The Ten Commandments—What happened?

[BOWnQUIVER]

ACTS 8 [9] But there was a certain man, called SIMON, which beforetime in the same city USED SORCERY, AND BEWITCHED THE PEOPLE of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: [10] To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. [11] And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had BEWITCHED THEM WITH SORCERIES.

GALATIANS 3 [1] O foolish Galatians, WHO HATH BEWITCHED YOU, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Little more scriptural proof as to what Gal.4 is speaking of. The occult. Sorcery and the such

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Heb 7:11, If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Print and colour helps indeed for some yet for others nothing will underline the one and only truth revealed in these verses, is not what you claim, but what I claim, that Jesus the Christ of God "magnified the Law" and made it great and honourable, Himself even now occupying that place and claiming that honour and receiving that magnificence before of the Written Law.

But I waste my breath and so does Scripture waste the Spirit which breathed it if God not dug the ears to hear and gave the understanding to comprehend it.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Was Jesus “ magnifying and honoring it”, when He said it was “ weak and beggarly”

Repeat your blasphemy... I am ashamed for you, you LYING QUOTER! Paul wrote "YOUR, FORMER, first principles (stoicheia) or laws of life as PAGANS are "weak and beggarly", now you do THOSE law-principles here where the Word of GOD is supposed to be heard and contemplated! STOP SPEAKING WORDS OF DEVIL WORSHIPPERS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH INSPIRED SCRIPTURE THE WORD OF GOD!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How many times will i need to post these scriptures

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or the 10 commandments.. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

AMEN! God be with you

May I add, certainly one of the major "no-gods" the Galatian Gentile PAGANS "superstitiously worshipped" (paraskeuadzoh) specifically was the "Day-of-the-lord-SUN".
["superstitiously worship" (paraskeuadzoh) LXX ‘meh ornithoskopehsesthe’ thou shalt not divine times / seasons watching the migrations of birds]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And I have no issue with folks who observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy, especially those who keep the Sabbath unto the Lord. I encourage you to continue serving the Lord as will I.

You are just no one to have any issues with anyone in disagreement with you. Agreement with you is nothing and doesn't depend on your encouragement. If you have nothing to say, please say nothing and stop talking yourself deeper into quick-sand. This is a BIBLE discussion forum.

 

[BarneyFife]

I apologize for making assertions without proof. We all know that this format lends itself to small posts and so at times I am forced to make assertions without giving proof. I'm sorry about that. And I have no issue with folks who observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy, especially those who keep the Sabbath unto the Lord. I encourage you to continue serving the Lord as will I.

At the same time, my assertion that Sabbath keeping is intended as a corporate function rather than an individual practice is not without basis. For example, consider this verse from Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 5:15
You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

Here we see Israel keeping the Sabbath day because the nation shared a common experience with God. As they observe the Sabbath Day each week, they are to remember that they were slaves in Egypt and the Lord God brought them out of there by a mighty hand. I don't think anyone in my family history were slaves in Egypt when God freed them from slavery. I am not aware that my people share that experience with the descendants of Jacob.

In the passage below, we see that Sabbath observance is given as a signal event, marking a particular family line as God's holy people.

Exodus 31:12-14
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

Finally, we see from the last line above the purpose for the death penalty; in this instance, capital punishment is a signal event indicating a permanent excommunication from the people of God.

As a side note: the phrase above has an echo in the follow passage.

Daniel 9:26
Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

In a sense, Jesus Christ was permanently excommunicated from his own people. He was "cut off" from the people through death. Ironically, this allowed him to become the High Priest to all those who follow him, whether Jew or Gentile.

WADR, the scripture references you have provided here say nothing about how the Sabbath is to be kept, personally or corporately, and I find your use of the word "rather" to be highly questionable. If any question is being answered in the texts you chose, it is a "why" question. In short, you're reading into it something which is not intended.

Also, there are other sins that resulted in being "cut off" that had nothing to do with group adherence or offense. This refutes it support for the preference of corporate Sabbath-keeping.

I do believe the group aspect of Sabbath-keeping is vitally important in light of Leviticus 23:3 and Hebrews 10:25 but, as we are not together for most of the 24-hour period of the Sabbath, we have sufficient time to answer for, individually.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Newbies please take note....Gerhard’s argument is with God, not with your good friend BB.....If you have not seen this , go back a couple of pages and read “ The 37 Reasons Christians are not under the Law.....internalize these things for your Christian Walk before you get “ stiff- necked” like some of our “ weaker” brothers ( if, indeed they “ are” our brothers ) We have to put up with our weaker Brethern...We do NOT let them rUn the Church.......OR Christian Sites! God Bless....

