What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?

[charity]

Honestly, what will our edge over Lucifer, and Adam and Eve be?

UPDATE: I can't understand why Christian people are so ready to tell people (even other Christians) whom they don't even know that they "don't understand the Gospel?" I'm not asking for informational purposes, and it's not meant to be a quiz or imply that I have knowledge unavailable to other Christians or even other people, in general. For many people, the Gospel is as simple as "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) and for them, the rest is just window-dressing. More power to them, I say. I like to dig a little deeper, myself. My purpose here is simply to provoke thought and stimulate discussion. That's all. I'm not looking to "school" anybody. Honestly. I have a theory, but I'm not sure I'm anxious to put a bullseye on it right away. I don't believe that helps to encourage participation in a positive way. Whenever a line in the sand is drawn in a thread by the OP the conversation will (9 times out of 10) descend into a partisan debate, which is when the barbs really start to come out flying.

The thought question is very simple (however frustrating and elusive it may be to some):

What tangible thing will we have at our disposal that the 3 original sinners did not have that will keep us from falling as they did?

There are implications to this question that will occur to many, such as: fairness to the original 3 (e.g. will our advantage constitute unfairness to them?) For some of us, these implications can't just be summarily dismissed. God's honor must be vindicated. Many feel that full disclosure is very important to Him, à la John 16:12. The original 3 fell to temptation, albeit Lucifer somehow must have tempted himself and apparently did not repent as did the Edenic pair. I do not believe an explanation that involves just any theorized difference between our glorified nature and theirs is satisfactory. I pondered this question for over 40 years before stumbling onto an article that made me think there might actually be a solution.

'The first man is of the earth, earthy:
.. the second man is the Lord from heaven.
.... As is the earthy,
...... such are they also that are earthy:
........ and as is the heavenly,
.......... such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.'
(1 Corinthians 15:47)

Hello @BarnyFife,

This is the difference.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mjrhealth]

Okay.

Yes I know you love your religion. Is there any reason why others should leave theirs when you will not even leave yours .

 

[Brakelite]

Yes I know you love your religion. Is there any reason why others should leave theirs when you will not even leave yours .

What religion?

 

[mjrhealth]

What religion?

What did you leave the SDA religion??

 

[Brakelite]

What did you leave the SDA religion??

So tell us. You certainly have some animosity against what you call religion, and you also have that same animosity against denominations, and in particular, seventh Day Adventist. So, please explain the basis upon which you conflate the two, and specifically why they are so objectionable.
Oh, and an edit. What does your objection have to do with the topic at hand?

 

[Truther]

The sin nature produces the sin. Romans 6:2 we are dead to sin, so what produces the sin no longer controls us. There is no battle. We partake of the divine nature because that old sin nature has been born again. The old is gone as long as we do not revive it and quench the Spirit like a dog returning to its vomit.

According to chapter 7, the sin nature is at active war against the spirit man...


14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

 

[Truther]

He is not an unbeliever, that's the point. He even takes his wife to church.

Believers don't do what he did.

Even the devils believe....

 

[BarneyFife]

Even more so, when one is willing to give up ones religion and all they think the know and Go to Christ an learn from Him, but so few are willing and love their religions more than Him

Non-denom can become a religion, too.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The "tree of life" is our Lord Jesus Christ, who we read about in Genesis 2:9. Well, how can that be? Remember in Revelation 21:6, he said, "... I am [always was] Alpha and Omega... ". Jesus existed prior to becoming a baby in the manger in Bethlehem. However, this "tree of life" is a certain tree, providing not only fruit for enjoyment, but its leaves give a divine provision for preserving and restoring health, specifically for the nations.

