The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Has anybody ever had sin taken away? Not covered, but removed.

What is perfection? Surely it cannot be our own will power, but by The Lord’s divine power.

I once asked my pastor to pray about my smoking, and the very next day, I forgot to smoke! Something strange had happened that night. I cannot deny it-deliverance from sin/addiction.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The key word of the most common false doctrine is "cover." Anytime I hear someone use the phrase "the blood of Jesus "covers" our sin," I know they have been taught the watered down, powerless understanding of what the blood of Jesus actually does, and lives their lives struggling with sin, but has the false assurance that God can't see their sinning, so they still have their ticket to heaven. Many in these denominations that teach "covering" attract persons who desire to still be carnal; and never become born again - actual children of God. Not just in theory, but actually. Not just imputed righteousness (another key phrase used in this false doctrine), but actually. Jesus is coming back for a spotless Bride, not one who is still a slave to sin.

Part of the false doctrine is "we will always sin until we die and receive new bodies." The misunderstanding of the word "flesh" is the problem. Paul uses it equal to the old sinful carnal nature inherited from Adam. Those who believe this doctrine of demons never seek to be free, because they have been told they have to go through a life-long process of sanctification of overcoming sin. In other words, they have to become righteous in their own power of learning right from wrong. Good grief, that is what the Old Covenant was all about, but Romans 7:13 shows the problem. Sin in our nature. What is needed is a brand new spotless, powerful nature that partakes of the divine nature of Christ. 2 Peter 1:2-11. This is why 2 Peter 1:9 shows that only our past sins were cleansed. 1 John 1:9 ideally needs to only happen once. Then the fruit of the Spirit grows to maturity. The result of immature fruit causes minor trespasses, but forgiving others their trespasses against us causes our Advocate to forgive our trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15

Jesus' blood cleanses us of ALL sin; He takes it away, not just covers it up. He does NOT leave us with the old carnal nature of Adam? NO! Jesus is the new Adam. We become partakers of the divine nature of God that does not sin. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has FREED us from the law of sin and death. Otherwise, we are not born again prepared for heaven. The New Covenant method regarding sin, is completely different than the Old Testament COVERING of sin, like a tarp over a cesspool, leaving the vile stench below.

The question arises from those in the false doctrine. "Then do we never have to repent again?" How many times does Peter say to repent in Acts 2:38? Or in 1 John 1:9? Once. If you truly repent and truly want to be holy, Jesus gives you His powerful sinless Spirit to change your desires. That is what becoming born again is all about. He makes you partakers of the divine nature.

So, no, once you truly repent, you shouldn't have to repent again and again as in the weak doctrine of covering our sin. You have no desire to do anything to repent of. Those desires have been TAKEN AWAY.

Before I proceed, I need to ask you- are you espousing a person live a sinlessly perfect life on earth once they are born again ?

 

[Enoch111]

That's because you believe the false doctrine is truth. Why don't you study the scriptures rather than your reformed doctrines.

Since I do not hold to Reformed doctrines but Bible truth, that is already a FALSE ACCUSATION. And accusing people falsely is a sin. So there goes your theory that you do not need to repent. Now you need to both apologize and repent.

Your fundamental premise that after a person is saved they CANNOT sin is false. And then to say that they must not confess and repent is even more false. So you have been trying to mislead people all along, and even after you have been shown the truth from Scripture, you have failed to repent. Which means that you are in serious trouble already.

 

[Enoch111]

Before I proceed, I need to ask you- are you espousing a person live a sinlessly perfect life on earth once they are born again ?

That is exactly what she has been promoting all along -- sinless perfection. Since even Paul did not make such a claim, CL is simply giving out false information -- Christian FAKE NEWS.

 

[CharismaticLady]

first thanks for the reply, second,
A. our spirits are renewed. but not our bodies yet... hence the scripture, Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." see sin is not in the body, for the body is dead, but sin is in your head. or is aware of it. it's in our conscious, this is the battle ground.
see there is a differen in sin and iniquity, they are not the same. and our actions rest on our conscious decision that we make.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I see it as just the opposite. And as I said in the OP, the belief that we will still sin as long as our mortal body is alive is part of the human reasoning of the false doctrine.

Our body cannot sin unless our nature commands it to. What is dead is the source of sin, the Adamic nature of sin. Romans 7:13. Our nature/spirit is born again, Romans 8:9. It died on the cross with Jesus, and was resurrected with Jesus. BUT, our body still has to die to match our divine nature, Romans 8:10. Our body will become immortal once Jesus returns and resurrects our bodies.

The problem with many who argue against this teaching I find in the Word, is that they have never experienced the power of being born again. I, myself, didn't experience it for the first 30 years of going to church. The Corinthians didn't experience it either until they truly repented as Paul noted in 2 Corinthians 2:9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted.

