Christians and the Law of Moses

[Enoch111]

The Law of Moses and The 10 Commandments of God are distinctly separate of each other.

Since the Ten Commandments are within the Law of Moses, they cannot be said to be "distinctly separate". However, they are the moral and spiritual laws of God, therefore eternal. And the Ten Commandments have been incorporated into the Law of Christ, as Paul clearly shows us. Once again:

TEN COMMANDMENTS----> TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS----> ONE SUPREME COMMANDMENT (the Law of Christ or the Law of Love).

 

[Heart2Soul]

Since the Ten Commandments are within the Law of Moses, they cannot be said to be "distinctly separate". However, they are the moral and spiritual laws of God, therefore eternal. And the Ten Commandments have been incorporated into the Law of Christ, as Paul clearly shows us. Once again:

TEN COMMANDMENTS----> TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS----> ONE SUPREME COMMANDMENT (the Law of Christ or the Law of Love).

God gave Moses the 10 Commandments that were written by His own finger.....so that is the only reason it is within Moses Laws.....Moses Laws were written and established by Moses, God's Commandments were written and established by God.
Moses Laws pertain to Jewish culture....God's Commandments pertain to all of mankind.

 

[Enoch111]

Moses Laws were written and established by Moses, God's Commandments were written and established by God.

Nothing that Moses wrote was of his own invention or origination. Every word in the Torah is a word of God. While it is called "the Law of Moses" (which is another term for the Old Covenant), it is actually "the Law of God given through Moses".

And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel... (Exod 19:3)

And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD. (Exod 19:9)

 

[justbyfaith]

Jeremiah 31:31 says the new covenant is for the house of Israel and Judah not the church, the body of Christ.

Clearly, the New Covenant is for Gentiles as well as Jews:

Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Doug]

This is another one of your stupid ideas. Sorry but I have to use the word "stupid" because the New Testament makes it crystal clear that the New Covenant is for the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, the Body of Christ), and the Church is under the New Covenant. So you should really study this matter carefully before making another comment.

How can you say the new covenant applies to the church today when it clearly says the new covenant is made with Israel?

If you make the new testament the new covenant, then I can see arriving at this error, as the church the body of Christ is indeed beneficiaries of the spiritual blessings of the new testament.

Let me clarify, if you have faith in the blood sacrifice of Christ for our forgiveness, and justification unto eternal life, and his imputed righteousness then we are not at odds of the essentials of salvation. We are considering details.

 

[justbyfaith]

'covenant' and 'testament' are synonymous terms in holy scripture.

 

[Doug]

Clearly, the New Covenant is for Gentiles as well as Jews:

Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Let me clarify right off, if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and rose for your justification, that he imputed his righteousness to you and your unrighteousness, then all we discuss is doctrine.
In this light, the Gentiles being of the same body, which is the body of Christ is not speaking of the new covenant, it is speaking of the mystery, hidden in God and revealed to Paul, that God was forming a new creature, the body of Christ, in which Jew and Gentile are made of the two, one new man.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let me clarify right off, if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and rose for your justification, that he imputed his righteousness to you and your unrighteousness, then all we discuss is doctrine.
In this light, the Gentiles being of the same body, which is the body of Christ is not speaking of the new covenant, it is speaking of the mystery, hidden in God and revealed to Paul, that God was forming a new creature, the body of Christ, in which Jew and Gentile are made of the two, one new man.

See post #106 (Christians and the Law of Moses).

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

Since the Ten Commandments are within the Law of Moses, they cannot be said to be "distinctly separate".

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

We can see that the law AND the ten commandments are separate. They are not lumped into 600 plus commandments called the law as the "many" claim. The reason they make this claim is to point to one liners which are usually talking about the law of circumcision and apply that one liner to the ten commandments. This is done to extreme with the book of Galatians

1 COR.7 [18] Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.[19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

In above scripture we find that even though circumcision was nailed to the cross, we are still to be keeping Gods ten commandments

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Jesus himself separates the law of Moses and the 10 commandments. He clearly separates the sabbath day {4th commandment} on which no work is to be done and the law of circumcision being done on the sabbath so as the law of Moses be not broken.

EXODUS 16 [28] AND THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, HOW LONG REFUSE YE TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS? [29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.[30] So the people rested on the seventh day.

Also the "many" will claim the laws and commandments were by the hand of Moses. Thats not what the Lord says.

 

[Enoch111]

How can you say the new covenant applies to the church today when it clearly says the new covenant is made with Israel?

Believing Israel was the *good olive tree* into which believing Gentiles were grafted in as branches of the *wild olive tree". And redeemed Jews and Gentiles constitute the Body of Christ (the Church). But you simply can get this through your head.