Ezekiel 47:12 "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."

shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: Lamentations It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. [23] They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 4:10-11 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. [11] For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.


shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: Isaiah 61:3-4 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified. (John 15:8) And they shall build (1 Corinthians 3:10-11 the old wastes,(Broken down places) they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

it shall bring forth new fruit Matthew 13:23 which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. Luke 5:30-31 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? [31] And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.


because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary(The ‘Pure’ River of Life proceeding out from the throne of God):Yes as @Waiting on him pointed out...He said ...I am the Bread, and the Water of Life...if any thirst after righteousness let him drink of the Living water springing up unto Life, not futuristic but Today.
would be cautious in saying to eat of the Tree of Life is futuristic when Christ said if one does not eat of Him, they have no life in them.


1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. [40] And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The pure river of Life, the Tree of Life ...you will not come to me ‘and drink’ ‘eat’ that you might have Life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@BarnyFife



Your question does not define "the resurrection". Consider this conversation I had with @VictoryinJesus last year, which I saved to my computer:



Time is not an issue with God, but with men. Anyone truly already born again [born from above or born of God] has already been resurrected... that is, risen from the death in which we all existed as 'walking dead' [?] before we met Jesus.

What I see is men growing now to be like Him now while still in the process of overcoming. This is those who have already been resurrected [born again]. Can we still in this situation disobey God? While it is never a good idea, it is, I believe, certainly possible. Adam and Eve did... and I believe that we can. When our course here [allotted time as a man of flesh subject to temptations] if finished will we still be tempted? That depends I would say upon exactly where we are then. Now as I believe it there are the three heavens. If heavenly angels [as opposed to men sent as messengers by God] did sin in heaven, I don't believe it was ever in 3rd heaven. I don't believe it is possible in 3rd heaven. But I won't get into details on what the three heavens might be and really derail your thread.




Another something for certain!



He has, I believe, spoken to anyone who has ever been in a measure a real believer in Him. Understanding this may help us to know what it means to be one of His sheep:

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

It is better to be a sheep than to be a goat as being on the right hand of God is better than being on His left hand!

thought of you this morning and the better resurrection. This stands out Acts 20:8-10 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. [9] And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. [10] And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. Acts 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

John 6:53-57 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

 

[CharismaticLady]

According to chapter 7, the sin nature is at active war against the spirit man...


14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

"but I am carnal, sold under sin."

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Your verses you are holding on to for some reason are those who know and abide by the Law of Moses. Romans 7:1 There are Christians who know about Jesus and want Him to save them from the punishment of hell, who still only know the Ten Commandments and abide by them in their own strength, but they still don't know the power of God living inside them freeing them from the reason for the Law in the first place - SIN, and the lust of the flesh. The law is not written on their hearts. For them you are right - "the sin nature is at active war against the spirit man..." But that "spirit man" is not yet a partaker of the divine nature. That takes the power of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ, has FREED ME from the law of SIN AND DEATH.

Jesus not only freed us from Adam's curse of "the wages of sin is death," but gives us life eternally.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Believers don't do what he did.

Even the devils believe....

He is a backslider. But there was a time when he was a pastor. I do not believe in OSAS, as some do about backsliders, but I will err on the side of God's Word.

10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

I'll keep my part, whether he ever repents or not.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes I know you love your religion. Is there any reason why others should leave theirs when you will not even leave yours .

What does this have to do with the OP? Why do threads descend to this level and go off topic?

The title of the thread should have been "Why is sin TOTALLY EXCLUDED from Heaven?". That would resolve all related issues.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What does this have to do with the OP? Why do threads descend to this level and go off topic?

The title of the thread should have been "Why is sin TOTALLY EXCLUDED from Heaven?". That would resolve all related issues.

Are you saying that there will be no one committing sin in heaven, then I agree? But if you are saying they were sinners when they died, I believe Revelation 22:11 says otherwise. And I'm talking about ACTUAL righteousness and holiness, not something imputed but shows no change in the individual.

 

[Enoch111]

Are you saying that there will be no one committing sin in heaven, then I agree?

Yes. That is exactly what I am talking about. Sin is impossible within Heaven, since God has now made it so.

But if you are saying they were sinners when they died, I believe Revelation 22:11 says otherwise.

