Grace vs Legalism

[justbyfaith]

When this happens, your sin consciousness will fade,

I actually do not have any sin consciousness.

But the fact that I am not conscious of sin does not mean that I have no sin dwelling within me.

I take the word of the Lord at face value that if I were to say that I had no sin, the sin of self-deception would be right there in me.

I think, also, that 1 Corinthians 4:4 states most clearly where I am coming from.

I am not without sin merely because I am not aware of sin dwelling within me.

The moment I begin to proclaim that I am without sin, I have crossed the line into self-deception; and that is sin.

 

[marks]

In Romans 7:18 Paul declares that he is his flesh...For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing...

OK, I understand how you are seeing this. That helps.

I see this as Paul saying that there is nothing good dwelling in him, but by 'him', he means his flesh. And I see this reinforced later:

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

It is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me, that is, in my flesh, is how I understand this.

And so I don't see Paul identifying with his flesh. Rather that his flesh is where sin lives.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the
law of sin.

I myself, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, that flesh where nothing good lives - nothing good - not a mixture - where sin lives - with the flesh the law of sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The false teachers actually teach that grace is a license for immorality...that grace means you can do whatever you want...even if what you want is to do the ungodly thing.

I've never actually heard someone teach that. That grace makes sin OK? Who says that?

 

[marks]

I ALWAYS have my armor on, lol!

BTW . . . you're a breath of fresh air!

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I've never actually heard someone teach that. That grace makes sin OK? Who says that?

@Behold does....haven't you been paying attention?

 

[marks]

Not born again, and then lost...but that we can have faith, and thus be saved temporarily, and then be lost, if we fall away.

So . . . saved by faith, but not born again? Is that what you mean?

Much love!

 

[marks]

My faith is wholly and completely in Christ and what He did for me on the Cross, to get me into heaven.

What if you don't keep your faith? Will He still get you into heaven?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

So . . . saved by faith, but not born again? Is that what you mean?

Much love!

Right...justified by faith and born of God are two different things.

He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5).

However, those who are born of God are not ungodly (1 John 3:9).

I would identify being born of God as a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

 

[justbyfaith]

What if you don't keep your faith? Will He still get you into heaven?

Much love!

Then my faith would no longer be in Christ and what He did for me. Do you believe that such a person will still go to heaven?

Let me ask you this...if someone doesn't believe in Jesus and what He did for them now, will they go to heaven if they died tonight?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

BTW . . . you're a breath of fresh air!

Much love!

Hey, I’ll take that! I’ve been called other things that aren’t so nice.

 

[farouk]

Hey, I’ll take that! I’ve been called other things.

@Prayer Warrior Well, I agree with his comment...

 

[marks]

@Behold does....haven't you been paying attention?

Please show me where @Behold approves of sin. I haven't seen that.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Please show me where @Behold approves of sin. I haven't seen that.

Much love!

He teaches that "the works of the flesh" aren't sins.

I believe that, he also teaches that a man can lose faith in Jesus, and/or stop living and walking holy, and will still be saved.

 

[marks]

Then my faith would no longer be in Christ and what He did for me. Do you believe that such a person will still go to heaven?

This is the question I'm asking you.

If you don't keep your faith, will Jesus still "get you into heaven"? I'm not asking to give my answer, it's the wrong question. I'm asking for if you want to share your answer, what you believe about this.

I'll give you my answer. I never want to withhold anything. Having been reborn, and now being alive in Christ, my faith in Him will remain secure. I have an anchor, both sure and steadfast, holding me.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

This is the question I'm asking you.

If you don't keep your faith, will Jesus still "get you into heaven"? I'm not asking to give my answer, it's the wrong question. I'm asking for if you want to share your answer, what you believe about this.

I'll give you my answer. I never want to withhold anything. Having been reborn, and now being alive in Christ, my faith in Him will remain secure. I have an anchor, both sure and steadfast, holding me.

Much love!

I believe that it is heresy to teach that a man is still saved after falling away from faith.

But I am interested in your take on it and what biblical justification you might have for your pov.

 

[marks]

Right...justified by faith and born of God are two different things.

He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5).

However, those who are born of God are not ungodly (1 John 3:9).

I would identify being born of God as a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

OK, I understand. Well, I don't actually. How can you be justified without being reborn? Do you mean justified in the same way as Abraham? Declared innocent, but not recreated with God's nature?

Justification isn't just a declaration, so far as I see. Justification is making us righteous through death and resurrection. Death is the end result of sin, and in Christ we die. Life is being raised with Him. Do you see rebirth as something different than this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

He teaches that "the works of the flesh" aren't sins.
I believe that, he also teaches that a man can lose faith in Jesus, and/or stop living and walking holy, and will still be saved.

I've not had that discussion with him, I'll save it for to discuss with him. From what I know of what he says, I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that.

But at the end of the day it comes down to this. Is Jesus keeping you saved, or are you keeping you saved?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe that it is heresy to teach that a man is still saved after falling away from faith.

But I am interested in your take on it and what biblical justification you might have for your pov.

I become disinclined as you continue to refuse a simple question concerning the application of your teaching.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've not had that discussion with him, I'll save it for to discuss with him. From what I know of what he says, I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that.

But at the end of the day it comes down to this. Is Jesus keeping you saved, or are you keeping you saved?

Much love!

Jesus is keeping me saved, because I remain connected to (am abiding in) Him.

His blood continues to sanctify me (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and to cleanse me (1 John 1:7).

He keeps me saved through my connection to Him. Because I abide in Him, I do not sin (1 John 3:6). And I can abide in Him for evermore (1 John 2:17...Hebrews 10:14).

 

[justbyfaith]

I become disinclined as you continue to refuse a simple question concerning the application of your teaching.

How have I refused your question? I believe that I have answered it.