For The 9999th Time, OSAS (Albeit Testimony Time)

[Truther]

God knew Jeremiah before he was born because God is outside of time.



Jesus was God before He was born...He pre-existed as the Father.

Consider:

Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So, Jesus is the everlasting Father. And therefore if the Father is a separate Person from Him, that would make two fathers: a contradiction in the holy scriptures.

If God made Jesus God...then Jesus is a God separate from the God who made Him God...I count two Gods in that equation.

But if God the Father became flesh in the Person of the Son, God is Triune in nature and distinctly human in the Person of the Son.

Great post.

Now, re-look at Isaiah 9:6.

The baby is born the Everlasting Father or the baby will someday be called the Everlasting Father....


6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given(PRESENT TENSE):



and the government shall(FUTURE TENSE) be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


This is what I have been saying all along....after he was resurrected from the dead, the Col 2:9 effect happened to his body and the Everlasting Father fully entered into his omnipresent spirit body.

This made the son, the Everlasting Father/Mighty God etc.,by default.

 

[justbyfaith]

Great post.

Now, re-look at Isaiah 9:6.

The baby is born the Everlasting Father or the baby will someday be called the Everlasting Father....


6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given(PRESENT TENSE):



and the government shall(FUTURE TENSE) be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


This is what I have been saying all along....after he was resurrected from the dead, the Col 2:9 effect happened to his body and the Everlasting Father fully entered into his omnipresent spirit body.

This made the son, the Everlasting Father/Mighty God etc.,by default.

First of all, Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3 (kjv), 2 John 1:7 (kjv)).

And therefore He exists in a finite human body today; not an omnipresent spirit body.

His Spirit was indeed released into eternity in Luke 23:46; and in this the Person of the Son, in the form of the Holy Ghost, rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10).

But the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ, even while he walked the earth, was the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

Thus you have the Father and the Holy Ghost dwelling side-by-side in eternity; the Father being the Word (John 1:1).

 

[Truther]

First of all, Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3 (kjv), 2 John 1:7 (kjv)).

And therefore He exists in a finite human body today; not an omnipresent spirit body.

His Spirit was indeed released into eternity in Luke 23:46; and in this the Person of the Son, in the form of the Holy Ghost, rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10).

But the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ, even while he walked the earth, was the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

Thus you have the Father and the Holy Ghost dwelling side-by-side in eternity; the Father being the Word (John 1:1).

Were all, individually, come in the flesh from 2 people.

Same with Jesus....Mary and God, creating a baby.

You seem to think these verses imply the SPIRIT is come in the flesh, which is unscriptural and an RCC presupposition, originating in a form of gnosticism.

 

[justbyfaith]

Were all, individually, come in the flesh from 2 people.

Same with Jesus....Mary and God, creating a baby.

You seem to think these verses imply the SPIRIT is come in the flesh, which is unscriptural and an RCC presupposition, originating in a form of gnosticism.

The Word was God (John 1:1)...God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24)...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).

This is not based in gnosticism but in the word of the Lord.

 

[amadeus]

And I will disagree with you. No one who denies the Christ is 100 percent man and 100 percent God is a Christian. The Bible is not meant to be looked at alone, that is why there are Satan people who deny Christ is 100 percent man and 100 percent God. I stand with the Church Fathers and St. Nicholas against the satanist who deny that Christ came in the flesh such as the liar in this thread named Truther who does not know the truth. So yes it is my place, only a bible onlyist would say it is not our place. I live by the Creeds and the Testimony of the Church Fathers, and the Church not just one book alone.

Who is looking at the Bible alone? Not me! I look to God and His Son. I expect to be led by the Holy Spirit as I read the Bible and as I walk through this carnal existence moving or being moved toward Him.

