The Ten Commandments—What happened?
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<the kjv is not a ... text>. It's an English translation - the best - of the Text, the Greek (manuscripts).
You have clearly confirmed my suspicion ALL you aimed at IS to rid yourself of GOD'S Sabbath. You can tell us you have; it changes nothing the Sabbath NEVER WAS YOURS. "The DAY The Seventh DAY is Sabbath DAY OF THE LORD GOD". Therefore if you got rid of the Sabbath Day which you maintain you did manage to accomplish, you must have accomplished to rid yourself of the LORD GOD the Sabbath Day belongs to. How can I say you haven't succeeded?
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You may be interested to know that the Antichrist thought he could improve on God's laws also....
KJV Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I can clear up all of your confusion, because I can't claim to know everything about the issue. Here is what I know. The Ten Commandments were written on two tablets. One tablet answers to the question, "How do I relate to God?" and the other tablet answers to the question, "How do I relate to my neighbor?" *
At the top of one tablet, the very first commandment stands above all, "You shall have no other gods before Me." Every other way I might relate to God follows from that first commandment. The first commandment is of the highest priority, and everything follows from that. If we get the first one right, we will be in the best position to keep all the others.
At the top of the other tablet we find the most important commandment as it relates to our neighbor, "Honor your father and your mother." How we relate to our neighbor begins at home; if we love and honor our parents, we will be in the best position to love our neighbor as ourselves. The family context is where we learn to love others; where we learn to forgive those who injure us; where we learn to make allowances for the mistakes of others; where we learn to appreciate the great value of fidelity, fealty, friendship, loyalty and cooperation.
The one commandment that ties both tablets together, so to speak, is "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy." In the context of God's relationship to Israel, the Sabbath day stands as a sign of that relationship, like a wedding ring. The first three commandments answer to the question, "how do I relate to God as an individual?" The fourth commandment answers to the question, "how do we relate to God together as a people?" To violate the fourth commandment is to disavow both God and the people at the same time.
Perhaps this is worthy of death. One thing is for certain. As we can see, keeping the Sabbath Day holy is not something that can be done by an individual. This commandment is most relevant as it applies to a nation and a people who claim to have YHWH as their God. If I lived in such a nation, I would do my part as an individual, but unless my people were in covenant relationship to God, I alone can not fully keep it by myself. All those who wish to honor God on the Sabbath should do so. It is always good to honor God. But, since Sabbath observance unites the two tablets together, one can't fully appreciate and fully obey the fourth commandment in isolation. It's everyone or no one.
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*Jesus highlights this idea in Matthew 22:37-40
Absolute conjecture. No basis in fact or logic whatsoever. I live in a house full of people who do not observe the Sabbath. I do just fine. God made it holy. I just keep it holy in my heart (as must be done with the other nine commandments) the best I can. I have no theocracy to enforce Sabbath-keeping in my house and, frankly, I'm glad I didn't have to live through that era. I am justified by faith and ask forgiveness for not keeping the Sabbath fully. I receive forgiveness. It is not complicated.
How does Hebrews 7:12 factor into that?
Obviously Jesus didn't change the law until after He had died and rose again.
Although, it seems that in His own life, He exemplified, not being bound to the letter; but being obedient to the spirit, of what is written in the law.
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Nothing obvious, Jesus NEVER changed the Law - HIS Law, no iota or tittle of it. He fulfilled it thereby MAGNIFYING AND HONOURING it.
O the vanities spoken against your Word o, God, the AUDACITY with which they are spoken, and will you forgive it and not judge them that speak them?
I can’t “ improve” on anything.....but God Sure can! It was GOD —- not me, who referred to His New Covenant as “New and Better” and “ Based on BETTER PROMISES”. The Old Covenant was” weak”—- it had NO POWER to SAVE ! The NEW Covenant , The Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 , plainly states that it contains “ The POWER to Save”.......
Do you guys even “ Read” the Bible ? This stuff is all Christianity 101, and you come in here and try to “ Teach” others?
God says to be Good Students Of His Word.....Knowing how to “ Rightly Divide “ it.....lest you “ Stand Ashamed”..... of course, many so-called Teachers Know no shame.....you see it here every day....I hope Newbies will ignore those that don’t even understand the basics of our Faith.....it’s the same old story and these guys probably aren’t even aware of what they are, probably never read it—- It’s “ the blind leading the blind”......This next phrase did not originate from the Bible , but nevertheless it is true——“Its like shooting fish in a barrel” to debate you guys......