The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

 

[BarneyFife]

-

 

[BarneyFife]

internalize these things for your Christian Walk before you get “ stiff- necked” like some of our “ weaker” brothers

Were it not for the law, you wouldn't even have the term "stiff-necked" to resort to. The original stiff-necked people were law-breakers, not legalist zealots.

We have to put up with our weaker Brethern

How unfortunate for you.

The law is only good if used in the right context.

Which you determine, of course.

The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect.

God begs to differ:

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7)

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. (Proverbs 28:9)

The poetic books are not part of the New Testament. Are they then for the old covenant only? Or are they just a buffet from which we choose only that which appeals to our senses? Or, if we use the "hold fast to that which is good--do not muzzle the ox" policy (which is what we do), why not use that with the law as Paul instructs us?

The problem is that most of us see the word "law" (which has several different definitions) in the Bible and choose the definition that suits our desires.

 

[justbyfaith]

True, Jesus never changed the Law

Heb 7:11, If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

 

[justbyfaith]

The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect.

God begs to differ:

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7)

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. (Proverbs 28:9)

Heb 7:18, For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19, For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Surely there is a reconciliation between these scriptures.

The commandment going before was weak and unprofitable; and it made nothing perfect. However, it, in and of itself, is perfect and has the power to convert the soul. While it does not have the power to impart life (Galatians 3:21). It is able to convert the soul by showing a man that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus pointing him to the Saviour who can impart life.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus did indeed magnify the law and make it honourable; and He also did change the law.

Consider chapter 3 of The Wet Paint Principle:

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[BarneyFife]

Surely there is a reconciliation between these scriptures.

AMEN. Precisely my point. But then even those who take the time to reconcile pick and choose their definition of "law," "commandment," "statute," etc. And they interpret "better than" as meaning "opposed to." The book of Hebrews is especially wielded as a club to abrogate the law of God, while the fact that the letter is addressed to the Hebrews is largely ignored, just as the other epistles are to various people groups. An integral part of effective Theological hermeneutics is taking into account what the words written meant to the writer and its recipients at the time of writing. This is readily observed until doing so cuts across sectarian dogma.

 

[BOWnQUIVER]

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

No it is not obsolete. Maybe in your book but not in the bible

Hebrews 8:11-13 (KJV)
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Old and obsolete are 2 different words. READY to vanish. Hasnt vanished yet. Tell me BB do you really think everyone knows the Lord?????

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

There is no salvation in the Old Testament no proposed path to heaven in the Old Testament. God never offered heaven as a reward or destination in the Old Testament.

So you are ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[Grailhunter]

So you are ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

lol You are weird!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Amen to your post.
By the way, False people teach the Law Jesus said would last forever and never vanish, got old, decayed and vanished. Simply blasphemy, smirking, Who's Jesus?!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the PURPOSE of the Law had been all along—- to show you that you can’t keep it—

That's your, wrong, impression. From the first incidence God gave his Law - in Eden - it has been with the view to the Redeemer of the sinner. That's why the Law of God shall never pass away or cease in purpose or meaning. But make the Law's purpose to show man he cannot keep it, and you defeated its purpose.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No it is not obsolete. Maybe in your book but not in the bible

Hebrews 8:11-13 (KJV)
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Old and obsolete are 2 different words. READY to vanish. Hasnt vanished yet. Tell me BB do you really think everyone knows the Lord?????

Both sides of this debate are out there ......let the viewer pray about it and decide which side is closet to the Truth....

 

[Brakelite]

No it is not obsolete. Maybe in your book but not in the bible

Hebrews 8:11-13 (KJV)
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Old and obsolete are 2 different words. READY to vanish. Hasnt vanished yet. Tell me BB do you really think everyone knows the Lord?????

What he means by obsolete is it's obsolete to him. And when he says the law is only good for leading people to Christ, he means now that I'm with Christ, I have no use for the law.
People forget that while all the angels were at one time in heaven, with Christ, a third of them believed lies (which were unlawful) , believed slander (which was unlawful), coveted power not their own ( which was not lawful) rebelled (which was not lawful) disobeyed (which was not lawful) and fight for Independence and freedom (which to the extent they wanted it, was not lawful).
All accomplished with the Father and Son before them in plain sight.
So now we have converted sinners, who not so long ago were slaves to unrighteousness, unbelief, and all manner of profane and blasphemous practices and speech, claiming that now they are with Christ, they don't need the law. And angels who were perfect and in the very presence of their Creator, rebelled. What amazing arrogance Christians today exude thinking they are better somehow than angels.