As to there being a "liar" in this thread, the Apostle Paul quoted the OT when he wrote this:

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,..." Rom 3:4

Every man who does not understand at all, or does not fully or correctly understands, and speaks as if he did understand, is a liar when he speaks... even if it is an unintentional lie. That certainly includes me. Would you exclude yourself saying that every time you speak about the things of God you speak the absolute truth and that you never make mistake with regard to God and the things of God? I think not. Even the Pope in Rome claims such infallibility only when he speaks ex cathedra. Yes, until we are equal in every way to Jesus it seems to me that we are all liars, so why insult a person by calling him a liar because you disagree with something he says that he believes?

Now if the OP wanted to talk about Miaphysitism where Christ divine nature and human nature are united in a compound nature that is one thing but the OP have been trying to promulgate heresies of Docetism, Arianism or Nestorianism denying Christ humanity. Look through the thread. It would be one thing if he was a newbie and did quite grasp the concept but he is not and spew heresies can hurt new Christians and old Christians alike. You may like heresies being bandied about but I do not and will call them out as the non Christians these people are. I will not be nice and be a doormat for people like the OP who tries to lead God's children astray

You will do as you please, whether it pleases God or not, because you apparently certain that it does... please Him that is. Be careful though in expressing your beliefs, that you do not unnecessarily call a person a rude name simply because you disagree with him. This is after all not a Catholic forum where only Catholic beliefs are allowed. Check with the forum rules or with a moderator.

 

[historyb]

You will do as you please, whether it pleases God or not, because you apparently certain that it does... please Him that is. Be careful though in expressing your beliefs, that you do not unnecessarily call a person a rude name simply because you disagree with him. This is after all not a Catholic forum where only Catholic beliefs are allowed. Check with the forum rules or with a moderator.

I AM NOT CATHOLIC!! STOP CALLING ME ONE!!!!! I AM A TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN WHAT YOU AND MAY OTHERS HATE!

I am not a evangelical nor Catholic and I do not hold standard protestant beliefs, more accurately modern evangelical beliefs like Dispensationalism, any type of rapture that modern evangelicals believe in, I believe that Revelations is not a future book but a book that is full of symbolism of hope for the early Christians. You could call me a partial Preterist though I might deviate from that a bit. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura I believe in Scripture with Tradition, I don't believe in Salvation by Faith alone but Salvation by God's Grace alone through faith, I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and I believe the filoque should not be in the Nicene creed, I believe in the absolute Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I believe in praying to the Saints.

YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT DEFENDING CHRISTIANITY BUT I DO. You may not care about defend Christ being 100 percent man and 100 percent God but I do. You may not care about orthodox (small o) Christianity but I do.

 

[justbyfaith]

I AM NOT CATHOLIC!! STOP CALLING ME ONE!!!!! I AM A TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN WHAT YOU AND MAY OTHERS HATE!

I am not a evangelical nor Catholic and I do not hold standard protestant beliefs, more accurately modern evangelical beliefs like Dispensationalism, any type of rapture that modern evangelicals believe in, I believe that Revelations is not a future book but a book that is full of symbolism of hope for the early Christians. You could call me a partial Preterist though I might deviate from that a bit. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura I believe in Scripture with Tradition, I don't believe in Salvation by Faith alone but Salvation by God's Grace alone through faith, I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and I believe the filoque should not be in the Nicene creed, I believe in the absolute Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I believe in praying to the Saints.

YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT DEFENDING CHRISTIANITY BUT I DO. You may not care about defend Christ being 100 percent man and 100 percent God but I do. You may not care about orthodox (small o) Christianity but I do.

At the risk of you yelling even further, it sounds to me like much of your beliefs are Catholic.

 

[historyb]

At the risk of you yelling even further, it sounds to me like much of your beliefs are Catholic.

Nope. The problem is people really have no idea what Catholics believe so something that belongs in Traditional Christianity you all call Catholic. You people are so scared of Catholicism you see it around every corner, my beliefs lean closer to Orthodox

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope. The problem is people really have no idea what Catholics believe so something that belongs in Traditional Christianity you all call Catholic. You people are so scared of Catholicism you see it around every corner, my beliefs lean closer to Orthodox

How do I put this nicely...real, born again believers don't pray to the saints.

We understand that Jesus is the one mediator between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5).