Interesting, but clearly, any precept can be construed in various ways, leading to various degrees of egregiousness.
Arguably, theft or false testimony, which weren't punishable by death, can be regraded as more sacrilegious than honouring a single day where God rested. One would think, for example, that days that were spent in creation would have more sanctity and awe, than a day where God was 'fatigued'. I say this just for the sake of argument.
The decalogue's prohibitions are somewhat perplexing. Calvin attempted to explain that they were much more comprehensive than just 10 principles, that they actually implied a wider scope of concern than just their immediate context. eg: do not kill, also means do not harm in any manner, which also means, protect and nurture, etc...
Point being, why wasn't fornication included, does adultery imply this? Why wasn't drunkenness and debauchery included, assault or abuse.
One may prefer, for example, slander over physical injury, which the former was in the decalogue while the latter wasn't. But, the Levitical Law in all it's entirety tended to include most forms of immorality.
Thus, I always questioned to what extent that the 10 Commandments had precedence over all other decrees in the Torah.
I was just being brief. I believe that we had discussed this topic previously to a satisfactory degree, CAZ I don't think read our entire posts, so i was just explaining to him what prompted my initial post.
Heb 7:11, If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
1 Thessalonians 4:8-9 KJV
[8] He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. [9] But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[8] He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. [9] But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
Nothing obvious, Jesus NEVER changed the Law - HIS Law, no iota or tittle of it. He fulfilled it thereby MAGNIFYING AND HONOURING it.
True, Jesus never changed the Law.....After the Cross , he revealed what the PURPOSE of the Law had been all along—- to show you that you can’t keep it—- to show that you must rely on Grace— NOT Law...
Was Jesus “ magnifying and honoring it”, when He said it was “ weak and beggarly” because it had NO POWER to Save ? The Law is Useless unless one knows how to use it, Jesus said. The Law is only if value if you “Shut your Mouth”, admit you can’t keep it, and let it take you by the hand and lead you to the Savior...
It’s high time that the Law was taken down from its lofty position place atop the MantelPiece and replaced with The Superior item that trumps it..... Grace.....
True, Jesus never changed the Law.....After the Cross , he revealed what the PURPOSE of the Law had been all along—- to show you that you can’t keep it—- to show that you must rely on Grace— NOT Law...
Was Jesus “ magnifying and honoring it”, when He said it was “ weak and beggarly” because it had NO POWER to Save ? The Law is Useless unless one knows how to use it, Jesus said. The Law is only if value if you “Shut your Mouth”, admit you can’t keep it, and let it take you by the hand and lead you to the Savior...
It’s high time that the Law was taken down from its lofty position place atop the MantelPiece and replaced with The Superior item that trumps it..... Grace.....
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I apologize for making assertions without proof. We all know that this format lends itself to small posts and so at times I am forced to make assertions without giving proof. I'm sorry about that. And I have no issue with folks who observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy, especially those who keep the Sabbath unto the Lord. I encourage you to continue serving the Lord as will I.
At the same time, my assertion that Sabbath keeping is intended as a corporate function rather than an individual practice is not without basis. For example, consider this verse from Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 5:15
You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.
Here we see Israel keeping the Sabbath day because the nation shared a common experience with God. As they observe the Sabbath Day each week, they are to remember that they were slaves in Egypt and the Lord God brought them out of there by a mighty hand. I don't think anyone in my family history were slaves in Egypt when God freed them from slavery. I am not aware that my people share that experience with the descendants of Jacob.
In the passage below, we see that Sabbath observance is given as a signal event, marking a particular family line as God's holy people.
Exodus 31:12-14
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Finally, we see from the last line above the purpose for the death penalty; in this instance, capital punishment is a signal event indicating a permanent excommunication from the people of God.
As a side note: the phrase above has an echo in the follow passage.
Daniel 9:26
Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
In a sense, Jesus Christ was permanently excommunicated from his own people. He was "cut off" from the people through death. Ironically, this allowed him to become the High Priest to all those who follow him, whether Jew or Gentile.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
BOWnQUIVER
Active Member
How many times will i need to post these scriptures
GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or the 10 commandments.. Its speaking of those who observe times.
DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?
2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger
Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.
LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.
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