Acts of the Apostles 2:38 REPENT.

This is why it is so important to understand the truth. For many in the Church are still learning and being drawn by the Holy Spirit, but have yet to completely yield to Christ and receive His Spirit.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

We have to go from being drawn to recognizing we cannot be righteous on our own. In fact, the more we try in are carnal nature, the more we fail. Romans 7:14-23. We must surrender our whole self to Jesus and recognize we need Him inside us. This we learn from the Word of God. Romans 8:9, and

1 Corinthians 2:
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

Luke 11:
11 If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

We MUST be born again.

 

[Enoch111]

Has anybody ever had sin taken away? Not covered, but removed.

That is not the meaning of John 1:29. The Lamb of God "took away" the sin of the world by taking all the sins and guilt of all mankind and paying the penalty for sins IN FULL. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and that is what is meant by the Lamb of God taking away the sin of the world.

However, unless a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the atoning work of Christ does not apply to him or her. At the same time, when a sinner is justified by grace through faith, he or she is not automatically rendered sinlessly perfect. There must be a daily self-examination, and a daily recognition of both sins of omission and commission. And the apostle John makes this crystal clear.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Since I do not hold to Reformed doctrines but Bible truth, that is already a FALSE ACCUSATION. And accusing people falsely is a sin. So there goes your theory that you do not need to repent. Now you need to both apologize and repent.

Your fundamental premise that after a person is saved they CANNOT sin is false. And then to say that they must not confess and repent is even more false. So you have been trying to mislead people all along, and even after you have been shown the truth from Scripture, you have failed to repent. Which means that you are in serious trouble already.

I know many denominations who unconsciously quote reformed doctrine, but are not Calvinists. I heard my own AOG pastor do so. I was shocked he didn't know better. I also was raised SDA, and had to shed the "Protestant" infiltration and infestation of the Reformation from them.

You may not follow Calvin, but if you are a Protestant that may be the reason you still quote many things from the Reformation.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Has anybody ever had sin taken away? Not covered, but removed.

What is perfection? Surely it cannot be our own will power, but by The Lord’s divine power.

I once asked my pastor to pray about my smoking, and the very next day, I forgot to smoke! Something strange had happened that night. I cannot deny it-deliverance from sin/addiction.

Yes, I have. I will need to send you my testimony, so watch your inbox.

 

[101G]

Our body cannot sin unless our nature commands it to. What is dead is the source of sin

I agree, our flesh cannot do nothing withour will.

The problem with many who argue against this teaching I find in the Word, is that they have never experienced the power of being born again.

not saying that you're right or wrong here, but consider this, everyone's faith is not at the same level. this is why we all must "ADD" to our faith.
so everyone might not be at your level of Faith yet, so we all must be patience with each other.

I'm assured that we will all get there. as the apostle said by the Holy Ghost. Philippians 3:13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,"Philippians 3:14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[CharismaticLady]

I agree, our flesh cannot do nothing withour will.

not saying that you're right or wrong here, but consider this, everyone's faith is not at the same level. this is why we all must "ADD" to our faith.
so everyone might not be at your level of Faith yet, so we all must be patience with each other.

I'm assured that we will all get there. as the apostle said by the Holy Ghost. Philippians 3:13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,"Philippians 3:14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Yes, I agree whole-heartedly. But what I'm fighting against is the complacency of those who believe they can still sin because it is covered by the blood of Jesus. They become apathetic to holiness. Besides "cover" another key phrase to the false doctrine is that our "past, present and futures" sins are forgiven. They don't recognize that they even can be dead to sin, and recognize that they have no power. And never will until they repent and become born again.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Before I proceed, I need to ask you- are you espousing a person live a sinlessly perfect life on earth once they are born again ?

We grow in knowledge of what sin is. But those who are born again through repentance will live according to the light they have. Philippians 3:16. God only hates KNOWN sin. The Holy Spirit super-sensitizes our conscience, and works through our conscience. 1 John 3:21-24 shows those who obey their Spirit-filled conscience. That is where God has written His laws.

I remember as a young Spirit-filled Christian doing something that I later found I was doing based on a false teaching. Even though I know it was a sin now, then I didn't, and I could still hear God's voice. Later as I became mature, if I didn't act quickly enough to make something right, I couldn't hear God's voice until I made it right. That is His chastisement for me, because my number one joy is hearing His voice.

 

[Nancy]

Your spirit is good, and that matters more to me than anything else. With respect to the word "covers" I think its a problem over semantics. Words are not fixed, and can mean different things to different people, depending on the context. I'm not sure our difference is theological, and may be simply the implications from our different view and use of the word "cover?"

