FACTS ABOUT ABORTION

[Marymog]

Agree, Marymog! The human fetus (i.e. baby in the womb) certainly is NOT canine or bovine or any other animal.

@Stan B seems to think a canine or bovine is equal to a fetus until it is born.

 

[Stan B]

Once again you are wrong. You have been wrong about the biology of a fetus compared to a cancer and you didn’t want to discuss it any further once you were proven wrong. And now you are wrong about Christian history on this matter: The early Christian document known as the Didache (50-70 AD):

The second commandment of the teaching is: You shall not murder; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not corrupt children; you shall not be sexually immoral; you shall not steal; you shall not practice magic; you shall not engage in sorcery; you shall not abort a child or commit infanticide. (Didache 2. 1,2)


Would you like to discuss how you are now WRONG about the anti abortion cult cropping up in the last few years????

Curious Mary

Well first of all, the Didache is not Scripture. It is just a bunch of misc stuff collected over a few centuries. As for this particular passage, it actually comes from the non-canonical Epistle of Barnabas,

"Thou shalt not destroy the conception of thy womb, nor kill it after it has been born." Barnabas 19:5

Barnabas came up with a whole bunch of weird stuff that he thought should be added to the Bible; probably why his stuff was never included in the Canon of Scripture.

 

[Stan B]

Well, that is YOUR interpretation of Scripture. Why are YOU right and a majority of Christians wrong?

Using your interpretation of Scripture it sounds like you are OK with a doctor stopping the heart beat of a fetus after it has exited the womb as long has it hasn’t taken it’s first breathe? Curious Mary

How would anyone know whether it had taken its first breath? That would be murder! I know of one doctor that was caught doing that, and the last I heard, he had already served 13 years in prison for murder.

 

[Marymog]

Well first of all, the Didache is not Scripture. It is just a bunch of misc stuff collected over a few centuries. As for this particular passage, it actually comes from the non-canonical Epistle of Barabas,

"Thou shalt not destroy the conception of thy womb, nor kill it after it has been born." Barnabas 19:5

Barnabas came up with a whole bunch of weird stuff that he thought should be added to the Bible; probably why his stuff was never included in the Canon of Scripture.

Hold on kiddo.....YOU SAID: This entire anti-abortion cult is something that has cropped up in the last few years. The are not at all Biblical. They are more of a political activist group whose objective is to tell me what I can or cannot do with my body.

I proved you WRONG by quoting a Christian document that was written before some NT letters and you want to call it “weird stuff”??? Soooo no matter how many times you are proven wrong you are still going to believe you are right???

It is your theory that since Jesus nor the Apostles never came right out and said that abortion is murder then you have no reason to believe that abortion is murder?

 

[Stan B]

Hold on kiddo.....YOU SAID: This entire anti-abortion cult is something that has cropped up in the last few years. The are not at all Biblical. They are more of a political activist group whose objective is to tell me what I can or cannot do with my body.

I proved you WRONG by quoting a Christian document that was written before some NT letters and you want to call it “weird stuff”??? Soooo no matter how many times you are proven wrong you are still going to believe you are right???

It is your theory that since Jesus nor the Apostles never came right out and said that abortion is murder then you have no reason to believe that abortion is murder?

I haven't seen it anywhere within the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, and have no reason to believe it has been any kind of issue for the past 2,000 years.

To suggest that God really wanted to declare abortion unlawful, but then forgot to mention it during the thousands of years Scripture was being written is blasphemous. God is not stupid!! If He wanted such a law, He would have had such law included in Scripture.

 

[Stan B]

@Stan B seems to think a canine or bovine is equal to a fetus until it is born.

Depends upon your objective, whether you want to breed more cattle, or whether you need more farm workers.

 

[Marymog]

How would anyone know whether it had taken its first breath? That would be murder! I know of one doctor that was caught doing that, and the last I heard, he had already served 13 years in prison for murder.

How would anyone know if it had taken it’s first breathe? Ummmm.....on a regular basis medical staff help infants start breathing once they are out of the womb soooooo your deflection is not going to work with me kiddo.

Soooooo please answer the question instead of deflecting: Using your interpretation of Scripture it sounds like you are OK with a doctor stopping the heart beat of a fetus after it has exited the womb as long has it hasn’t taken it’s first breathe?

Patient Mary

 

[Stan B]

Soooooo please answer the question instead of deflecting: Using your interpretation of Scripture it sounds like you are OK with a doctor stopping the heart beat of a fetus after it has exited the womb as long has it hasn’t taken it’s first breathe?
Patient Mary

Sorry, I thought I had answered that question, but in reviewing my answer, I suppose not.

I consider killing of a newly born baby to be what it is . . . murder!

 

[Marymog]

Sorry, I thought I had answered that question, but in reviewing my answer, I suppose not.

I consider killing of a newly born baby to be what it is . . . murder!

Thank you for that follow up.

How can it be murder if is not breathing yet? (Just to be clear we are talking about a non-breathing baby that just came out of the womb)

 

[Stan B]

Thank you for that follow up.

How can it be murder if is not breathing yet? (Just to be clear we are talking about a non-breathing baby that just came out of the womb)

Breathing or not breathing, is hardly an issue. Having come out of the womb, this event is uniformly recognized around the world as his birthday. Breathing, is the very first thing a newborn does after exiting the womb.

