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Featured For The 9999th Time, OSAS (Albeit Testimony Time)

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by BarnyFife, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I was raised in the Southern Baptist Convention tradition. OSAS was emphasized greatly. My father recently told me that he likes to listen to feel-good sermons nowadays (à la Joel Osteen) because when he was young he heard so many sermons that seemed calculated to make him doubt his own salvation. I never got that impression when I was a youth, but later on, when I got very serious about consecration to God, the nagging sense I developed was that my salvation depended upon my sincerity at some earlier time and I worried about the spaces of time between my seemingly inevitable rededications. Finally, I got so tired of this that I began to search for a new model of assurance. It took over 20 years for me to find it and it is nothing like what I believed previously. I came to look upon eternal security as grievously hollow and impractical. I could never discern the fine line between mere backsliding and the realization that I had never been "saved" to begin with. And I have come to believe that my salvation is much more for Jesus's sake than my own. I parted ways with SBC orthodoxy in 1990. As hard as it may be for some to believe, this is more of a testimony than a provocation to debate. But friendly discussion about the topic of testimony of assurance is encouraged. And I myself have more to say about this.

    What undergirds your assurance of redemption?
     
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  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful post.

    From Day #1, I just walked with Him. I came out of very dark surroundings when I got born again, playing dark and in some cases outright Satanic heavy metal. So for me the contrast when I came to Christ was obvious, and I never looked back. Sure I had my battles with ingrained sin, but with every passing year I kept giving myself more and more to Him. My sins never seemed to matter in this context. I knew they would have to all be dealt with eventually, but I always just kept looking forward because I knew He was continuing to draw me ever closer to Himself.

    But the idea that I was somehow eternally saved seemed... kinda stupid to me, to tell you the truth. I hate to put it insultingly, but it made utterly no sense to me. I loved God with all my heart, but temptation was still crouching at the door, and I could have gone right back into the Satanic world I came from at any time if I wanted to. And lust was still a problem, and would be for many years to come. So for me it was coming into relationship with a God I had NO intentions of departing from because I had entered from death into life. But my freewill was still my own.

    God bless, and I like this thread. I think it is when you get into actual testimonials that OSAS theology starts breaking down, the reason being that you cannot avoid freewill in discussing the realities of people's lives.
     
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  3. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    What a wonderful first response! I held back a little in the OP. I suspect that you have, as I do, an "Author and Finisher of our faith" model of assurance.

    While being quite refreshing, what surprises me is the lack of a representation of rigid Calvinism I've experienced here so far. In other forum websites, it is often rabid.
     
  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Comes and goes. They were here in force about 6 months or so ago. It was like "Invasion of the Calvinists" or something.
    Possibly that dude over at Carm got them all worked up or something. I don't know.
    We do have a few regulars here who are, however. They're kinda quiet right now, but they may show up if you post a thread that's relevant.
     
  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
    a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
    rightly dividing the word of truth.'

    ( 2 Timothy 2:15 )

    Hello @BarnyFife,

    I was born in a house on a Welsh hilltop, to a believing Mother, and a Father who had lost three children and who could not forgive God for their loss. I have only ever known love. God brought me to a knowledge of my need of a Saviour when I was twelve years old, and the journey began for me then, but I know by God's reckoning it began before the foundation of the world.

    I had Evangelical influences until in my early thirties when I was brought under the influence of the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and the need to rightly divide the word of truth, and the Berean principle also of Acts 17:11:-

    'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
    in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
    and searched the scriptures daily,
    whether those things were so.'

    These principles freed me from the doctrinal influences of man, and placed my feet solidly on the word of God, in Christ Jesus my Lord. For I am His workmanship. He is the Author of my faith, and He will be it's Finisher. I, like Him, look to the hope laid before me, for that is what will enable me to endure to the end, and to remain faithful.

    This is a testimony to His working, and not to me personally: for I am merely a sinner saved by grace.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    Thank you for your sharing, Barney.
    With love in Christ Jesus
    Chris

     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  6. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Wow, another post just beaming with the Glory of and to God!
    Sharing is the least I could do for Him Who spared not His own life for all who would come to Him by faith!
     
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  7. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Providence is what led to my formation of an assurance model. I found, after many years of believing in God that all the progress I had made in consecration had been due to what He did rather than anything I did. I began to relate all of Scripture that illustrates God's efforts and achievements to my own life and concluded that He was responsible for any cultivation of faith I had experienced. Sure, I had put in some effort in study, prayer, witnessing, and serving, but none of these things are possible without His prompting and sustenance.

    For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)
     
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  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hi @BarneyFife,

    Looking up the word Author, to find the reference in Hebrews 12, I found two others which I would like to share:-

    'And being made perfect,
    He became the author of eternal salvation
    unto all them that obey Him;'

    (Hebrews 5:9)

    'Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about
    with so great a cloud of witnesses,
    let us lay aside every weight,
    and the sin which doth so easily beset us,
    and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
    Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross,
    despising the shame,
    and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.'

