The Decoy Gospel

[CharismaticLady]

Believing Jesus is not bondage it is faith. We are saved by grace through faith, you keep adding works to it, Is His grace not enough for you,

How is Jesus freeing me of sin somehow my works. It's the work of Jesus.

 

[Candidus]

Let me ask you . . .

Were I to say that sinless perfection is completely possible in this life as a theological possibility, and yet we can know that it won't actually be achieved in this life, as we know we will continue to be improved so long as we are in these bodies, do you agree?

Much love!

When you say "sinless perfection" what do you mean? Where do you get your definition? Who teaches that?

 

[Candidus]

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

The key word there is "covered." Paul is talking about the Old Covenant where the blood of bulls and goats COVERS sin, while they remain, of those under the Ten Commandments - the Law of Moses, and the Old Covenant, and also all those before the Law, like Abraham. He trusted God, and obeyed Him, and it was counted unto him as righteousness.

The New Covenant is where Jesus TAKES AWAY our sin; it is not merely COVERED. Also it is only our PAST sins that are taken away. 2 Peter 1:9. Why, because when total repentance is accomplished, Jesus gives us grace - the power of God's sinless Spirit, that gives us a new nature that has lost the desire to sin. 2 Peter 1:2-4. Our conscience becomes super-sensitive by the Holy Spirit, and it is too hard to go against your new nature of righteousness. Instead, you follow your Spirit-filled conscience. 1 John 3:21.

Romans 4 is still talking about the Law of the Old Covenant. In the New Covenant righteousness is no longer just imputed as to an Old Testament saint.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness IS righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

Jesus in us is the huge difference between Romans 4 vs. Romans 6 and 8.

Also, the word "impute." This is only with regards to Old Testament Jews. In Romans 4, Paul is teaching on the Law which is going away, and introducing grace in chapter 5. But grace doesn't mean what you think it means. The word "imputed" is only found in these two chapters, but they MUST be understood in context of the following chapter 6, and the concluding chapter 8 - THE SPIRIT. To base a whole doctrine on set-up chapters like 4 and 5, where the law is abolished, leaves one believing there is no law, you can sin with no consequences. That is exactly what you've done, but not you alone. How many on the forum believe that Jesus came to take away the consequences of sin? That makes God the author of licentiousness. God forbid! Romans 6:1-2 and 15. The New Covenant has new laws - laws of the Spirit, where the eternal law of God is written on our hearts (conscience).

GRACE:

2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The grace of God FREES US FROM SIN. Not the consequences. The wages of sin is still death. But once you start following your conscience, and never going against it, you have assurance before God. It is easy. His yoke is easy, and His burden is light. The Spirit is doing ALL the heavy lifting.

Romans 6:
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

How one defines and applies the word "impute" is where the divide comes in. Some erroneously believe that "imputed righteousness" in Romans 4 is "a mystical transfer of character from one person to another." The Greek simply mean to "count," "account," or "reckon" righteous. There is no mystical transfer of character in the English word to "impute" or in the Greek, yet the term is often used that way.

When someone uses "impute" in favor of more clear and modern translations that say "count" or "accounted," "reckoned" usually it indicates that the person is likely favoring a definition or understanding that is just not Biblical, or lexically accurate.

Romans 4 in the King James uses the term as impute, recon, counted, reckoned, for the same Greek word in this chapter. All are technically accurate, but the term "impute" is ambiguous or unknown to most modern readers. In this chapter, sometimes it is faith that is imputed, and sometimes it is righteousness imputed.

The question has been posed from Philippians 3:9 "and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ-the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." But does the questioner presume that this is "a mystical transfer of righteousness from one person to another"? No, it is not! That is theological fiction. You can no more transfer honesty to a liar, than you can transfer wisdom to a fool. Character is not transferable.