The New Covenant went into effect on the day Christ died and shed His blood to ratify the New Covenant. And Christ confirmed this at the Last Supper: For this is my blood of the New Testament [Covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Mt 26:28)

Its impact was felt 50 days later on the day of Pentecost (which prefigured a harvest of souls). So the New Covenant to Israel was fulfilled on that day when the promised Holy Spirit was poured out upon all flesh and given as a gift to believing Israel. BUT GENTILES WERE INCLUDED since Christ abolished the partition between Jew and Gentile at the cross, and the Abrahamic Covenant had already included both Jews and Gentiles in the Church. Therefore very shortly after that Gentiles were added to the Church.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

Believing Israel was the *good olive tree* into which believing Gentiles were grafted in as branches of the *wild olive tree". And redeemed Jews and Gentiles constitute the Body of Christ (the Church).

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

OK. So what does our Redeemer say about keeping the 10 commandments?

 

[Enoch111]

OK. So what does our Redeemer say about keeping the 10 commandments?

Since our Redeemer wrote those Ten Commandments with His own finger on two tablets of stone, that speaks for itself.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them...
And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God...
And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
(Exod 24:12; 31:18; 32:15,16)

This is the only time in Scripture when we find that God personally wrote something for mankind. So that speaks for itself.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

So Enoch, are we to keep Gods 4th commandment?

 

[justbyfaith]

The 4th commandment (the sabbath?) is fulfilled in Jesus Christ (see Matthew 11:28- 30)

Mat 11:28, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.

I will go farther than you anticipated......Love God and live as you please....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The way I always understood it is that when we Love God and Love our Neighbor as ourselves, then the will to sin against either one is no longer in us.....therefore with love we want to always do good to others and what is right in the sight of God. Love never fails.

You “ Understood” it correctly. Any Doctrine that does not boil down to a Love for God and a Love for Others is going to be Waaaay off the Mark....God orders us to REST in His Gospel Of Grace 1cor15:1-4 . Why is He so insistent on this “ Rest? “ So “ insistent “ that He will call you an “ UNbeliever” if you don’t obey Him in regard to it? It’s because He knows that the Rest is the Key to Everything.That “ Rest” ...That “Confidence “ in the FINISHED Work Of The Cross, Plus NOTHING for your Salvation produces in the New Heart a sense of Gratitude and Joy that leads to Love.....Love and Love Alone will Spur ,as a Natural off-shoot, the Obedience that God desires.....God bless..

 

[Heart2Soul]

You “ Understood” it correctly. Any Doctrine that does not boil down to a Love for God and a Love for Others is going to be Waaaay off the Mark....God orders us to REST in His Gospel Of Grace 1cor15:1-4 . Why is He so insistent on this “ Rest? “ So “ insistent “ that He will call you an “ UNbeliever” if you don’t obey Him in regard to it? It’s because He knows that the Rest is the Key to Everything.That “ Rest” ...That “Confidence “ in the FINISHED Work Of The Cross, Plus NOTHING for your Salvation produces in the New Heart a sense of Gratitude and Joy that leads to Love.....Love and Love Alone will Spur have as a Natural off-shoot the Obedience that God desires.....God bless..

Amen, and this rest is what He said to me 2 years ago. He told me to Rest in Him....(long story).

 

[Enoch111]

So Enoch, are we to keep Gods 4th commandment?

Absolutely. God set apart or sanctified the 7th day Sabbath as a day of rest for Israel. By the time Jesus cam to earth it was also a day of worship in the synagogues (as we note in the Gospels). And then Jesus showed the Jews that it was also a day for good works (and He performed many healing miracles on Sabbath days to establish that).

Following the resurrection of Christ THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK became the Christian Sabbath -- a day for rest, worship, and good works. So everything pertaining to the 4th commandment is still valid, but now it is the eighth day, rather than the seventh.

That is also because Christ Himself is the eternal Sabbath (or rest) of the believer: For we which have believed do enter into rest*, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (Heb 4:3)

*Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2663: κατάπαυσις (katapausis)
2. In the Greek Scriptures (the Sept. several times forמְנוּחָה) intransitive, a resting, rest: ἡμέρα τῆςκαταπαύσεώς, the day of rest, the sabbath, 2 Macc. 15:1; τόπος τῆς καταπαύσεώς μου, where I may rest,Acts 7:49. Metaphorically, ἡ κατάπαυσις τοῦ Θεοῦ, the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended: Hebrews 3:11, 18; Hebrews 4:1, 3, 5, 10f

The Seventh Day Adventists take exception to this, but the New Testament and the testimony of early Christians confirms that the first day of the week was indeed the Christian sabbath.

 

[Doug]

Believing Israel was the *good olive tree* into which believing Gentiles were grafted in as branches of the *wild olive tree". And redeemed Jews and Gentiles constitute the Body of Christ (the Church).

You are right, Gentiles were grafted into the good tree, however, they were Gentiles who were part of the believing remnant of Israel not the body of Christ. They were in Christ before Paul and before the body of Christ was formed.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

The Seventh Day Adventists take exception to this, but the New Testament and the testimony of early Christians confirms that the first day of the week was indeed the Christian sabbath.

And where do i find these testimonies from these early Christians? Have you found any scriptures from the bible that make that claim?