Correct. No unredeemed sinners can ever enter Heaven.

And I'm talking about ACTUAL righteousness and holiness, not something imputed but shows no change in the individual.

Actual righteousness and holiness are required in the people of God, but it is only the robe of the righteousness of Christ (called fine linen, white and clean) that makes it possible for even the redeemed and obedient saints to enter Heaven. That is the lesson from the parable of the Gospel feast. That "wedding garment" is indeed the righteousness of Christ, therefore the saints are the Bride of Christ and will become the Wife of the Lamb.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes. That is exactly what I am talking about. Sin is impossible within Heaven, since God has now made it so.

Correct. No unredeemed sinners can ever enter Heaven.

Actual righteousness and holiness are required in the people of God, but it is only the robe of the righteousness of Christ (called fine linen, white and clean) that makes it possible for even the redeemed and obedient saints to enter Heaven. That is the lesson from the parable of the Gospel feast. That "wedding garment" is indeed the righteousness of Christ, therefore the saints are the Bride of Christ and will become the Wife of the Lamb.

This is where I have trouble following your line of thought, you proclaim He has entered in, yet you say this is a futuristic event??
Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Does it seem that some belief is that flesh is the sinner not the person inside the flesh ?
If you get saved you are saved from the flesh sin nature, but when your flesh dies you are now free from sin ?
When you go to heaven you have a new body with no sin in it and your mind is free from sin. ?
So is Jesus saving us by giving us a new body without sin ?
He made us free from sin by us dying first, but we get a resurrection to life in a sinless body.
Our inner man heart has nothing to do with it, its thoughts don't have to change at all ?
Since the (sin nature?) flesh body is the ruling element of our heart, it can't change till the body dies.
We will be fixed in not sinning anymore by a new body ?

Power in the body.

confusing thoughts

 

[Enoch111]

This is where I have trouble following your line of thought, you proclaim He has entered in, yet you say this is a futuristic event??
Makes absolutely no sense.

Until you remember that we are already seated in the heavenlies with Christ Jesus. Don't try to use human reasoning to understand spiritual truths. All the OT saints + the NT saints are already in Heaven through the blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BarneyFife]

The transformation from the old man to the new man is not the same for every person. But it does have a progression. The first phase is unconscious incompetence. It's when you have no idea that what you're doing is wrong. 2nd is conscious incompetence, when you know it's wrong, but you're not losing sleep over it yet. 3rd is conscious competence, when you realize your behavior could wind up costing you dearly, and you begin to take steps to reform. The 4th phase is unconscious competence. This is the point at which you've learned and been motivated to do what's right for so long that it becomes natural, so to speak. Much of this process can take place very quickly for some believers. But others struggle with their own sinful natures for many years before overcoming. This is a psychological phenomenon, and can also take place with non-believers. The difference is that the believer has more access to the power of love from Christ because he knows to ask for it. This makes the yoke easy and the burden light. Whereas the non-believer knows not Who is helping him. Often the believer who is blessed with a quicker process compared to his brethren mistakes this for special favor from God or even hard work of his own doing. But could the veil be taken away, he would see the difference between his own level of holiness and that of God's. Then, the difference between his level and his brethren would look like nothing. This is why we are told that we ought to esteem others better than ourselves, among other reasons. We often have no idea what our brethren have had to overcome. Any advantage or benefit we have makes us debtors to them in the eyes of God. We know not how practical the faith of Jesus really is. It is out on loan to us. We are stewards of everything we possess.

 

[mjrhealth]

So tell us. You certainly have some animosity against what you call religion, and you also have that same animosity against denominations, and in particular, seventh Day Adventist. So, please explain the basis upon which you conflate the two, and specifically why they are so objectionable.
Oh, and an edit. What does your objection have to do with the topic at hand?

You meant the bit where it says, come out of her my people. Or the part where it all abut you following after the doctrines of men. Christ isnt a religion, I guess you havnt figurered that out yet, They worship me with there lips