Funny, I am talking about this subject in the other thread also.

Jesus isn't Catholic

 

[Truther]

The Word was God (John 1:1)...God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24)...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).

This is not based in gnosticism but in the word of the Lord.

If you are saying the Spirit is also flesh you teach gnosticism.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you are saying the Spirit is also flesh you teach gnosticism.

Nope.

The Word was God (John 1:1). God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). The Word became flesh (John 1:14).

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm pretty sure that gnosticism would deny that God can become flesh. For it teaches that spirit is good; and matter is evil.

Therefore, in gnosticism, God cannot become flesh because God is a Spirit and therefore good; while if He became flesh He would become evil in that religion.

Therefore, in gnosticism, God cannot become flesh because He would become evil in doing so.

However, gnosticism is known to be heretical to the core and a reason why early Christianity almost went out of existence.

 

[Truther]

Nope.

The Word was God (John 1:1). God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). The Word became flesh (John 1:14).

God is the word(Spirit is word)?

Word is flesh?

=Spirit is flesh!

You teach the omnipresent/omniscient and omnipotent Spirit(word) became the exact opposite of these 3 attributes of a Spirit God....human.

 

[justbyfaith]

God is the word(Spirit is word)?

Word is flesh?

=Spirit is flesh!

You teach the omnipresent/omniscient and omnipotent Spirit(word) became the exact opposite of these 3 attributes of a Spirit God....human.

Guilty as charged (see Philippians 2:1-11).

 

[Truther]

Guilty as charged (see Philippians 2:1-11).

God was in the form of God and thought it not robbery to be equal with God?

LOL.

I would say the last Adam was though...

 

[amadeus]

I AM NOT CATHOLIC!! STOP CALLING ME ONE!!!!! I AM A TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN WHAT YOU AND MAY OTHERS HATE!

I am not a evangelical nor Catholic and I do not hold standard protestant beliefs, more accurately modern evangelical beliefs like Dispensationalism, any type of rapture that modern evangelicals believe in, I believe that Revelations is not a future book but a book that is full of symbolism of hope for the early Christians. You could call me a partial Preterist though I might deviate from that a bit. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura I believe in Scripture with Tradition, I don't believe in Salvation by Faith alone but Salvation by God's Grace alone through faith, I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and I believe the filoque should not be in the Nicene creed, I believe in the absolute Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I believe in praying to the Saints.

YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT DEFENDING CHRISTIANITY BUT I DO. You may not care about defend Christ being 100 percent man and 100 percent God but I do. You may not care about orthodox (small o) Christianity but I do.

You should not be so touchy! My mind is not good on remembering details about other people on this forum. I respond most often to the single post rather than to the person because very often I mix up details about individuals. I know that I have conversed with you before but I cannot remember the details. Maybe you don't have such a memory problem. I am sorry if you were offended, but you need to consider the other person as well. I am 76 years old and the reason I don't remember things like this has to do with my age and the diminishing abilities of my brain. At one time a number of years ago I remembered almost everything. I remember that much about myself, but these days for many day-to-day things I lean heavily on my wife's memory including navigating to the local Walmart. If my wife is not with me, I may drive 4 -5 times the actual distance going in circles to find a place I have visited many times before. This is one of the privileges of me getting older. LOL

That you disagree with what I believe is your privilege, but getting get angry because I don't agree with you helps no one... certainly not you. I also have a right to believe what I do. I cannot change it to satisfy you any more than you could or would change what you believe just to satisfy me. I guess we are finished for now.

 

[historyb]

You should not be so touchy! My mind is not good on remembering details about other people on this forum. I respond most often to the single post rather than to the person because very often I mix up details about individuals. I know that I have conversed with you before but I cannot remember the details. Maybe you don't have such a memory problem. I am sorry if you were offended, but you need to consider the other person as well. I am 76 years old and the reason I don't remember things like this has to do with my age and the diminishing abilities of my brain. At one time a number of years ago I remembered almost everything. I remember that much about myself, but these days for many day-to-day things I lean heavily on my wife's memory including navigating to the local Walmart. If my wife is not with me, I may drive 4 -5 times the actual distance going in circles to find a place I have visited many times before. This is one of the privileges of me getting older. LOL

That you disagree with what I believe is your privilege, but getting get angry because I don't agree with you helps no one... certainly not you. I also have a right to believe what I do. I cannot change it to satisfy you any more than you could or would change what you believe just to satisfy me. I guess we are finished for now.

