Grace vs Legalism

[BarneyFife]

Ecc 3:14, I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Salvation is the gift of the Lord, Romans 6:23.

And the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance, Romans 11:29.

For every man-made doctrine there are 100 proof texts to support it. It either harmonizes with the entirety of scripture or it doesn't.

God has always allowed freedom of choice to his beings with reasoning powers. God is not interested in obedient robots. If it were not so we wouldn't be in this mess. How many of God's people do you find in the Bible being forced into allegiance to Him?

 

[BarneyFife]

Again, I rest on what John 10.27-29 clearly says:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

And, again, I'm no interloper. You just rest to your heart's content. I'm a common seed-sower. If the seed is good and falls on fertile ground, God will give the increase.

 

[justbyfaith]

For every man-made doctrine there are 100 proof texts to support it. It either harmonizes with the entirety of scripture or it doesn't.

God has always allowed freedom of choice to his beings with reasoning powers. God is not interested in obedient robots. If it were not so we wouldn't be in this mess. How many of God's people do you find in the Bible being forced into allegiance to Him?

God most certainly doesn't make us into robots.

He transforms us from being dogs or swine into being sheep.

A dog returns to its vomit and a pig to its wallowing in the mire.

Sheep despise vomit and mud; and will only partake of it involuntarily.

Put a pig in the palace and it will run back to the mud the first chance it gets.

Put a sheep in the mud and it will run to water the first chance it gets.

So you see, we are not made into mindless robots; but God does change our very nature so that we do not desire to sin any longer as true believers.

Our new disposition is our salvation; it has nothing to do with whether we are currently located in the mud. If we despise the mud and would run to the water, God knows that we are His.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I corrected my post.

From what to what? You are still quoting 1 John 1:8, a verse that is BEFORE someone becomes a Christian with the next verse? The two together is the whole context. If anyone can only relate to vs. 8, then they haven't become a Christian, and are like all the unsaved sinners of the world.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How many times do you have to be told that the sin nature has NOT been eradicated, hence all the exhortations to walk in the Spirit and mortify the "flesh"?

Do you believe a Christian is in the flesh, or in the Spirit?

 

[BarneyFife]

No one who has the fear of the LORD in them will walk away from Him. Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), Psalms 19:9 (kjv).

Yeah, you said that already.

You were saying that someone with faith can lose their salvation because of disobedience.

I would never say such a thing. You've got me confused with someone else.

However, our position in the Lord is not based on our keeping the law, our performance, or our not sinning against Him (Galatians 2:16). It is based on faith.

You'd better hope it's on grace through faith or faith by grace. The distinction is important for those who are off the milk.

Truly, if we are disobedient, it can result in losing faith because we have hardened our hearts through the deceitfulness of sin.

Agreed

But disobedience, in and of itself, does not place a man outside of the sphere of God's grace.

Nothing ever can.

Most if not all Christians are disobedient at specific times of their lives. This is why we can only be saved through the grace of God.

Most emphatically agreed!

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you believe a Christian is in the flesh, or in the Spirit?

Ask her, Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? (she has me on Ignore).

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then not even "unintentional sins" any longer?

1 John 2a is about both. But Jesus is only our Advocate for trespasses, not willful sins of lawlessness. Did you know that? So it is possible to stay in the Spirit to that degree.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would never say such a thing. You've got me confused with someone else.

Yes, I had you confused with @Mr C.

 

[BarneyFife]

PS: These verses are so self-evident that there is no point in going round in circles.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little. (Isaiah 28:10)

 

[justbyfaith]

You'd better hope it's on grace through faith or faith by grace. The distinction is important for those who are off the milk.

It's both (Romans 5:2, Acts of the Apostles 18:27).

 

[justbyfaith]

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little. (Isaiah 28:10)

Using that method, they will go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (Isaiah 28:13).

It is important to read through entire books of scripture and get everything in its immediate context.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe a Christian is in the flesh, or in the Spirit?

Ideally all Christians should be in the Spirit -- totally controlled by God the Holy Spirit in their thoughts, words, and actions. Living soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12)

But the "flesh" (the old sin nature) is still there and has not been eradicated (totally removed by God), and if a Christian allows the flesh to take control (and it has no business taking control, since "Sin SHALL NOT have dominion over you), then here is the result (Gal 5:19-21):

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;

1. Adultery,
2. fornication,
3. uncleanness,
4. lasciviousness,
5. Idolatry,
6. witchcraft,
7. hatred,
8. variance,
9. emulations,
10. wrath,
11. strife,
12. seditions,
13. heresies,
14. Envyings,
15. murders,
16. drunkenness,
17. revellings,
18. and such like:

...of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What is Paul saying at the end? That if a person habitually practices any of these sins, he or she will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Since they really do not have the new nature, but are living in the control of the old nature.

 

[amadeus]

Wow! This place is like the Wild West compared to CF.com!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ideally all Christians should be in the Spirit -- totally controlled by God the Holy Spirit in their thoughts, words, and actions. Living soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12)

But the "flesh" (the old sin nature) is still there and has not been eradicated (totally removed by God), and if a Christian allows the flesh to take control (and it has no business taking control, since "Sin SHALL NOT have dominion over you), then here is the result (Gal 5:19-21):

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;

1. Adultery,
2. fornication,
3. uncleanness,
4. lasciviousness,
5. Idolatry,
6. witchcraft,
7. hatred,
8. variance,
9. emulations,
10. wrath,
11. strife,
12. seditions,
13. heresies,
14. Envyings,
15. murders,
16. drunkenness,
17. revellings,
18. and such like:

...of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What is Paul saying at the end? That if a person habitually practices any of these sins, he or she will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Since they really do not have the new nature, but are living in the control of the old nature.

Yes, I think I can agree to that. But I also think only for younger Christians in the Lord. We must keeping growing more and more like Christ for we have been given the mind of Christ. When we were immature in the Lord we were required to only live up to the degree we had knowledge according to Philippians 3:16. But 2 Peter 1:5-11 shows when we are mature we can grow to the strength that we never stumble.

 

[amadeus]

Slow down.

Can a Spirit filled Christian commit murder?

Why did Paul write this?

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why did Paul write this?

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

amadeus, I hope you didn't misunderstand @marks. But, I do believe he has misunderstood the heresies Behold is teaching, because marks says they are on the "same page." Yikes!

 

[amadeus]

Again, I rest on what John 10.27-29 clearly says:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

And are not there some who hear a voice but without the love of the Truth, their idea that it is His voice is a delusion?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

 

[amadeus]

amadeus, I hope you didn't misunderstand @marks. But, I do believe he has misunderstood the heresies Behold is teaching, because marks says they are on the "same page." Yikes!

I hear you sister! I stopped reading much that Behold writes here anymore. He is the teacher, he says. What does God say? But... there are always some who like to have their ears tickled. Hopefully marks is not too quickly climbing aboard that train.

 

[Candidus]

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

1 John 3:9 9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."