Heaven is not literal in Rev 21 and 22?Of course. You think the beast with bears paws, horns, spots, a mouth like a lion and looking like a leopard is literal?
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Heaven is not literal in Rev 21 and 22?Of course. You think the beast with bears paws, horns, spots, a mouth like a lion and looking like a leopard is literal?
I just showed you where this place with lava is, it's in the "heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40, 1 Peter 3:19), heart definition means "the central or innermost part of something.". Science teaches us that lava is in the heart of the earth which is apparent from the volcanic activity. There are many verses biblical that speak of such a place (Luke 16:23-24).
The old testament is speaking of wars of cities, and the burning bodies are nothing more than war atrocities. You are mis-interpreting it and making it into something else, which I find happens a lot with verses in the bible I find, we must look first at passages literal, and if literal makes no sense then figurative. But you've got into a language paradox apparently. The image of war atrocity is hell.
You are undoubtedly not the only one to so vouch for his own ways.You're welcome. Always ready and willing to share my incontestable, irrefutable, indisputable and infallible opinion.
And our God is still a consuming fire! Who does He consume?So Sodom is still burning?
Rich Man and Lazarus
Was anybody in heaven when Jesus said this, how could they get there without the blood of Jesus being shed first ?
Oh.... I don't see it that there is different levels of hell either, one hotter than the other.
Blood is for Forgiveness.
Blood of animals, before Jesus.
Profession of Belief is for Salvation.
Level- pit indicates deeper
Division- great gulf
Separation- Comfort/Torments
Glory to God,
Taken
Eliminate hell, then eliminate heaven....Imagine again walking over on top of all those under our feet in the Earth hell resting place.
Such a happy place knowing maybe some of those close to us is down there screaming for the rest of our life.
But.....something not right about this.
Will there really be a new earth where no more pain exist anywhere ?
No, we aren't joking, except for the incontestable irrefutable infallible indisputable part. If I didn't think I was right in those things I accept as truth, I'd accept something else. But that doesn't mean we don't keep searching and be willing to be reachable by others who know better. Nor does it mean we are necessarily wrong.You are undoubtedly not the only one to so vouch for his own ways.
I believe me as well.
Are we really joking?
Great question. Except I'd put it another way. What does He consume? He consumes everything that is not in harmony with holiness. Not because He goes about deliberately destroying everything He dislikes, but because He is so holy nothing survives in His presence unless it's of the same nature... Which was why we were created in His image and able to walk with Him in the garden. Sin stuffed that up. So in order to walk with Him again we need to get rid of sin. The bible describes those that survive the fire.And our God is still a consuming fire! Who does He consume?
You don't believe in "eternal" life for Christians? It's the same Greek word for "eternal" punishment.In order to correctly understand this issue, you must first comprehend the idea of mortality. To prove that for ever... Everlasting... And eternal etc actually mean what you think they mean, you first have to prove that man is immortal. The man, despite being in flames as you think, has to be alive right in order to be tormented? So he lives "forever"? Yet God turfed Adam and Eve out of the garden so that they couldn't eat of the tree of life and become immortal sinners. Thus there is no such thing as an immortal sinner. Yet in order to live forever we need to be given life as a gift. Does the sinner get the same gift then? Sorry, there are way too many holes you can't explain.
See post#262Hell is the heart of the earth where the lava is. People that go to hell are cast there. We have numerous scriptures about the heart of the earth and also Jesus visiting there (Matthew 12:40). The lake of fire is described as eternal torment explicitly in the scriptures (Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10). You can deny the scriptures, but all of this is described in there. Hope this helps, much Love.
The eternal life for Christians comes as a gift. Are you saying sinners receive the same gift? Can they live eternally without that gift?You don't believe in "eternal" life for Christians? It's the same Greek word for "eternal" punishment.
Matthew 25:41 (ASV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46 (ASV)
46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
"they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"People who end up in the lake of fire are alive, and no-one is saying otherwise. Jesus said there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Only alive people do that right? The debate is over how long they are alive. And scripture is clear. Until they are destroyed. Each one suffering justly according to his works. Them they receive the final wages due their sin... They die.
What? How can you say "eternal life" for Christians is the "same gift" as eternity in Hell? You can't be serious.The eternal life for Christians comes as a gift. Are you saying sinners receive the same gift? Can they live eternally without that gift?
Then why does the NT say several times "eternal punishment"? If you are right it would simply say destroyed.I have said this before. Eternal punishment is correct. You are trying to make it eternal punishing. There is a big difference.
See post#262
Let's take a look at the context of that passage."they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"
It's you, not me, who is saying that sinners live for eternity in torment.What? How can you say "eternal life" for Christians is the "same gift" as eternity in Hell? You can't be serious.
Well great! If there is no eternal Hell we can do whatever we want and still have eternal peace.Let's take a look at the context of that passage.
KJV Revelation 20:7-15
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The two most significant things about this passage are...
1. It takes place at the end of the thousand years... That's 1000 years after the Resurrection of the righteous and the removal of God's people from the earth to heaven. This takes place at the second coming. So at the end of the millennium all those who are then resurrected, the second resurrection, are sinners. This is what Jesus referred to as the resurrection to damnation. So what happens,? They recognise first where they are. And that everything they had every heard about God, the gospel, sin and judgement, is true. And they are guilty. God showed them why. Their entire lives are played out for all to see. There is left no doubt in anyone's mind that they are being justly condemned. God is completely vindicated in all He had done. They realise that there is only one chance. To take over the throne of God through warfare. The New Jerusalem had just recently touched down upon the earth. It gets surrounded by "gog and magog", and no doubt at the insistence and with the assistance of Satan prepare to attack the city. God then sends fire down which engulfs them in a lake of burning which is unquenchable.
2. This takes place on the earth!!! This hell... This lake of fire... Is not under the earth and there's no-one in it now. It takes place on earth and we who are in the city are witnesses to the destruction. Some are tormented a short time, some a long time. No doubt the devil the longest. But all are punished justly according to their works. And when their time is up, they are burnt up. Ashes.
Does this burn for ever and ever and ever? NO! Because God creates a new heaven and a new Earth: the earth and it's city new Jerusalem become the capital of the universe.
KJV Revelation 21:1, 4-5
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
It is an affront to God to think that He is so powerless that He cannot deal with the sin problem and needs to immortalise it in the form of retribution.