I do agree that sins are not only "covered" but separated from the believer. That is, we depart from a life of sin, from the carnal life, and begin to live in conformity with Christ.

On the other hand, no matter how righteous we are, our human spirits remained flawed, and affected by the Sin Nature. That is, we do *not* ever become sinless until the New Creation. You also seem to be saying that?

What we will agree on is that the righteous Christian does not, generally, live a life of sin, and does not, generally, live a life in the flesh. We have Christ living inside of us, and we have a New Nature. It is our job to reject the carnal impulses, and to choose for the life of the Spirit.

That being said, we do not ever become sinless in this life, because we have a Sin Nature. We just do not have to capitulate to that life, which is called the "life of the flesh." There is a big difference between being "flawed by sin" and "living a life of the flesh." The Christian normally lives a righteous life, even though he or she has a flawed performance. But those who capitulate to the life of the flesh are not righteous at all, except when they don't indulge the flesh and choose to conform to God's word.

Ah yes, semantics! "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." Romans 6:12

Reign:
verb

1. hold royal office; rule as king or queen.
   "Queen Elizabeth reigns over the UK"
   
   Similar:
   be king/queen
   be monarch
   be sovereign
   sit on the throne
   occupy the throne
   wear the crown
   wield the scepter
   hold sway
   
   rule
   
   govern
   
   be in power
   ruling
   
   regnant
   on the throne
2. Reigning to me just means that whatever reigns in our hearts or, has dominion over us is a complete thing yet, even though we want and pray that God Himself reign over us...we are broken and will miss the mark at times. It is in the repentance of such sin, especially the sin that "so besets us"...we are not (IMHO) sinless but if we are truly seeking God and His ways, we will sin LESS.
3. So, reigning is something that dominates IMO.

noun

1. the period during which a sovereign rules.
   "the original chapel was built in the reign of Charles I"

Sin dwells in our body and, we can choose to sin or not. A BAC does not desire to sin yet...IMHO, we have NOT yet been perfected as Christ is. We run for the prize! We fall, stumble...we get back up again and re-join that race where our salvation is being worked out of us as it was worked inside us. So, allowing something to reign is something that takes over and puts oneself on the throne rather than God.
Our flesh, or sinful nature, war against our new nature, or new man?
Oh how we would love to be as perfect as He is perfect...one day!

 

[101G]

Yes, I agree whole-heartedly. But what I'm fighting against is the complacency of those who believe they can still sin because it is covered by the blood of Jesus. They become apathetic to holiness. Besides "cover" another key phrase to the false doctrine is that our "past, present and futures" sins are forgiven. They don't recognize that they even can be dead to sin, and recognize that they have no power. And never will until they repent and become born again.

not saying that you're right or wrong here, I believe most christian are sincere. and if there was a magic pill to take ... Right now, to cure all and any sin, I'm sure any christian would take it gladly. well that is to come in the form of Christ our saviour, in his second apperance, but until then, he have given us, we do have HELP. the Comforter. until he put an end to all things and make all things new.

so to any christian who maybe struggling with any type of sin, fight the best fight you can, but I say this, the battle is not yours. surrender is the hardest thing to do, and the best option. when one surrender to the Lord Jesus, he will fight your battles.

see, that's easy to say, but someone might say, "get in my shoes".... well maybe I have been in those shoes?

but just like in a marriage, each is different. what might work in house A may not work in house B. so I suggest you study you, yes, you. you know yourself better than anyone else. then make a plan. (now I say all this for a reason for right now).

sin is just like a bad habit, don't feed it, and it want grow. enough said.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[CharismaticLady]

not saying that you're right or wrong here, I believe most christian are sincere. and if there was a magic pill to take ... Right now, to cure all and any sin, I'm sure any christian would take it gladly. well that is to come in the form of Christ our saviour, in his second apperance, but until then, he have given us, we do have HELP. the Comforter. until he put an end to all things and make all things new.

so to any christian who maybe struggling with any type of sin, fight the best fight you can, but I say this, the battle is not yours. surrender is the hardest thing to do, and the best option. when one surrender to the Lord Jesus, he will fight your battles.

see, that's easy to say, but someone might say, "get in my shoes".... well maybe I have been in those shoes?

but just like in a marriage, each is different. what might work in house A may not work in house B. so I suggest you study you, yes, you. you know yourself better than anyone else. then make a plan. (now I say all this for a reason for right now).

sin is just like a bad habit, don't feed it, and it want grow. enough said.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

All the self-will in the world will not make us truly righteous until the carnal nature is dead, and it is Jesus who kills it, with Him on the cross. THEN He places His own sinless Spirit inside of us to make us naturally keep His commandments. There is no more struggle. The Spirit is doing all the heavy lifting. John 8:34-36

 

[101G]