Anyone who terminates the life of someone on or after his birthday is guilty of murder.

 

[Avalon1]

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations."

I can't imagine what that has to do with abortion, or anyone other than the person to whom it was addressed: Jeremiah.

You must be desperate to find a scrap of Scripture to support your unBiblical agenda. All the passage says is that God had chosen Jeremiah to be a prophet. Does that mean everyone who has ever been in a womb has been chosen to be a prophet?? Duh!

That passage merely has to do with God's foreknowledge about Jeremiah. No big deal! He knew us all, before the foundation of the world: "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world . . ." Ephesians 1:4

Simply, He knew everything that would happen before the foundation of the world. He knew who would be born and who wouldn't. He knew who would be aborted by God Himself and others. God facilitates abortions, called spontaneous abortions, or miscarriages on a routine basis.

God wouldn't do something sinful would He??

If you seriously want to address abortion, it is very simple. Just provide a passage from Scripture which delares "Thou shalt not have an abortion." The reason you don't is because no such prohibition is found in Scripture.

I think you've been watching too much CNN.

 

[Avalon1]

Well, that is YOUR interpretation of Scripture. Why are YOU right and a majority of Christians wrong?

Using your interpretation of Scripture it sounds like you are OK with a doctor stopping the heart beat of a fetus after it has exited the womb as long has it hasn’t taken it’s first breathe?

Curious Mary

Good point.

 

[marksman]

May I suggest that we all ignore Stan B as he is determined to defend abortion and the lies that go with it. Apart from the fact that he always invades someone else threads rather than start his own so he is, to say the least, a coward as he does not have the courage of his convictions.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

This issue, is whether abortion is prohibited by Scripture.

Proverbs 6:16
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,

Deuteronomy 19:10
So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and bloodguiltiness be on you.

2 Kings 21:16
Moreover, Manasseh shed very much innocent blood until he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; besides his sin with which he made Judah sin, in doing evil in the sight of the Lord.

Psalm 94:21
They band themselves together against the life of the righteous
And condemn the innocent to death.

Isaiah 59:7
Their feet run to evil,
And they hasten to shed innocent blood;
Their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity,
Devastation and destruction are in their highways.

Joel 3:19
Egypt will become a waste,
And Edom will become a desolate wilderness, Because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood.

Jeremiah 22:17
“But your eyes and your heart
Are intent only upon your own dishonest gain, And on shedding innocent blood
And on practicing oppression and extortion.”

Psalm 106:38
And shed innocent blood,
The blood of their sons and their daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan;
And the land was polluted with the blood.

 

[Stan B]

Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil,
And they hasten to shed innocent blood;

Or as the NLT correctly translates the meaning of this passage,

"Their feet run to do evil, and they rush to commit murder." Isaiah 59:7

To suggest that the passages you have quoted have anything whatsoever to do with abortion is a wild flight of fantasy.

With an abortion the only blood being shed is the mother's blood, something she does on a monthly basis. To suggest that menstruation is is somehow wicked, is something you should take up with the Creator, not with me.

If you figure your "innocent blood" nonsense can in any way be translated into "Thou shalt not have an abortion", that says a lot about the delusion being propagated by the unBiblical anti-abortion crowd.

 

[historyb]

May I suggest that we all ignore Stan B as he is determined to defend abortion and the lies that go with it. Apart from the fact that he always invades someone else threads rather than start his own so he is, to say the least, a coward as he does not have the courage of his convictions.

The only way to deal with a wolf in sheep's clothing

 

[Stan B]

Thank you for that follow up.

How can it be murder if is not breathing yet? (Just to be clear we are talking about a non-breathing baby that just came out of the womb)

I was not talking about a non-breathing baby, i.e a fetus. I was talking about a baby, which by definition is a living breathing human being, a baby, not a fetus. And to kill a "baby" is murder.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Or as the NLT correctly translates the meaning of this passage,

"Their feet run to do evil, and they rush to commit murder." Isaiah 59:7

To suggest that the passages you have quoted have anything whatsoever to do with abortion is a wild flight of fantasy.

With an abortion the only blood being shed is the mother's blood, something she does on a monthly basis. To suggest that menstruation is is somehow wicked, is something you should take up with the Creator, not with me.

If you figure your "innocent blood" nonsense can in any way be translated into "Thou shalt not have an abortion", that says a lot about the delusion being propagated by the unBiblical anti-abortion crowd.

Ps. 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb...My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance;...

 

[Marymog]

I was not talking about a non-breathing baby, i.e a fetus. I was talking about a baby, which by definition is a living breathing human being, a baby, not a fetus. And to kill a "baby" is murder.

So I understand you to be saying that a non breathing human that has just been born is still a fetus?

 

[Stan B]

Ps. 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb...My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance;...

Yeah, that is David talking, sort of along the line that the Apostle wrote, that God knew us all before the foundation of the world

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world . . ." Ephesians 1:4

Simply, He knew everything that would happen before the foundation of the world. He knew who would be born and who wouldn't. He knew who would be aborted by God Himself and others. God facilitates abortions, under varying circumstances, whether spontaneous abortions or miscarriages. God wouldn't do something sinful would He??