Does ALL sins include "Past, Present and Future" sins?

[Randy Kluth]

See 1 Peter 1:11.

Didn't you read what I said? I said Christ was certainly *in the saints,* but did not dwell in them on a permanent basis. That remained until the atonement of Christ, which made this temporary indwelling permanent. That's why I hesitate to utilize the language of "dwelling," because it may imply to some that this was a full occupancy, replete with occupancy permit. ;)

The New Covenant provides the Holy Ghost because Jesus released His Spirit back to the Father in Luke 23:46.

The Holy Ghost was released into eternity and from there can descend to anywhere in time to come and indwell the hearts of any of those who would believe His testimony to them about Christ.

My point is that the Spirit of Christ, or the Holy Spirit, temporarily is in everybody to some degree, because God's word speaks to the hearts of all men. He does dwell in a fuller sense in the saints, who live in covenant relationship with God. But until Christ's atonement, this indwelling could never be said to have been permanent--not until the atonement of Christ.

We are said to have a great reward in heaven if we are like the Old Testament prophets (Matthew 5:10-12). I assume that Jesus is saying to us, there, that the Old Testament prophets were also sealed by the Holy Spirit and have a reward in heaven because they were truly born again. When Nicodemus didn't know what Jesus was talking about concerning being born again, Jesus acted surprised that Nicodemus was a teacher of Israel and didn't know that. It should have been common knowledge in Jesus' day...that was what God intended...but somehow the teachers of Israel missed it.

I agree with you. However, as I've been saying, the indwelling, or regular habitation, of the Spirit with the saints in the OT was technically a temporary dwelling. Not until Christ died for sin could that dwelling be viewed as "eternal."

I have no doubt that those who lived as saints in the OT had the Spirit dwelling with them in some way. And I have no doubt that the indwelling of God in them is now eternal. However, my point was and still is that the indwelling in the OT era could only be legally viewed as "temporary." Christ truly had to come and render that temporary indwelling an eternal indwelling.

OT saints had to pay a price to have God not just operate within them, to their conscience, but also to remain with them on a regular basis. The price they paid under the covenant of Law was to fulfill the requirements of the Law, depending on animal sacrifices, etc.

However, now that Christ has come, and has provided a better sacrifice for our sins, we no longer need the sacrifices of the Law. We can now view God's habitation with us as eternal, and no longer dependent upon the Law as a temporary shelter.

 

[justbyfaith]

Only prophets had the Holy Spirit in them,

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

King David would be considered by most to have been an Old Testament saint.

Yet he had the Holy Spirit (Psalms 51:11).

 

[justbyfaith]

Why would the Holy Spirit dwell in Old Testament saints at all if He were only going to dwell in them temporarily?

I believe that they were righteous because of their faith; in the Old Testament as well as the New.

And I believe that He also sealed them in the Old Testament.

Otherwise, when they went into Abraham's bosom, they would have gone in as unrighteous men and women.

But in order for Jesus to take captivity captive, those held captive would have to be righteous in Abraham's bosom in order to be taken up by the Lord when He did so.

I don't have much scripture on this at present; so I will say to you that it is only my opinion.

If you have scripture that supports the opposing viewpoint, by all means share it.

Otherwise, we will have to consider that scripture is silent on the subject.

 

[CharismaticLady]

King David would be considered by most to have been an Old Testament saint.

Yet he had the Holy Spirit (Psalms 51:11).

Sorry, kings are anointed by prophets, so yes, King David too.

 

[Truther]

Lol, dont understand a word you are saying

If they are commanded to repent after being already saved(made alive from the dead), and repentance is death(type), then they are re-dead.

 

[Truther]

Yes, "we are not saved by works" meant OT works.

Correct.

We are only saved per N.T. obedience to God's commands, beginning with obeying Acts 2:38.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Great questions.

It looks like verse 15 is your answer - he always knew, unlike other children. Butter is made from milk, so He could have always had these ingredients from when He was born. And it doesn't hurt to have been conceived from the seed of the Father God. Just like us who are baptized with His Spirit. 1 John 3:9; Romans 8:29-30.

And even though I was filled with the Spirit for many years, I learned complete obedience and awesome fear of the Lord from the things I suffered at the hands of an abusive husband. Jesus suffered mental torment, but didn't sin. Not even when He asked questions of the Father about "if there be any other way." But hearing nothing, He relented and obeyed. 1 John 5:14-15

Concerning ‘Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good’ and ‘Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered’

I’ve been thinking a lot about ‘taught of him’ with ‘yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered‘.