Paul does not consider his Law keeping to be the grounds of his righteousness, but that which comes through faith in Christ. The question is, what is Paul asserting. When we come to Christ and he forgives our past sins, how many sins are unforgiven? None! So, in that moment, it is not a transfer of character from one to another, but a judicial standing. There is nothing in that moment that stands against that persons record. This is not a fictional righteousness, but a real righteousness that one has if their sins are forgiven.

 

[mjrhealth]

@farouk and @mjrhealthand @mailmandan

I asked Enoch these questions and would also like your answer. He thinks I'm a heretic.

All of the above, like I said that spirit in you cannot sin, your flesh is a different matter, He didnt come to save your flesh. But as I said to your mate, for someone who supposedly overcome sin you are very focused on it.

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you remember what James said to your question? Faith without works is dead. Is your faith dead?

Whos works yours or His, your works as all mens works are nothing, it is His works that count. My faith is in Christ not my works,

 

[Candidus]

All of the above, like I said that spirit in you cannot sin, your flesh is a different matter, He didnt come to save your flesh. But as I said to your mate, for someone who supposedly overcome sin you are very focused on it.

Thanks for the Gnostic point of view, but thank you, I will believe the Scriptural point of view.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks for the Gnostic point of view, but thank you, I will believe the Scriptural point of view.

Dont even know what that means.

 

[mjrhealth]

Now for God to impute righteousness means that the person is TRULY behaving righteously in God's sight.

Amen to that.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks for the Gnostic point of view, but thank you, I will believe the Scriptural point of view.

In fact I would far rather believe the one who is the truth, that paid the price in full, you know that bit , It is finished,

 

[Episkopos]

In fact I would far rather believe the one who is the truth, that paid the price in full, you know that bit , It is finished,

The carnal mind doesn't get to define for itself what is finished.

Jesus overcame sin in His race in order for us to do likewise with His grace.

Rev. 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Here is the lie and how many read the above verse: "The verse says I overcame instead of you because you can't do it and I can't make you do it. Just remain defeated...it's okay. I would be accusing you of works if you could do as I did by my grace. You honour me by sinning. So keep sinning. It's no big deal. Don't worry be happy."

The truth: We are to walk even as He walked and overcome even as He overcame. That is the biblical way of receiving the "it is finished." In Christ the war is over ....the battle is finished. We partake of His victory. And we walk in that victory over sin, the devil and this world...so that God is glorified.

But perversion and subversion has entered into the message of God's victorious provision of grace by the interjection of the carnal man who denies the power of the cross and the resurrection by claiming that we somehow overcome by remaining overpowered by sin. This brings shame to God.

So what is overcome?


For the many unbelievers that have invaded the church...nothing is overcome but the truth.

Truth is what is finished for these. Any chance of entering the kingdom is over. The choice of denying Christ has been made in favour of a fable that what is finished is God being holy. No more holiness...just the flesh with it's self-preservation seeking to exploit Jesus for themselves.

So in this scheme the narrow way becomes the broad way. The difficult entering in becomes easy-peasy. And once you accept the lie...nothing changes....the flesh still rules. God is still powerless to save for these..unless a paper god who they believe will save them dogmatically in an after life. There is no power from God for these. With these God is powerless....things ARE impossible for Him.

So much heresy...so much mockery. And look at the state of the world and the church that is following the world to perdition.

Where is the faith OF Christ?

 

[Episkopos]

Backward, Christian soldiers, fleeing from the fight,
With the cross of Jesus nearly out of sight.
Christ, our rightful Master, stands against the foe,
But forward into battle we are loathe to go.

Refrain:
Backward, Christian soldiers, fleeing from the fight,
With the cross of Jesus nearly out of sight.

Like a mighty tortoise moves the Church of God;
Brothers we are treading where we’ve always trod.
We are much divided, many bodies we,
Having many doctrines, not much charity.

Crowns and thorns may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
But the Church of Jesus hidden does remain.
Gates of hell should never ’gainst the Church prevail;
We have Christ’s own promise, but think that it will fail.