    (Hebrews 12:1-2)

    * This last, brought the image of a marathon race to my mind, in which we, with all other witnesses, both past, present and future, run the race set before us. With one goal: of enduring to the end, and proving faithful; in order that we may gain a crown to lay at the feet of Him who has called us out of darkness into His light; and made us meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light. For His glory.

    Praise God!

    He is not ' ... the author of confusion' (1 Corinthians 14:33).
    With love in Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Both my wife and I heard the voice of the Lord saying to us, at different times (what I place below in larger letters):

    Jer 31:3, The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

    This has served to assure us both that we are forever seated in the heavenlies; because He has drawn us to Himself.

    It also serves as something that we have in common with each other.
     
  10. Candidus

    Candidus Well-Known Member

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    The evidence of salvation is not that on October 22nd, 19-- you said the Sinners Prayer.

    I feel that well-meaning preachers and evangelicals look back on some incantation as the moment we were saved. Because of this, many have doubts, and show little or nothing from their "Christian walk" besides condemnation and struggle. This is not salvation!

    A preacher can pronounce you "saved." They can dip you in water and declare you cleansed. They can praise your faith when you tithe, or in your perfect attendance. The preacher can claim that you are Elect and Predestined from all Eternity, yet he really does not know.. that is not salvation. The only One that can confirm and tell you that you are saved is the Holy Spirit.

    Salvation is not just the change of state in heavenly places, but change of nature here and now. Conversion- can be a change of heart. Regeneration- implies a change of nature, where you become a new creature in Christ Jesus. Being Born-Again- speaks of the same, and implies that you are no longer the same as your were before. Sanctification- is where if we are in the Vine (Jesus Christ) we will bear much fruit. God makes us holy; we can be the failure of Jesus working in and through us, but He is the One that causes us to be holy. (Jn. 1).

    "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands." 1 John 2:3.

    If our Confession and Prayer of Repentance did not bring an immediate and radical change of nature from darkness to light, then we should have doubts. People telling you that failure is normal, and that your doubts are unfounded, are actually the one's that are keeping you from seeking the answer in God. No passage in Scripture gives genuine assurance unless God Himself confirms you are one of His!

    "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Romans 8:14-16.

    Let no man claim any assurance of salvation apart from the fruit and testimony of the Spirit that they are a child of God.
     
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  11. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Amen, Sister!
     
  12. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Finally, my brethren,
    .. be strong in the Lord,
    .... and in the power of His might.
    ...... Put on the whole armour of God,
    ........ that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
    .. but against principalities,
    .... against powers,
    ...... against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
    ........ against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,

    that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,
    and having done all, TO STAND.'

    (Ephesians 6:10-13)

    Hello Candidus,

    * We are living in evil days I believe, in which Satan is insidiously working: so subtly; as an angel of light. This is not the time to cast doubt upon the salvation of any individual, but to build up and strengthen ourselves in the truth of God's word. I have known doubts and fears too, and questioned my salvation at times during my life. Those doubts and fears were not evidence that Christ was not my Saviour, but evidence that my faith was under attack by the evil one. God in His love and mercy upheld me, and helped me to stand upright (Romans 14:4).

    I am assuredly His workmanship, as are all who are saved by His grace. He will save to the uttermost those who come to God by Him (Hebrews 7:25)

    May His Name be Praised!

    With love
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    " I could never discern the fine line between mere backsliding and the realization that I had never been "saved" to begin with. "

    Ditto Barny,
    And, to me it comes down to what He say's about who I am IN HIM. Nothing other than that and the changes throughout my own personal life to "prove" I am His.
     
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  14. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Amen and Amen, Sister!
     
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  15. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I just believed Gods promises regarding salvation/eternal life. There are numerous ones but these come to the top of my head right now.

    1 John 5:11-13
    And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    John 10:27-30
    My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

    1 Cor 1:7-9
    awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2 Cor 1:20-22
    For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

    Eph 1:11-14
    In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

    Phil 1:6
    And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

    1 Thes 5:22-23
    Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

    Heb 7:25
    Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Whenever I'm in doubt I place my faith is Gods promises and not my performance or works. I learned this early on when I became a believer in 1980 and the young age of 20.

    hope this helps !!!
     
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  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    This actually says (in the kjv):

    1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
     
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  17. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the NASB but it still makes no difference since God does the following:

    1- sanctifies us wholly
    2- our spirit,soul and body are preserved blameless
    3- God being faithful and the One that calls us will also do it

    hope this helps !!!
     
  18. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    I see this issue as another one of those dichotomies where denominations camp on one side or the other. There are scriptures that seem to say that we have eternal security, and there are those that seem to say that we can lose our salvation. While I'm not a Calvinist, I lean toward the side of eternal security; although, I will not put up a fight for this position. All I can say for sure is that God told me as a new Christian that I am secure in Him, and He has kept me through thick and thin. PTL!

    Edit: I just wanted to add a word about Joel Osteen. I know that a lot of Christians like to hate on him, and I believe that he has messed up on some things. But there have been times when I've been going through some really rough trials, and God has told me to watch his program. I was so encouraged by the things he shared.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  19. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I personally don’t believe Christ has come to manifest me, rather himself.
     
  20. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    God never tells me anything.
    I'm always the last to know.
     
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