I’m sorry you suffered at the hand of an abusive husband. Yet you learned obedience through the things you suffered. The book of Job speaks much of this being taught (imo) but also tells who opens the ears or Unstops the ears to discipline and correction and mercy. Why do some suffer yet no matter how much suffering disobedience grows worse and worse? I struggle with words but mostly I’ve been considering this ‘being taught’ as not so much head or book smarts but taught by the things suffered (those hard teachings not soon to be forgotten). Been thinking how we can know tons of scriptures, aware of every theology known to man, yet without love, or mercy, or forgiveness what do we really know?

1 John 2:27-29 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. [29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

‘even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.’ John 15:5-11
—significant maybe is as it ‘taught you’ that “you shall abide in him”. Paul spoke of being taught of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Not receiving it of men but of God.

1 Thessalonians 4:7-9 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. [8] He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. [9] But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

taught of God to do what? ‘to love one another.’ Makes you wonder how many things taught are witnessing fruit ‘to love one another’ but instead the opposite?

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
...Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28 ...‘even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.’

Not even when He asked questions of the Father about "if there be any other way." But hearing nothing, He relented and obeyed. 1 John 5:14-

Never considered his question ‘if there be another way’. maybe he asked more for our benefit since He already said ‘I am the way.’ ...and hearing nothing, no other way given but “I am the way.” he submitted to Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

 

[brightfame52]

If they are commanded to repent after being already saved(made alive from the dead), and repentance is death(type), then they are re-dead.

You not making sense yu know !

 

[brightfame52]

Correct.

We are only saved per N.T. obedience to God's commands, beginning with obeying Acts 2:38.

I was saved by Christs obedience to Gods command Rom 5:19

 

[CharismaticLady]

Correct.

We are only saved per N.T. obedience to God's commands, beginning with obeying Acts 2:38.

I prefer to say "being saved" as we must endure to the end to actually be saved. There are too many warnings to believe in short-cuts, for without holiness no man shall see God. Matthew 7:21-23

 

[CharismaticLady]

Concerning ‘Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good’ and ‘Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered’

I’ve been thinking a lot about ‘taught of him’ with ‘yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered‘.

I’m sorry you suffered at the hand of an abusive husband. Yet you learned obedience through the things you suffered. The book of Job speaks much of this being taught (imo) but also tells who opens the ears or Unstops the ears to discipline and correction and mercy. Why do some suffer yet no matter how much suffering disobedience grows worse and worse? I struggle with words but mostly I’ve been considering this ‘being taught’ as not so much head or book smarts but taught by the things suffered (those hard teachings not soon to be forgotten). Been thinking how we can know tons of scriptures, aware of every theology known to man, yet without love, or mercy, or forgiveness what do we really know?

1 John 2:27-29 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. [29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

‘even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.’ John 15:5-11
—significant maybe is as it ‘taught you’ that “you shall abide in him”. Paul spoke of being taught of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Not receiving it of men but of God.

1 Thessalonians 4:7-9 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. [8] He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. [9] But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

taught of God to do what? ‘to love one another.’ Makes you wonder how many things taught are witnessing fruit ‘to love one another’ but instead the opposite?

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
...Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28 ...‘even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.’



Never considered his question ‘if there be another way’. maybe he asked more for our benefit since He already said ‘I am the way.’ ...and hearing nothing, no other way given but “I am the way.” he submitted to Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

You have a great understanding, sister!

 

[justbyfaith]

I prefer to say "being saved" as we must endure to the end to actually be saved. There are too many warnings to believe in short-cuts, for without holiness not man shall see God. Matthew 7:21-23

If we hear the words of Jesus and have a genuine faith in the Father who sent Him, we will in fact endure to the end...the scripture is clear that we shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death unto everlasting life (John 5:24 (kjv)).

 

[Truther]

You not making sense yu know !

You say they are buried alive, since you say they are saved before water baptism(burial).

 

[Truther]

I was saved by Christs obedience to Gods command Rom 5:19

No, you skipped Acts 2:38 and robbed the saints mail(epistles).

 

[CharismaticLady]

If we hear the words of Jesus and have a genuine faith in the Father who sent Him, we will in fact endure to the end...the scripture is clear that we shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death unto everlasting life (John 5:24 (kjv)).

Genuine is the key word! But our assurance is not positional as many teach, but is according to 1 John 3:21-24.

 

[justbyfaith]

Genuine is the key word! But our assurance is not positional as many teach, but is according to 1 John 3:21-24.

Right.

Everlasting life has to do with abiding (1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; see also Romans 11:20-22).

 

[brightfame52]

You say they are buried alive, since you say they are saved before water baptism(burial).

Still not making sense

 

[brightfame52]

No, you skipped Acts 2:38 and robbed the saints mail(epistles).

No I was saved by. Christ obedience Rom 5:19

 

[mailmandan]

No, you skipped Acts 2:38 and robbed the saints mail (epistles).

You are a one string banjo. Salvation by water baptism plink, plink...

Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Plain and simple.

 

[Truther]

Still not making sense

You teach born again, again.