Sit here then ye people, join our useless throng,
Blend with ours your voices in a feeble song.
Blessings, ease and comfort, ask from Christ the King;
With our modern thinking, we don’t do a thing.

 

[mjrhealth]

Where is the faith OF Christ?

That is a good question, where is your faith in Christ, all you have done so far is condemn the whole world because it doesnt live up to your standard, you said grace is decietful and so demonized grace and made God like satan, you demand perfection from imperfect people , the whole reason why Christ went to that cross, the whole reason why grace is a gift, that you demand we pay for, it all ended at taht time when Jesus looked up and said. It is finished:, that is when it all ended, Christ didnt do half a job as you and @Candidus and @CharismaticLady seem to think, it is done, sin has being done away with, but you all love to stand there and cry out. look at ud =s God we are not like all those i-other sinners, but you see they can all see through your facades, God is not blind, you turn His precious lambs from Him, you cause men to stumble, you make Him out to be a hard taskmaster, you tread grace underfoot.

We all became righteous when we put on His righteousness it doent fail like you think it does, He cam full of grace and truth not just enough.

 

[mjrhealth]

Gates of hell should never ’gainst the Church prevail;

And may I ask, which church is that??

 

[Candidus]

Dont even know what that means.

Those that have replaced Christianity with Gnosticism cannot see it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why did Jesus come according to Romans 4?
To free us from sin?
To free us from the law, and the consequences of sin?
Which one?

If I were to answer that Jesus came to free us from sin, would you think that heretical? That's what you've said to me in the past.

If I were to say I base my belief on 1 John 3:5 and John 8:34-36, would that still be heretical?

He came to help us with both

he freed us from the penalty of sin (justification)

in doing so he showed his unfailing love. Which frees us from the power of sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you remember what James said to your question? Faith without works is dead. Is your faith dead?

James spoke to licentious people who were hearers and never doers yet claimed to have faith

so let’s get context right to help us interpret right

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And may I ask, which church is that??

Good question

 

[Candidus]

That is a good question, where is your faith in Christ, all you have done so far is condemn the whole world because it doesnt live up to your standard, you said grace is decietful and so demonized grace and made God like satan, you demand perfection from imperfect people , the whole reason why Christ went to that cross, the whole reason why grace is a gift, that you demand we pay for, it all ended at taht time when Jesus looked up and said. It is finished:, that is when it all ended, Christ didnt do half a job as you and @Candidus and @CharismaticLady seem to think, it is done, sin has being done away with, but you all love to stand there and cry out. look at ud =s God we are not like all those i-other sinners, but you see they can all see through your facades, God is not blind, you turn His precious lambs from Him, you cause men to stumble, you make Him out to be a hard taskmaster, you tread grace underfoot.

We all became righteous when we put on His righteousness it doent fail like you think it does, He cam full of grace and truth not just enough.

This is an example of what happens when you marry Gnostic Philosophy with Biblical interpretation.

 

[marks]

When you say "sinless perfection" what do you mean? Where do you get your definition? Who teaches that?

Compete sanctification. That we always walk in faith, therefore always do God's will, that's what I mean.

So let me rephrase my thought.

As a theological possiblity, I believe that we can be completely sanctified in this life, and that in our complete sanctification we will be walking in faith all the time, however, as a practical reality, God will continue to improve us throughout the remainder of our lives, and this fact demonstrates that we will continue to require improvement, or sanctification.

You're right, this "sinless perfection" doesn't really say what I'm meaning to say. It's a legalist term. It's not about whether we never do the wrong things, rather, that we always do the right things.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[marks]

How one defines and applies the word "impute" is where the divide comes in. Some erroneously believe that "imputed righteousness" in Romans 4 is "a mystical transfer of character from one person to another." The Greek simply mean to "count," "account," or "reckon" righteous. There is no mystical transfer of character in the English word to "impute" or in the Greek, yet the term is often used that way.

I agree with you that the word means to account, or reckon. But when God says to account yourself dead to sin and alive unto God, are to we account something that isn't true?

Much love!