We are not quite finished. I am sorry if I got mad at you but many times in this forum I have been accused of being things I have not been and I even put things in my signature so that wouldn't happen. The other thing that got me very mad is that you are basically defending heresy and just want to let it go. Do you even understand how dangerous your position is, if your ideas existed in the early Church I don't know if Christianity would be as big or even existed. They didn't sit on their duff and hope everything worked out, they work hard exposing heresy and they didn't take guff from anyone.

People use to be strong and want to defend the truth even the real Santa Claus (St. Nicholas) when he was elderly hit a guy who spouted heresy, the same exact heresy that the OP is trying to undermine Christianity with (Arianism) and get Christian over to his satanic views about Christ. You came in half way through and assumed things about me without even trying to defend orthodox Christianity. I don't try much on here because I know you all hate me for not being a hip evangelical who goes just by the Bible and the Holy Spirit (read themselves alone) because I go by the Apostles, Church Fathers, the Church, in conjunction with Scriptures.

I can see here that no one wants to defend orthodox Christianity that was once delivered because everything is relative so anyone who says "oh I read the Bible and rely on God alone" gets a free pass anymore. No wonder Christianity is such a mess, there is no roots except what the person makes which are very shallow.

Now as far as me yelling. I am sorry and I am sorry if I that I forgot your age. I hope I didn't make you mad and frustrated at me.

I will never be sorry for vigorously defending orthodox (small o) Christianity, there are to few of us willing to do so.

 

[justbyfaith]

God was in the form of God and thought it not robbery to be equal with God?

LOL.

I would say the last Adam was though...

Yes, to be in the morphe (form) of something means that you are that something, according to Zodhiates.

 

[Truther]

Yes, to be in the morphe (form) of something means that you are that something, according to Zodhiates.

I dont read commentary.

 

[amadeus]

We are not quite finished. I am sorry if I got mad at you but many times in this forum I have been accused of being things I have not been and I even put things in my signature so that wouldn't happen. The other thing that got me very mad is that you are basically defending heresy and just want to let it go. Do you even understand how dangerous your position is, if your ideas existed in the early Church I don't know if Christianity would be as big or even existed. They didn't sit on their duff and hope everything worked out, they work hard exposing heresy and they didn't take guff from anyone.

People use to be strong and want to defend the truth even the real Santa Claus (St. Nicholas) when he was elderly hit a guy who spouted heresy, the same exact heresy that the OP is trying to undermine Christianity with (Arianism) and get Christian over to his satanic views about Christ. You came in half way through and assumed things about me without even trying to defend orthodox Christianity. I don't try much on here because I know you all hate me for not being a hip evangelical who goes just by the Bible and the Holy Spirit (read themselves alone) because I go by the Apostles, Church Fathers, the Church, in conjunction with Scriptures.

I can see here that no one wants to defend orthodox Christianity that was once delivered because everything is relative so anyone who says "oh I read the Bible and rely on God alone" gets a free pass anymore. No wonder Christianity is such a mess, there is no roots except what the person makes which are very shallow.

Now as far as me yelling. I am sorry and I am sorry if I that I forgot your age. I hope I didn't make you mad and frustrated at me.

I will never be sorry for vigorously defending orthodox (small o) Christianity, there are to few of us willing to do so.

Thank you for the apology! Don't depend too much on your signature. Early on I blocked everyone's signature because some were so long they distracted from the actual post and often confused the issue. So I have not read your signature.

As for me defending heresy... to you it may seem so, but not to me. I won't go into details as it would likely bring on another storm since my views are noticeably different than yours. Keep me in prayer and I will keep you in prayer!