All the self-will in the world will not make us truly righteous until the carnal nature is dead, and it is Jesus who kills it, with Him on the cross. THEN He places His own sinless Spirit inside of us to make us naturally keep His commandments. There is no more struggle. The Spirit is doing all the heavy lifting. John 8:34-36

first thanks for the reply, second, we all have to start from "somewhere"... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[CharismaticLady]

this is why we all must "ADD" to our faith

Another thing you will find unOrthodox, and that is I believe the sin issue was dealt with as soon as we truly repented and became Spirit-filled. Sanctification is NOT the life long process we were taught, but is back to back with justification. So your post of adding to your faith doesn't have to do with sin, but perfection in the fruit of the Spirit. I once asked God just a few years ago about this when He was teaching me that sanctification is connected with justification at the beginning of our walk, not the end. I asked Him, well, then if sanctification is not the "process" what is? And He spoke immediately, and said one word. "Glorification" along with the meaning of becoming like Christ/God as we mature in the following steps of glorification:

2 Peter 1:5-7
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

 

[CharismaticLady]

first thanks for the reply, second, we all have to start from "somewhere"... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Yes, at 73 I am a long way from when I was first born again and filled with the Spirit at 30 years old. But what was sobering to me is that I went to church from the cradle, and yet I was merely being drawn without a true commitment. I wasn't saved! Yikes!

That is why my ministry is not to the unsaved in the world, but to those under a false assurance inside the Church.

 

[101G]

Another thing you will find unOrthodox, and that is I believe the sin issue was dealt with as soon as we truly repented and became Spirit-filled. Sanctification is NOT the life long process we were taught, but is back to back with justification.

consider this, Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

so my first qiestion, why have a start and eventually a finish of our Faith is it's so instance. see the Just, those declared Rightious must... must... must live by Faith.
Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
is not perfection is what you're speaking of.... sanctification? be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect? see it now, the adding, the learning, the finding out.

understand something here CL. not as a put down, but let me ask you a question. "when you was born again, have you ever not sin, or did anything wrong, at al yes or no?".

well, then if sanctification is not the "process" what is?

FELLOWSHIP, which one can enjoy our RELATIONSHIP that we have with God. listen, 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." BINGO.

see CL we have a relationship with God that is never changing. just like a woman who gives birth to a child, it5's not going back into womb. NOW, let me say it again, NOW, as that child ... "GROWS" up, it is the ENJOYMENT of the relationship is what's important.

understand, a child might go a anti socal and even kill. notice that act, (like sin), can never chang the relationship of parent and child. but might affect the "ENJOYMENT" of that relationship. see it now.

so once you're born of God, you're God's now it's the "ENJOYMENT" of the relationship before us. and God have ways to deal with us as "sons" if we get out of fellowship. listen, Hebrews 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

and God know how to whip us, and it's not with a strap or switch.... (if you know what I mean).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[CharismaticLady]

understand, a child might go a anti socal and even kill. notice that act, (like sin), can never chang the relationship of parent and child. but might affect the "ENJOYMENT" of that relationship. see it now.

I doubt that God enjoys casting anyone into the lake of fire. And a good parent will call the police.

so my first qiestion, why have a start and eventually a finish of our Faith is it's so instance. see the Just, those declared Rightious must... must... must live by Faith.
Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
is not perfection is what you're speaking of.... sanctification? be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect? see it now, the adding, the learning, the finding out.

Did you not read the progression from faith to love in 2 Peter 1:5-7? Why are you arguing with me on this? The passage is clear that this is a process, a progression. From what? Sin? No! The maturity of perfection to being like Christ.

Sorry, you're not exactly arguing, but not seeing what the verses are about. It is very clear.

 

[justbyfaith]

Unless we had perfect discernment ourselves with regard to the heart of everyone else, how could we recognize a sinless person when we met one?

I didn't say sinless...I said perfect.

I have never met anyone who thinks god does not see their sin this is odd to me

It is the whole concept of imputed righteousness. God credits to the account of the ungodly person, His righteousness, because of their faith (Romans 4:5).

Their lives show it...and they say they are saved. Living together outside of marriage, doing worldly things and such. These are the ones I am speaking about who think that God no longer sees their sin but see Jesus instead.
I can only see God seeing Jesus if He is actually IN us.

Of course, someone who is truly born again of the Holy Spirit will have a changed life.

In declaring the ungodly person righteous, I do believe that the Lord creates a new reality (Romans 4:17); for it is impossible for the Lord to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2).

But He does declare the ungodly person righteous; giving them a new identity that cannot be altered by ungodly behaviour, that they are righteous before Him. The exhortation, then, is, "Go and live like your new identity."

Your fundamental premise that after a person is saved they CANNOT sin is false.

Yet it seems to be one of the apostle John's fundamental premises also (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).