
And for all of us, who are born again by His Holy Spirit, we are made to be NEW creatures (a new creation) permanently.
The promise now is: "I will never leave you, nor forsake you". David, in his life, could not at that time say that for himself.

* Yes, I see that, too.

Earburner said -
Though David is not yet bodily resurrected, as many were Matthew 27:53, on the Day Pentecost, he also has been given the Holy Spirit (white robe), and now is asleep in Jesus, "sealed unto the day of redemption". Revelation 6:9-11.

'And the graves were opened;
and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after His resurrection,
and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.'
(Mat 27:52)

* But, Earburner, this took place after His resurrection, we are not told that it happened at Pentecost, which was some time later. We are not told that David received a white robe at Pentecost either, are we. We are also not told that the white robe is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

* Those who were privileged to wear a white robe were described in (Rev 7:13-15), as those 'which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb'. Those referred to in Revelation 6:9-11 that you refer to, came through the great tribulation, and were beheaded (Revelation 20:4), they were not those who were raised from their graves in Matthew 27:52.

* The significance of the white robe, is seen in Revelation 3:4-5, as the mark of the 'Overcomer'.

'Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments;
and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment;
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.'

* The giving of it was the token in Revelation 6:11, that their request made in Revelation 6:10 would be granted: which it was in Revelation 20:4.

'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'
(Revelation 20:4)

Earburner said -
As for Israel, which was/is not of faith, they made a religion out of the Law, and to this day, still do worship it, and not God. John 3:18 silences their vain hope.
So, as the scriptures do say: "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God".

* Yes, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Earburner]

Charity,
By the Spirit of God within you, you will be most pleased to hear the following Psalm, as interpreted by Him and not by what our flesh thinks it means:
Psalm 24[1] The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
[2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD,
and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
That prophetic scripture it NOT about what we shhould DO, but rather it is about Christ, who has DONE it for US!!
Issaiah 55:8-9

His Blessings to you,
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

Hi Chris,
Psalm 24:1-5 is for you also

His Blessings to you also,
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

^ Maybe I am talking to the same person?

 

[charity]

Please don't be confused at what you are looking at and assimilating of who is doing the overcoming. In most of the eleven NT scriptures, that have the word "overcometh", its always in reference to overcoming death, of which is the act of Jesus ONLY.
So, if there be any overcoming in us, it is His act of Himself through us, because of faith.
The word "overcometh" is in reference to a person who has the Holy Spirit of God, permanently, and therefore through faith in Jesus and His Resurrection, they also **have "overcome" death.

Hello @Earburner,

In the book of Revelation 'overcoming' is spoken in regard to the time of tribulation.

Earburner said -
The OT Saints, who did not have the Holy Spirit permanently, did not "overcome" death, until they also were given "white robes", of which NOW having received, they are asleep IN Jesus, whereas prior to that, they died in faith unto that day. God did not forget them, and their faith in their Messiah Jesus to come!

* White robes are not symbolic of the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament saints are spoken of as 'sleeping with their Fathers' and have the hope of resurrection.(Acts 26:6-8)

Earburner said -
By the Holy Spirit permanently residing in us, we are NOW given, since Pentecost, the Gift of Eternal Life. That Gift of God's Promise, is for both those were looking forward in faith, as well as we who are now looking afterward in faith, but even more so for Him to come again at last, permanently!

**1 John 5[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Please notice that the word "have" is in the present tense, as in NOW.

Yes, Praise God!

* Thank you for all your efforts, in responding to my post, Earburner.
We do not agree on all things, but where the Lord Jesus Christ is concerned we are agreed.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Charity,
By the Spirit of God within you, you will be most pleased to hear the following Psalm, as interpreted by Him and not by what our flesh thinks it means:
Psalm 24[1] The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
[2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD,
and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
That prophetic scripture it NOT about what we shhould DO, but rather it is about Christ, who has DONE it for US!!
Issaiah 55:8-9

His Blessings to you,
Earburner

Hi Chris,
Psalm 24:1-5 is for you also

His Blessings to you also,
Earburner

--------------------------------
Thank you, @Earburner,

I am going off line now, but I will look at these references.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I can ignore that statement by the witness of many posters here, that I do not do what you falsely and blatantly claim against me!
Lets get back to the scriptures and the "guidance" of God's Holy Spirit, without all the mud-slinging.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but I read your posts concerning the scriptures. The scriptures explicitly have written down at Revelation 1:1 that this Revelation didn't originate with Jesus but instead orginated from God because the scriptures shows that God gave this revelation to him. This Scripture along with other scriptures in Revelations show explicitly that Jesus and God are not the same person because It's written down in Scripture that the Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God, long after Jesus resurrection and he's in heaven the scriptures show that the Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God, but instead of agreeing with what's written down and admitting that The Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and God which is proof that The Only True God and The Only Begotten Son of God are not the same person, you and others who believe in the Trinity will deny this.
Let's stay with the facts. You keep talking of the Holy Spirit as you do, but The Only True God used his Holy Spirit to inspire men to write the scriptures which are The Only True God thoughts as to what is the truth. Since the scriptures show that The Only Begotten Son of God claims to have a Father and God long after his ascension into heaven this is what I'm going to believe. The Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle John to write down several times in the book of Revelations that Jesus claimed to have a Father and God, I'm not going to deny this or teach something different from this. I'm also going to believe that since the scriptures show that Jesus claims he has a Father and God that can only mean that the person Jesus claims to be his Father and God can only be The Only True God. You can think what you want because I believe this, but what is written down, is what the Holy Spirit of God had written down. So those who truly have God's Holy Spirit will agree with what God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. Those who don't have God's Holy Spirit will not believe and therefore teach something different from what's written down.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are talking about all the "harlots".
Now, who is "the mother"?
Clue#1: Its NOT the RCC.

I told you who the mother of Harlots is, it's, "Babylon the Great, the world Empire of false religion," if you don't agree with this, that's your choice. Also the RCC belongs with the Apostate church which I agree the Apostate Church is included with the mother of harlots but the mother harlots is much more than just the Apostate Church.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

ah so see there is condemnation in those who are in Christ after all huh

Are you in Christ? Because I honestly don't believe, those who believe and teach the Trinity, are in Christ.

 

[Earburner]

* But, Earburner, this took place after His resurrection, we are not told that it happened at Pentecost, which was some time later. We are not told that David received a white robe at Pentecost either, are we. We are also not told that the white robe is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for your questions!

Who are we to say that Jesus cannot reward the OT Saints of faith/martyrdom during the time of His Resurrection?

I am understanding that only the OT martyrs were then resurrected (not resucitated) after Christ's Resurrection.
But David, who was not a martyr, did not resurrect, but did receive the Gift of God's Eternal Life, aka the Holy Spirit, Who is also the vehicle of it. The Promise is equal to all who are of faith in Christ, the Gift of Eternal Life.

The book of Revelations is not only about the far future, from when John received the visions, but is also about Jesus' Death ,Resurrection and Ascension.

Since Rev. is highly symbolic, and is from God/Jesus directly, surely we should know that His Eternal thoughts are equal, being in the past, present and future, all at the same time. That is nothing that we are able to do, through human logic and analytical study, but rather only by His Spirit.

Since understanding His words through His Spirit, really is the challenge, we must side track every preconcieved doctrine and notion concerning end time events, that has been concocted and/or misconstrued by every denomination, and their analytical thoughts.
Though logic and analytical do have a place in our study time, our guide should always be Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13, having the last say.

Now that we are 2000 yrs. from the Cross of Christ, we need to thoroughly investigate and know, what it is that has already passed, what is now, and what is still yet to come, making sure that we don't filter anything through some favorite pet doctrine.